Ban Smoking

Dustaz

Since the whole no smoking pubs thing is back on the agenda, I thought id trot out my favorite smoking idea on Humanites rather than After hours to get some opinions of more than 2 lines and a smiley

First off, Im a heavy smoker. I am totally against the whole non-smoking pubs idea, but thats not what this thread is about, so refer to after hours for that.

So the governemt wants to stop smoking in pubs and public places to protect non-smokers. They put warnings on packs and tax fags to the hilt. Theres ads on the tv, radio and press all warning that smoking kills. Smoking has no real beneficial effects and is highly dangerous, yet somehow it is still legal.

Why not ban it alltogether.

If the governemnt were serious about 'protecting' the citizens in the long term then they would ban the sale of cigarettes alltogether.

1. All smokers register as smokers and recieve some sort of little card.
2. Sale of cigarettes and all forms of advertising and sponsorship banned. (sorry folks, gonna have to find a harder target to tax)
3. Cigarettes available from licensed and regulated "Smoke Shops" to registered smokers. (maybe even chemists, how ironic would that be)

Obviously, there would be an explosion in the sales of blackmarket tobacco that would last a long time. However, This is not a short term plan, this is something that would take 10 years or more. As time goes on less and less people are smoking due to people giving up, dieing and a lack of new smokers.

I realise that this is almost exactly the same situation as hard drugs, but being honest theres a LOT more incentive to do some heroin than there is to smoke. There is also a LOT less heroin addicts than tobacco addicts.

Anyway, opinions?

ozpass

Carrying a 'smokers identity card' (as I would have to) strikes me as a little Orwellian. It's yet another register containing information that might very well be used for discrimination. Identifying smokers in this way (together with the justification that an all-out ban would generate) might cause employers to exclude candidates for employment based on their tobacco addiction. There are many more examples that might adhere to this model.

One thing it would achieve is me packing in the fags. Might be a good idea so......

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well, I don't like cigarettes.. but I do enjoy the odd joint. so I'm not sure if I'm anti smoking or not

Xterminator

Originally posted by Dustaz

So the governemt wants to stop smoking in pubs and public places to protect non-smokers. They put warnings on packs and tax fags to the hilt. Theres ads on the tv, radio and press all warning that smoking kills. Smoking has no real beneficial effects and is highly dangerous, yet somehow it is still legal.

Why not ban it alltogether.

I think the point here is that smokers can choose to smoke if they wish.
The banning of smoking in public places is designed to prevent the smokers from forcing other people to have to inhale there smoke involuntarily.
I.E. It protects others (the bar workers, the resturant staff, etc) from the harmfull effects of your chosen vice.

The governemnt is not proposing to say you cant choose to smoke. There is a difference, though it is possible that one day they will ban smoking altogether.


X

MiCr0

i've no problem with ppl smoking - kill your self if you want

but smoking in public places (restraunts esp) bugs me a lot

i don't think a smokers card is even plausable

we could get them to have a symbol on thier clothes maybe - some sort of star perhaps????

somehow i don't think so

Shinji

Our society is gradually moving towards being more liberal about what people do with their bodies - this would be a step in the wrong direction completely. What the government legislation on smoking is about is protecting people from the excesses of others (passive smoking) and making sure that those who do smoke understand the risks of their behaviour. Actually banning cancersticks outright is a step beyond that, and a step backwards for the progress of our society imo.

amp

As recent convert to the non-smoking way, I think all smokers should be shot and killed.

/me foams at mouth

Yeah.

But tbh though, smokers are a dying breed (heh) and as the proportion of smokers to non-smokers changes it's enivatable that eventually smoking will be banned in most places.

I do however think that this is yet another way the government have of deflecting attention away from other problems in society, like not giving Disabled people more money and instead planning to buy more Government Jets.

/me spits foam at Bertie

Yeah.

Victor

I think the prblem with banning smoking is it is already legal. Banning it would bring in all the arguments for legalising hash. It is easier to restrict it's use than an outright ban. I'm sure there will be further steps, like insisting on matt grey finishes on the boxes and furthering marketing bans (point of sale and minor advertising / sponsorship).

Originally posted by ozpass
It's yet another register containing information that might very well be used for discrimination.

Well they could just look for the yellow finger stains, wheezing cough and the bad breath. And they do discriminate already (and rightly so).

Wook

I am a smoker ! (damn sounds like a therapy group)
have nothing against the reasoning behind banning.
I don't want other people to suffer from my smoke.
But just allow us to have a puff in a smokers only pub or something? And how the hell am I suppose to make my joints now ? 100% pure ? Anti-smoking laws are made to protect the people that choose not to pick up this awful habit.
Once again , I want my money back of all the taxes I paid for roads, traffic costs and everything people take for granted and still pollute the air ..yes I am talking about your 'Car'. The car you use to do groceries a street further down the road. The car you use sitting all by yourself every morning instead of sharing. Every time I walk in the city I see exhaust pipes fuming away..yet nobody seems to care..is this not a breach in your 'right' to have clean fresh air as well ?

(ok to make things clear, for all the idiots that will post against my 'car' entry. I do not want to go back to horses and cart.. what i am saying is that the car is often used, pure for pleasure or entertainment. Out of laziness, and be honest...it's so easy right ?)

-small edit-
I do not care about smoke , or exhausts for i live in the city and this is kinda expected these days, if i need clean air , i just go sit in a forest or something. what i do care about is the people that argue so much and loud , just because they have another target group to moan about and has nothing to do with health risks at all.

Xterminator

Originally posted by Wook
I am a smoker ! (damn sounds like a therapy group)
have nothing against the reasoning behind banning.
I don't want other people to suffer from my smoke.
But just allow us to have a puff in a smokers only pub or something? And how the hell am I suppose to make my joints now ? 100% pure ? Anti-smoking laws are made to protect the people that choose not to pick up this awful habit.
Once again , I want my money back of all the taxes I paid for roads, traffic costs and everything people take for granted and still pollute the air ..yes I am talking about your 'Car'. The car you use to do groceries a street further down the road. The car you use sitting all by yourself every morning instead of sharing. Every time I walk in the city I see exhaust pipes fuming away..yet nobody seems to care..is this not a breach in your 'right' to have clean fresh air as well ?
-.

To draw a comparision between the dangers of passive smoking, and general pollution is inaccutate.

I cannot think of anyone who is forced to inhale exhaust fumes in an enclosed environment, in order to do there job!
Yet many thousands of Irish workers are forced to inhale ciggarette smoke, in the course of there day. (And children in the homes, which I feel should be the next group to be protected.)

Perhaps it has escaped your notice, but recent evidence, documented on TV, showed that each ciggarette smoked, does damage.

X


PS as for you car remarks, Wook, have you ever heard of catyletic converters?
Have you noticed leaded petrol's phasing out?
The new stringent laws car manufactureres must meet for emissions?

To imply nothing is being done about car pollution is untrue.

It is just a seperate issue.

Wook

Xterminator:

The reason why most of the people want to ban smoking or limit it is because of health risks right ? Are you telling me that a normal traffic congestion in inner-city Dublin is harmless ?

and yes we all know that cigarettes does damage, i completly agree!, but damn if i need a little bit of harm now and then.

And what Tv says must be true ! but no mentioning about air polution from other sources that affect you as much as any other..maybe you missed that one on TV ?!

Your quote: 'PS as for you car remarks, Wook, have you ever heard of catyletic converters?
Have you noticed leaded petrol's phasing out?
The new stringent laws car manufactureres must meet for emissions?
To imply nothing is being done about car pollution is untrue.'

yups heard all about it , but i still dare you to suck an exhaust pipe of any ordinary Irish car...then you can tell me again about 'catyletic converters'

Specky

Originally posted by MiCr0
we could get them to have a symbol on thier clothes maybe - some sort of star perhaps????

According to "Nico" they already have that:rolleyes:

The pollution argument is a bit of a "straw clutcher" in my opinion. I could buy it if you were forced to sit less than a foot away from some truck's exhaust pipe all day but, really, just because you can smell it doesn't mean you're breathing in tons of toxic waste.

I travel about town a fair bit and I never come home to realise my clothes smell of "pollution", but spend an hour in the pub and I am wearing that lovely essence of ashtray.

My wife smokes, most of her family smoke. There are young children in the family who live in smoking households who suffer from respiratory problems and it irritates the crap out of me that the parents are "so concerned" about this but won't make the rather obvious connection (rant rant rave rant...etc).

I'd love tobacco to just disappear tomorrow but it won't. A ban in any form is going to be difficult to enforce.

I like the idea of being a registered smoker but it would be competely un-enforceable. Look at how many black market fags are around already.

One thing I can't really understand is that nobody is producing a legal and safe tobaco alternative. Surely the industry is worth enough to develop something? OK so you have the problem of how you define and prove that the new product is "safe", but it just strikes me that it would be something worth considering.

What "packing it in" techniques have worked for people on the list?

