Satelite Rural Service

zAbbo

I was looking for a future net solution, when i came across this

Broadband is Here!

If you feel you’re paying too much for Internet access or are fed up waiting for broadband technologies webworks.ie can now offer a satellite solution. This two-way system is available throughout Ireland, in areas where eircom don't offer isdn! It provides speeds of 128k upload and 512k download. There is a recurring fixed fee of €115 per month for single users. Installation and equipment costs €1,450.


http://www.webworks.ie/?fr=/indexnews.php&newsid=16

Now this service is offered from Monaghan(where im from), is there any other services like this, what are the prices etc.

DSL is not an option for me, neither is ISDN(not that id want it)

So....help?

kae

I work for the company you mentioned (webworks), so you can treat this post as biased if you wish.

As far as I know, there is only one other company offering something similar in Ireland - and that company is based in Cork. There are other resalers of the same technology, but the company in Cork stands out to me because they go about it a different way than we do. I don't remember the company's name, and I don't remember the names of any other resellers (terrible saleman, aren't I - but then again, I'm actually just a coder).

To compare the two, we ask for a lump sum of 1,450 up front to pay for the hardware, followed by a monthly fee of about 115 per month. The Cork company does not ask for a lump sum up front, but asks for about 250 per month.

To decide which is better, you have to think about how long you are going to keep this technology before moving onto something else. If you want the technology for only ten months, then it is cheaper to go for the Cork company (10x250=2500 vs 1450+(10x115)=2600). Unfortunately, I'd guess the Cork company requires a lease of at least a year, which makes our offer cheaper (12x250=3000 vs 1450+(12x115)=2830).

If you think you'll keep the technology for 3 years, for example, you would pay 3000 per year for the 250 per month one, versus an average of about 1860 per year for our offer.

Your choice... but I believe we are about the cheapest resellers of this technology.

As to the actual performance of the beast:
Downloading is pretty zippy for large files, but there is always a slight delay before the transfer starts - the main ISP is located in Germany, so the requests go via satellite to Germany, and the reply comes from Germany via satellite. It's not great for SSHing, then, or gaming, but is great for downloading the latest ISOs from RedHat, or videos of the latest greatest contact juggling routines (contactjuggling.org).
Uploading runs at about 128kbps, so is okay - it's about ISDN speed. again, there is that bit of a lag, so if you're a web admin, it's best to zip all your files together and upload them as a bunch.

The savings on the phone bill are pretty immense, though. As a web development company, our phone bills were understandably quite high - I'm not sure of the figures, but they were over 500 per month, I think - even when we tried to optimize the time we spent online. Since installing the satellite, though, we're constantly online, and don't worry about the bill because it'll always be the same no matter what!

If you want to talk shop about it, I'd recommend you email info@webworks.ie and ask about it. One of our salesmen will get back to you.

Kae
/* disclaimer:
did I mention contactjuggling.org? I'm a coder, not a designer, so that site is not indicative of the abilities of webworks. oh - and all opinions expressed above are my own.
end disclaimer */

rymus

no cap? / bandwidth throttling?

matthiku

... is offered by Europe Online

It works via a common existing Satellite dish, pointing to Astra 19.2, directly connected to your DVB PCI adapter.

As there is no uplink, you still need dial-up Internet Access to request the data being downlinked via Satellite.

Costs:
€ 60 DVB adapter (many other DVB cards supported as well)
€ ??? for 90 cm Satellite dish (if not already there)
€ 150 per year basic service fee (includes free downloads of popular items without cap and 1 GB per month self-selected items)
If you need "DSL-speed surfing": (up to 768 kbps)
€ 10 per month + 4.4 cents per minute online

I have this installed at home (Co.Clare), together with UTVip Off-peek Internet Access for € 30.--

kae

Your example requires an uplink, though, and normal working hours are _not_ off-peak, so in our own case, we would be paying for the satellite system (which, admittedly looks very good) _as well as_ our normal phone bill, resulting in an even higher Internet-access than originally.

So, it's not really a viable solution for businesses.

That looks like a fantastic package for after-hours work, though. Can you send me some details? I'd be interested in looking at it for personal use.

Kae
kverens@contactjuggling.org

kae

>no cap? / bandwidth throttling?

as far as I know, no - there is no cap, and no throttling. I believe there are some rules on "fair use" which have to be followed, but they only really apply in extreme cases.

The guy that installed the thing for us said that the bandwidth may suffer a bit in the evenings when the German home network became busy, but I've never noticed anything, and I work pretty weird hours

Kae

matthiku

That's right, EuropeOnline is completely geared towards the home/private sector.

But all the relevant information is on the aforementioned homepage from europeonline, so I don't know what else I could send you.

I can, however, explain something about the "Download centre": It provides free download of a selection of software, videos, music and games files, which is updated weekly. It provides for instance current popular Linux distros.

Now to download these files, you don't have to be online (via dialup Internet, I mean), just your PC has to be running and connected to the Dish when the software is scheduled for download.

I also enjoy very much the high quality Digital TV, which you can watch even without any relation to europe online, just with your DVB adapter and a software called DVBviewer, which allows you to save the video and/or audio in DVD quality on you harddisk. (Unfortunately, no support for encoded stations).

If you have any further questions, I will try to help.

parasite

how come no one mentioned europe online before - very reasonable prices ...
mmmm

matthiku

I apologize for that......

And here is more:
with just an DVB card (€ 60,--) and the appropriate Sat dish you can have the following for free: (it's like sniffing on the internet )

"Sat@Once is an European-scale project, sponsored by the European Space Agency (ESA) and SES-ASTRA (Luxembourg) to promote the use of satellite in the daily life. Sat@Once uses the “CASABLANCA” technology to extend the Web in another dimension, while remaining fully compliant with all aspects of the "netiquette”.

After installing a free-download “CASABLANCA” client (6,2 MB), anybody equipped with a DVB-satellite-connected PC can listen to the transmission and capture a preview of the most popular web sites and newsgroups. The most popular homepages and newsgroups are chosen semi-automatically from the Internet, based on “votes” made by the total audience of users.

You may consider the usage of Sat@Once as follows: the ASTRA satellites “soak” the air continuously with previews of the most popular pages of the Web and newsgroups. Your free, personal and private copy of “CASABLANCA” client on your PC selects from this permanent atmosphere the pages that are closest to your own personality. You preview the pages offline at your convenience, and decide which Web sites to read further. For the latter, and only for them, you need to connect.

Newsgroups are pre-fetched and sent in a same manner.

Sat@Once starts with 1 Mbps, equivalent to 12 GB a day (and is now transmitting at 2 Mbps). Potentially, a complete satellite transponder of 38 Mbps can transmit 420 GB a day. And it is possible to use several transponders, several satellites, etc. Imagine the variety of choice.

Sat@Once started transmitting since beginning of March 2002 and will continue in 2003 and beyond. If you already have a DVB-satellite dish, your only investment is in the standard DVB/IP satellite receiver, which may come from popular manufacturers such as Technotrend, Technisat, Hauppage, etc."

matthiku

oh - I forgot the appropriate link:
http://once.csp.it/english/index.php

parasite

fascinating !
have you ever used the sat at once, is it any use ?
sounds kinda fun to investigate it's possibilities though
could the same dish be used for both services, they're only ickle dishes, no? ...interesting ...

and for your your "dsl speed surfing", do you write off the 4.4 minute charge against the €30 utv charge, or is it that charge for every second your downloading from them
i'm kinda confuzzled, sorry #? :cool:

Saruman

Personally i use Netsystem over Europe online.. they are a joke, their service has turned to crap with the reduction of the file fetch service (only useful service they had). They give you 20 hours for the monthly fee after that you pay per min. Netsystem is about the same monthly fee but no time limit. Its not quite as fast a service 768 Kbit/s for EOL and Netsysten is 350 Kbit/s However they offer a 1mb service after midnight for a small extra montly fee. it is still cheaper than EOL's:

Hours included
Payment
Price

Offer 1
basic access*
monthly
9.90 €

Offer 2
10 hours/month*
monthly
29.90 €

Offer 3
20 hours/month*
monthly
44.90 €

Gaz

There all crap to be honest ...

Europeonlines skybooster is the most reliable and fastest but its also the most expensive

The basic europeonline service has also become useless , the file fetch system was 700mb max as often as you can fill it (correct me if im wrong, havnt used it in a long time) But now thats a limit of 1gb a month ...BIG differnce

Netsystem , yes its cheaper but the service is unreliable and you never get the speeds advertised ... the average is maybe 15k if your lucky. I dont really use it anymore as the speed never seems to go above 10k unless you want to wait till after 1am

matthiku

Originally posted by parasite
fascinating ! have you ever used the sat at once, is it any use ?

No, I haven't, actually just discovered this today on the DVBViewer forum ...

sounds kinda fun to investigate it's possibilities though could the same dish be used for both services, they're only ickle dishes, no? ...interesting ...

Both is available at the same time through one dish, you only change the transponder (and other parameters). My dish is currently pointing to Astra 19.2 east. I don't know what is available on the Astra 28 east, which is mostly used througout Ireland and UK for Sky Digital. Btw, what is "ickle"?

and for your your "dsl speed surfing", do you write off the 4.4 minute charge against the €30 utv charge, or is it that charge for every second your downloading from them i'm kinda confuzzled, sorry #? :cool:

The 4.4/minute goes to EuropeOnline; the €30 UTVip is solely your off-peak flat rate for dial-up internet access.
To avail of the high speed Internet via Europe Online/Satellite, you need to have your normal Internet access via the phone line. Your browsing requests goes via phone line to the Europe Online "proxy server", who fetches the answer and sends it back via Satellite to you. You then pay this 4.4 cent per minute, as long as this service is active. (About € 2.60 per hour! And you can also make normal ftp downloads)

Hope this helps.

parasite

yeah ...makes sense now
not really valid for heavy surfing, but it's economical if you surf w/ utv then occasionally want big downloads i guess...
...velly velly interesting
or i could just wait for dsl, seeing as i am in suburbia
thanks for info anyway

matthiku

Originally posted by Darth Homer
There all crap to be honest ...

Well, but compared to a 30kbs (lucky when you get more in rural areas!) dial-up modem line .....

Europeonlines skybooster is the most reliable and fastest but its also the most expensive

that may be right depending on 1) compared only to Setellite services without uplink and 2) not for light users, who only want to surf from time to time, and then not been bound by errcoms incapabilities . . .

The basic europeonline service has also become useless, the file fetch system was 700mb max as often as you can fill it (correct me if im wrong, havnt used it in a long time) But now thats a limit of 1gb a month ...BIG differnce

that's right, and during the evaluation time last year, when even the basic service was free until the end of October, they even had 3 transponders. Since they eval period ended, they only have one transponder, thus throttling the download even more.

Netsystem , yes its cheaper but the service is unreliable and you never get the speeds advertised ... the average is maybe 15k if your lucky. I dont really use it anymore as the speed never seems to go above 10k unless you want to wait till after 1am

I dunno nothing about Netsystem - could you provide a link for that?

Gaz

www.netsystem.com/eng i think

yellum

Is the Cork company MediaSat ?

JabbaTheHut

Bad news as regards Netsystem.Besides them having throttled ALL PORTS except those for surfing(e.g.no p2p or ftp),they now have a 6 gb download limit a month.Whatever happens,if anyone is thinking of signing up with Netsystem,think again.Any advantage they had over their opposition is gone.

I don't think this 6gb limit affects existing users,only new ones,but unless your into your newsgroups(using a proxy),you probably won't find 6 gb of anything to download a month with Netsystem anyhow.

kae

MediaSat sounds a bit right, and after I searched their site, I found this:
http://www.mediasat.ie/pricesme.html
€ 272.00 for 1Gb download, and € 0.36 per Mb afterwards.

Yes, they have cheaper solutions, but they're pretty ridiculous if you're thinking of anything other than email or one person surfing.

zAbbo

Ive emailed webworks,

So far havent heard anything back, smells of the usual crap tehcno hype ive become acustomed to in monaghan.

Dr. Dre

Pay heed to the prior warning from Jabba, netsystem now is total s*ite as they are throttling ports associated with file sharing apps and newsgroups. Previous to this I was getting d/l's of 30-40Kbps :mad:

thommcn

I left EuropeOnline before skybooster was added to their package. In general the service was absolute rubbish, filefetch worked eventually and the media centre had a poor selection with download dropouts. EuropeOnline has always suffered from bad service, avoid like the plague.

OHP

Again I feel this is the wrong place for this kind of thread.Think about it?

OHP