Sunday Business Post : wholesale price ADSL price to be 28 euros

williamb

Not on their website yet, but the Business Post have a story quoting Eircom spokesman Gerry O'Sullivan that the wholesale ADSL price will be 28 Euros, giving Eircom the same profit margin as their existing ADSL product, of around 38%.

ozt9vdujny3srf

making eircoms current offering easily betterable

parasite

is this reasonable ?

Deu

What section in the paper?

segadreamcast

This is exciting enough news - if it happens, we can assume that Eircom's 45 euro ex-vat package can be undercut by anywhere between 5-10 euro, right?

Now - if more lines pass the DSL tests... I think we're set to enter some kind of broadband era. 45 Euro Inc VAT from UTV or the like for a 512/128k package would be fairly consumer-friendly.

sceptre

Link

PiE

That seems a very positive attitude from Gerry O'Sullivan... maybe Eircom have finally realised it's gonna happen sooner or later and they may as well get a head start on the rest.

Don't like the way he implied the current service is €89 though, most people would assume that means inc. VAT ;\

Jorinn

As long as someone offers no cap, or a reasonable cap. With eircoms cap I could um, attempt to download a set of complete linux iso's but then be charged extra to browse the net.

bricks

Introduce at a really high price and then be the heros for reducing the cost dramatically.
My guess is they will now try to grab as much of the market as posible. This is probably also the time when NTL will jump back in and try to get their stuff going. i.e. once they see the demand generated.

spongebob

Originally posted by bricks
This is probably also the time when NTL will jump back in and try to get their stuff going.

. No...not really...ever.

Boston

I actually believe this, since a wholesale price of around this would have to be introduced for the 45 ex vat product.

One question, where does this leave esat who are using unbundled lines to provide their service. I doubt they will be able to compete without undercutting themselves

Btw NTL are gone as far as broadband, dont expect anything from them. Maybe that stupid digibox internet thing, but i can't see it happening here before the uk.

SkepticOne

"This is not a game for Eircom. If we did not intend to go ahead with our plans for broadband, we would be setting ourselves up for a big fall."

We shall see. Proof is in the pudding. Certainly, if 28 euros is the wholesale price, it will be hard for ComReg to reject them on the basis of "margin sqeeze". Nevertheless, it is very important that ISPs other than just Eircom.net are able to resell the product.

SkepticOne

He said Eircom was also committed to providing flat rate internet access. Under a directive from the telecoms regulator, the telco has to offer a wholesale flat rate service by next month to allow rivals to offer their own packages by June.

Never thought I'd hear this coming from Eircom. LOL.

ando

This is probably also the time when NTL will jump back in and try to get their stuff going

bwahahahahaah ... ah man, that .. hahahahaha.. cracks me up


seriously, what's up with eircom ?

BoneCollector

My guess is they will now try to grab as much of the market as posible.

Certainly, if 28 euros is the wholesale price, it will be hard for ComReg to reject them on the basis of "margin sqeeze".

One major prob on both counts
ercom could say there launcing a DSL package for FREE!!!
and Launch it, and tell the regulator.. "Look! where offering free and no ones buying??"

This is probably because anyone that wants it cant get it cuz there exchange is not DSL enabled?
So they can still justify that no one is interested cus no ones buying, but never admit its because people cant access the service there advertising.. Unless this is going to change dramicaly in the next 4-6 weeks??

Ardmore

This is probably because anyone that wants it cant get it cuz there exchange is not DSL enabled?
So they can still justify that no one is interested cus no ones buying, but never admit its because people cant access the service there advertising.. Unless this is going to change dramicaly in the next 4-6 weeks??

As there are tens of thousands of people on DSL enabled exchanges today, I think you must be a little bit confused.

Fergus

I reckon eircom are trying to principally stop other operators from deploying their own DSL in exchanges with LLU etc. If they go in with a low wholesale DSL product, it makes it much more difficult for an OLO to justify investing in their own DSLAMs etc. The idea is to maintain a 100% monopoly on DSL supply at wholesale level. Leverage their economies of scale.

And the more DSL subscribers are connected via eircom's DSL network, the less feasible use of the Fiber Rings project backbone becomes for other operators.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Ardmore
As there are tens of thousands of people on DSL enabled exchanges today, I think you must be a little bit confused.

I wonder, though, if this proposed service, if it comes to pass at all, will be available out of all the currently enabled exchanges initially. My understanding is that RADSL will be the technology to be used.

wormhole

As there are tens of thousands of people on DSL enabled exchanges today, I think you must be a little bit confused

if you think being on an enabled exchange is enough to get
adsl then your confused.
line test failures amongst those brave (deluded) souls who
wanted the package as it is now seem very high
if a reasonable cost package becomes available the high demand
will reveil the true state of the phone network and if 50% of
applicants can pass the line test i'd be very supprised.

K!LL!@N

There seems to be a lot of concern about people on enabled exchanges still failing line tests. As far as i know, i'm on an enabled exchange ( Dun Laoghaire ), my mate in the next street currently has i-stream ( he got on the trial and couldn't give it up ). I on the other hand failed the line test even though i'm actually closer to the exchange.

Anyways, I think that someone should keep a record of people who are interested in adsl but fail the line test. This could then be thrown in the face of eircom, if they turn around and say there's no interest. I'm really hoping this won't be the case though. I think eircom are out to get the jump on their competitors and will sign up anyone that's willing, and able, to jump aboard.

Killian

aidan_dunne

Repeating myself from this thread here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78258

Hmmm, €28 wholsesale would be quite nice but this is Eircom we're talking about here so I honestly can't see it being that low.

Still, if this were true..... C'MON UTV, give us ADSL with no cap for €40. You know you want to. Even ADSL for that price with somthing like, say, a 10GB cap and bandwidth throttling after that would be good.

aidan_dunne

Actually, I just did some calculation and, at that price, UTV wouldn't be able to offer €40 ADSL. Damn! