Tenders sought for BMW region WiFi trials

Xian

Wireless internet set to go on trial
Sunday Tribune, February 2 2003

The Borders and Midwest Regional Assembly will spend €240,000 on a wireless broadband internet trial for towns that are too small to qualify for existing funding. The assembly has asked local groups to put together partnerships with telecoms operators to install wireless internet equipment in three towns in the region.

The funding has come from the European Regional Development Fund and will be used to back three community organisation-led projects in towns with fewer than 2,000 inhabitants.

"The national development plan identified 123 towns that they will target for broadband projects and the metropolitan loops that are just being built," said Gerry Finn, director of the BMW regional assembly.

"What we are trying to do is look at a wireless solution for towns that are smaller than that, probably under 2,000 people."

Wireless internet technology is being promoted as a cheaper way of delivering high-bandwidth internet connectivity to rural regions than the more traditional method of digging up roads and laying telecoms fibre pipes. The BMW assembly programme is designed to test whether or not there is enough demand for broadband in rural towns to justify building more networks.

"We don't know what the demand is. We are relying on people in the local area who know the local businesses to find out who the potential customers are," said Finn.

The tenders require local groups such as chambers of commerce, town councils and local businesses to be part of the applications for funding along with telecommunications providers. "We are trying to do this on a community developmnent level," said Finn.

yellum

Originally posted by Xian
[B
The tenders require local groups such as chambers of commerce, town councils and local businesses to be part of the applications for funding along with telecommunications providers. "We are trying to do this on a community developmnent level," said Finn.[/i] [/B]

Now that bit I like. Hopefully they'll consult the various groups that are part of IrishWan for their input at least. Its the community thats going to gain from this so it should definetly be community minded.

iwb

It is also unlikely that the operators that got the largest chunk of the E260k given out last week will get ANY of this money.
This is the way these things should be done.

Xian

The BMW Regional Assembly is here. The call for proposals is Expression of Interest for Wireless Internet Services in the BMW Region (word doc), specifically:

Expressions of Interest are being sought by the Border, Midland and Western Regional Assembly from small towns/rural areas in association with licensed Telecom service providers to pilot the supply of a wireless Internet service to selected towns and communities in the BMW Region. Proposals facilitated by local development bodies and agencies in association with communities and Telecoms providers will also be considered.

The expression of Interest document should provide a description of how it is proposed to establish and operate a cost effective, sustainable wireless broadband service to the small town/rural area and should take cognisance of the need for a high level of buy-in from local businesses, public service providers and householders in the community.

In order to be eligible to submit an expression of interest, the following eligibility criteria must be complied with:

• Evidence of level of demand in the selected town/community.
• Rural Towns/ Communities with population of less than 2000 will be considered, provided that they are not included in the list of 123 towns that are to be provided with broadband services under the E-Commerce and Communications Measure of the National Development Plan 2000-2006.
• All regulatory and licensing requirements must be complied with.
• Projects must be technically feasible and provide for connecting to the backbone networks.
• Financial solvency of the proposal must be demonstrated and a clear financing plan provided.
• Proposals should be inclusive with services accessible and affordable to all sections of the community.
• Proposals should provide for marketing, promotion, network and customer support.

yellum

Originally posted by Xian
in association with licensed Telecom service providers to pilot the supply of a wireless Internet service to selected towns and communities in the BMW Region.

Oh crud. Licensed Telecom Service Providers being ?? Whats their defintion of association. Would just getting bandwidth from them work as that ? I'd hate to see O2 and Esat get more money for Wireless Lans. Its not as if they're going to give massive discounts for these projects.

mayhem#

Originally posted by yellum
Hopefully they'll consult the various groups that are part of IrishWan for their input at least. Its the community thats going to gain from this so it should definetly be community minded.

Maybe the various WAN's should actively approach them and request to be consulted.
There seems to be a tendency to sit around and pontificate about not being consulted....

E.

P.S. That's not aimed at you personally....

iwb

Originally posted by yellum
Oh crud. Licensed Telecom Service Providers being ??