Xterminator

Originally posted by Wook
Xterminator:

The reason why most of the people want to ban smoking or limit it is because of health risks right ? Are you telling me that a normal traffic congestion in inner-city Dublin is harmless ?
....................................
Your quote: 'PS as for you car remarks, Wook, have you ever heard of catyletic converters?
Have you noticed leaded petrol's phasing out?
The new stringent laws car manufactureres must meet for emissions?
To imply nothing is being done about car pollution is untrue.'

yups heard all about it , but i still dare you to suck an exhaust pipe of any ordinary Irish car...then you can tell me again about 'catyletic converters'

I see you read the PS note at the end of my post.

But you must have missed, ignored or misunderstood the whole thrust of my main point.

I cannot think of anyone who is forced to inhale exhaust fumes in an enclosed environment, in order to do there job!

Yet many thousands of Irish workers are forced to inhale ciggarette smoke, in the course of there day.

Perhaps you would care to address the issue, not draw parallels to other issues that for the above reason dont really have an bearing on this topic.

kaimera

Wook,

your comparing car fumes and smoking.

You sit in your garage [closed] with your car running and see what happens.

This the same ****ing thing as having to sit in a room with someone smoking.

Both are seriously damaging to your health and WILL kill you.

Personally i've been smoking for the last 14, almost 15 years. I've never really put too much effort into stopping, since i never really cared what it did to my body.

However, lately (in the last 2 months or so) i've been considering giving them up. Not for health reasons or such, simply because there is such an anti-movement towards smoking. Just think, if you're single, you're blocking out nearly a 1/4 of all females you might meet, since they don't smoke or hate the stuff.

I'm giving up, because i'm curious what life will be like without them. Not because some stupid government decides to bring in a ban on smoking in pubs.

Thing is, this is a dodgy issue. On one hand you have non-smokers who should have the right to be in a pub and not have to breath in smoke, however on the other hand, by bringing in these laws they're restricting the rights of the smoker. When this came up before, a few years ago, i was very angry at the suggestion, since i didn't feel like being shoved into a corner if i wished to continue smoking.

Smokers are a dying breed. Its only the stupid that start it up nowadays, and most of em kick the habit by the time they're 25 (speaking of my experience with friends & their children). This could have the opposite effect of making smoking "cool" again.

BKtje

But so what if it makes smoking 'cool' again, It would then be done (if it was banned totally) by teenagers/young adults. (at least for cool reason.)

We wouldnt have it in our pubs, restaurants, busses. etc
Let them be cool as long as they are cool far away from me.

Xterminator

[

Originally posted by klaz
Thing is, this is a dodgy issue. On one hand you have non-smokers who should have the right to be in a pub and not have to breath in smoke, however on the other hand, by bringing in these laws they're restricting the rights of the smoker. When this came up before, a few years ago, i was very angry at the suggestion, since i didn't feel like being shoved into a corner if i wished to continue smoking.

What rights would they be?
Since when has smoking been a right? Perhaps Amnesty international could add that to their list of rights abuses taking place around the world?

Lets see, right to life, right to educations, right to freedom of speech, right to freedom to smoke .... perhaps you should run for election, on that platform eh?

Seriously though, your right to smoke, must be right up there with youre right to take the entire 24 paracetemol tablets at the same time in a packet, yes?

Seriously though, your right to smoke, must be right up there with youre right to take the entire 24 paracetemol tablets at the same time in a packet, yes?

yup. & also up there with your right to live in a smoke free environment.

Regardless i'll be off smoking come friday. so its all academic now.

Greenbean

Dustaz why did you start this thread? honestly?

PunyHuman

Hello to all of you.

First off, let me say that I'm in favour of this legislation even though I am a smoker. For once the government are not doing something for the genuine good of the people and are not being deeply hypocritical.

But my opinion is that, in this case, the law will be enforced in the same way as it is in San Francisco, where all the fancy bars are strictly n/s, but the dives are about 50/50 and you never know until later in the night whether management will tolerate smoking.

Unless pubs here start coying their Californian counterparts and putting ancient rickety garden furniture outside for the smokers, we'll be left in the ridiculous position (familiar to myself) in which desperate smokers have to stand across the doorway with their pint on the inside and their fag on the outside.

Or else we could all just go knacker drinking. All year round.

PunyHuman

Clearly, I meant that the government ARE doing something for the good of the people. Let's put that one down to first-time jitters.

RainyDay

we could get them to have a symbol on thier clothes maybe

They already have this - They stink!