REALITY

LegacyUser

Hi,

I have been looking at all the messages just now - as I am going back to Ireland soon - and the picture looks pretty grim from here.

But you guys have to keep some things in mind - Eircom/Esat etc. will run up huge losses for every line rented. I have heard this is the case in the US, and Deutsche Telekom is either taking a huge loss with its rollout of adsl or heavily subsidised.

The thing to keep in mind is that in such a small market as Ireland's - affordable adsl may be commercial suicide.

Thats just the way it is.

Dont't get me wrong though - at the mo I have enough bandwidth to supply a small country (10Mbps up/down) and the thoughts of 56k are NOT appealing.

Anyway keep up the lobbying - Ireland needs highspeed connections - if only to get the latest ripped american DVDs

j.

LegacyUser

I hope that one of the things that comes out of the campaign will be an understanding of the economics of the situation. My opinion is that ADSL is not so much loss making but rather that it takes away profits from more expensive yet obsolete services.

My big gripe is that the national infrastructure, heavily subsidised by the tax-payer, is being used in a very old-fashioned way.

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Skeptic1:
My big gripe is that the national infrastructure, heavily subsidised by the tax-payer, is being used in a very old-fashioned way.</font>

Extract from IrelandOffline letter to Alfie Kane:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> "We are concerned that the current negotiations for the sale of Eircom have focussed primarily on financial issues. We believe that Eircom’s ownership of the national telecommunications infrastructure means that it has a responsibility to the people of this country to ensure that these resources are developed to their full potential." </font>

Also, from IrelandOffline letter to Communication Workers Union:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"In regard to the current takeover negotiations that are going on in regard to Eircom, your members already have a significant influence and this looks set to increase significantly.
Most of the focus on the negotiations has been on the commercial impact of the various bids. We would, however, make an appeal to your members to also take account of the wider needs of the people of this country." </font>

Martin Harran

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Skeptic1:
I hope that one of the things that comes out of the campaign will be an understanding of the economics of the situation. My opinion is that ADSL is not so much loss making but rather that it takes away profits from more expensive yet obsolete services.

My big gripe is that the national infrastructure, heavily subsidised by the tax-payer, is being used in a very old-fashioned way.</font>

I couldn't agree with you more. And although xDSL services require initial investment, doesn't everything? A company has to think about the future, not the present. What Eircon appear to be doing is squeezing every last drop of profit out of terribly old technology, without giving a rats ass about the future.

LegacyUser

This just in from my brother in the USA:
"...I looked at the site you sent on the telecom rates in Ireland - WOW!!! I got something in the mail (snail) from AT&T the other day offering unlimited internet access for $7 per month plus long distance
@ .07 cents per minute."

LegacyUser

>> A company has to think about the future, not the present.

Yup, and I guess eircom are doing that, I am sure they got relatively smart people in there looking at how to maximise profits 24/7. If they didn't their shareholders would boot them out.

>> What Eircon appear to be doing is squeezing every last drop of profit out of terribly old technology.

If thats the case - they are entitled to do exactly that! Of course dsl will come sooner or later, when investment ensures future profits.

As for AT&T and the US - there is a population of well over 200 million people over there, compared to our 4 million (rounded up ). I.e. the economies of scale are HUGE!! And even with that huge market, US ISPs are making a loss with broadband.


Actually I think broadband can only be bad for the Irish economy - think of how poor old HMV's sales would plummet.

But seriously though - the only real good use for phat bandwidth is piracy - we all know it

j.

LegacyUser

I can't agree with you on the piracy bit. The minority of users will use it to pirate copyrighted material. In your post, you seem to be suggesting that people are happy to wait 10-30+ seconds for a web page to download.

Other arguments for broadband include business applications, streaming digital video, and many more.

LegacyUser

>>> Other arguments for broadband include business applications, streaming digital video, and many more.

Name me one (necessary) business application you know, that would need broadband! Don't businesses also have to chance to buy subscriber lines at the moment? - admittedly at high prices, but they got the money.

I agree with you on streaming digital video - but digital video is soo much better when your watching decent actors

Lets face it - Napster rocked - it was the first killer broadband app - Gnutella etc. are continuing that.

As for slow webpages - I get some of that too, alot of the time its the web servers that aren't up to scratch themselves. But its been along time since I used a modem - so you prob have a point there.


j.

dahamsta

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Name me one (necessary) business application you know, that would need broadband!</font>

I don't know if you could define them as "necessary", but here's a few examples that would help businesses cut costs and become more productive:

Teleconferencing: Cut costs on telephone charges.

Videoconferencing: Can be much more effective than teleconferencing.

Document transfer and collaboration: Quicker document transfer would make it easier and quicker for people to collaborate.

Those are just off the top of my head. Personally, I would be more productive with always-on access, rather than broadband.

adam

[This message has been edited by dahamsta (edited 17-06-2001).]

LegacyUser

"Don't businesses also have to chance to buy subscriber lines at the moment? - admittedly at high prices, but they got the money."

You can say the bit about the high price again! A 512kbps leased line costs AT LEAST £32 000+ in the west. I don't see your average SME being able to afford that. It simply makes Ireland less competitive. For example, I run a web hosting and design business, and I was forced to rent rack space outside Ireland instead of getting a leased line here.

"Name me one (necessary) business application you know, that would need broadband!"

dahamsta covered some already, so I won't go into detail. However, you could draw an analogy here. For example, why take a plane to America when you can go by boat? Sure, it'll take a while to get there, but hey, it works! And another one: If you want to travel from, say, Sligo to Dublin, you could technically walk. Then again, you could take the train. Both work.

Keyword: convenience. Broadband is just much more convenient.

[This message has been edited by Urban Weigl (edited 18-06-2001).]