Anyone who holds a license as a telecomms operator. There are dozens of them. It is not inconceivable that the towns themselves apply to be operators for the E2,500 that it costs. In fact, I have heard that the fee will go away in the near future anyway.

yellum

Originally posted by mayhem#


P.S. That's not aimed at you personally....

Hehe, We're already working with a group anyway so it'd be inaccurate

spongebob

The BMW region has only 2 or 3 pops for leased lines....unless the ESB is going to change that. These pops are where a leased line may b connected to these licenced telcos that must be included in a funding proposal. Dont assume that the presence of fibre in the area means that there is a pop there. Galway Athlone and Sligo are the only ones AFAIK see link below.
In that scenario I will assume the following

1. Each project gets €80k
2. Each project requires 2 Mbit so the IP port (the bandwidth to the internet) costs €20k-€25k
3. The BIG variable is the tail, the line from the POP to the town.
4. These tails are almost all Eircom copper. The cost per Km of an eircom tail is shocking. we are talking €300k per annum per KM and then €100 per KM see Here

M

mayhem#

CorkWAN has their **** together alright...

E.

yellum

Originally posted by Muck

Therefore I can confidently predict that the process will be skwed towards towns within 20Km of the Pops

Unless the County Councils / Local Authorities, Chambers or Commerce or some local Enterprise boards decide to help out and contribute ??

yellum

Originally posted by mayhem#
CorkWAN has their **** together alright...

I didn't imply that ! We're getting there though.

mayhem#

It's funny though how the quality of any of the WAN's seem to be inversersly (?!) related to the frequency of it's members posting on mailing lists, bulletin boards and the like....

E.

dahamsta

There can be no question about the quality of our WAN. We haven't got one.

heh

adam

OHP

Again I feel that this sorth of post should be in another group. Wireless? or whatever.


OHP

yellum

Originally posted by OHP
Again I feel that this sorth of post should be in another group. Wireless? or whatever.

:rolleyes:

This is on topic in here. There is constant discussion about last mile technologies in this forum and its a well known fact that rolling out to the last mile is a major problem.

These tenders that are being sought are for just this. It is of interest to all those posters that come here on a regular basis and live in these BMW regions. These tenders could directly affect some of the IOFFL contributors access to broadband. Also some of the contributors here could in fact help with these tenders and help change the face of broadband in their area.

So all in all, this is definetly on topic. Plus it was posted by an IOFFL committee member so I think they'd know whats on topic in the forum.

sceptre

Quite a lot of tech posts are relevant here, even if the actual tech isn't up and running here. It's fair to say that some of them would be just as relevant in Nets/Comms or Wireless but because they could potentially make a difference to members internet access we leave them here (because they're relevant, not because we're lazy:))

Tech problems are almost always moved to the relevant forum. We do patrol fairly regularly - I may miss one day in twenty (including one last week but I doubt anyone noticed), Dustaz is as regular. The litmus test is relevancy, actual or potential.

Xian

Originally posted by Muck
The BMW region has only 2 or 3 pops for leased lines. These pops are where a leased line may b connected to these licenced telcos that must be included in a funding proposal. Dont assume that the presence of fibre in the area means that there is a pop there. Galway Athlone and Sligo are the only ones AFAIK.

According to the Western Development Commission (Update on Telecoms in the Western Region), there are also PoPs at Letterkenny and Carrick-on-Shannon. BMW counties not covered in the WDC report are Cavan, Monaghan, Louth, Longford, Westmeath (Athlone already mentioned), Offaly and Laois - are there any there (doubtful)?

...unless the ESB is going to change that.

Now that's the /real/ variable. The Northern Ring is due to be available from October 2003 (give or take a few months - the Southern Ring was three months late). Too late for a project to be proposed that depended on it. There is also /no/ information online as to how and where you can connect to it.

The BIG variable is the tail, the line from the POP to the town.

I want /solutions/ dammit, not problems ;-)

How do you get over the tail costs? Is there existing ducting, line-of-sight, a carrier pigeon service? A lot depends on where the town is. I've done some random juggling and, based on a few variables*, there are about 100 towns who would be in line to benefit from this. Next thing to do is discount those too far from a PoP.

* New Connections is to cover all 123 towns with a population of 1,500 or more, so based on the fact that it is the largest town possible that will maximize demand, I've taken the recent CSO statistics on population and removed all towns not in the BMW region or with a population above 1,500 or below 1,000 - completely arbitrary, I know, but it's to get a general idea of likely candidates.

spongebob

Originally posted by Xian
[B
...unless the ESB is going to change that.

Now that's the /real/ variable. There is also /no/ information online as to how and where you can connect to it.

The BIG variable is the tail, the line from the POP to the town.

I want /solutions/ dammit, not problems ;-)

How do you get over the tail costs? Is there existing ducting, line-of-sight, a carrier pigeon service? A lot depends on where the town is. I've done some random juggling and, based on a few variables*, there are about 100 towns who would be in line to benefit from this. Next thing to do is discount those too far from a PoP.

Some interesting factoids.

My information is that Chorus will lose a chunk of bandwidth , currently allocated to them for WLL and Broadband (I know it says Narrowband but look at page 6 of this restatement of their remaining licence Here along with the revisions late last year Here . Eircom also had revisions but not in the lower wavelengths whch are the most useful ones. Note that Eircom's slab of bandwidth is also up for review in the next few months.

Officially Chorus lose these licences anyway on the 16/06/03 , as Comreg say, but I hear that Comreg are taking them back on the 01/03/03 in the BMW counties where Chorus have not rolled any WLL or Broadband out. Chorus may retrench to Limerick / Cork/ Dublin this month.....there are rumours that they are trying to save some of their bandwidth.

Once the useless Chorus have been removed from the equation, a slab of bandswith around either 2.5 or 3.5 Ghz will be immediately available for Broadband . This can be allocated to the ESB or to a county specific organisation that will provide Broadband services rather than squat ona lcience doing nothing as Chorus , ESAT and Eircom have done.

I also posted a link to a story about some new Tech in the 5.8Ghz band which has not been allocated to anybody ....it could be announced any day now

It seems that a combination of

a) Judicious confiscation of bandwidth from squatters
b) New technological developments (2.4 2.5 3.5 and 5.8 Ghz bands)
c) Reallocation of these wavelength licences on a use it or lose it basis
d) ...vaguely...... rumoured fiscal incentives (tax breaks) in the Finance Act to be published shortly...Clár areas maybe ?
e) A proliferation of pops thanks to the ESB
f) The new USO in July capping the tail length from a POP at 50- miles and no more .......nationally

May all make wireless a viable proposition in the course of the next year.

We'll see.

M

BigEejit

May all make wireless a viable proposition in the course of the next year.

/me rubs hands ...

Is there a chance that eircom may find itself disconnecting customers all up and down the country because they dont want their over-priced under-supported 56k product anymore ... :cool:

spongebob

Write to Chorus today, demand Powernet Broadband by the 28/02/2003.....in writing now ya hear.

M

skrobe

check this out , mobiles extra bandwith may be used.
j


http://www.comreg.ie/docs/ComReg0313.doc

spongebob

See this bit of the doc linked by Skrobe , page 12

It should also be noted that the Commission intends to introduce in 2003 a licensing scheme for Fixed Wireless Access in the 26 GHz and 10.5 GHz bands as well as a limited scheme at 3.5Ghz to enhance the rate of delivery of broadband services in Ireland. This scheme will operate on a first come first served, per base station basis. The Commission proposes to publish details of this scheme in early 2003.

The 3.5Ghz spectrum they refer to is the spectrum they are taking off Chorus and it is happening in early 2003

Wheeeeeeeeee !

I am left with the impression that the Broadband services in the GSM 900 and the GSM 1800 bands, referred to in the document will be offered by the existing Mobile Operators from existing Base Stations on ecisting Spectrum that they already have ....... in a manner that does not interfere with the day job...so to speak.

It will not be offered to other operators.

Anyone know anything about this ?

M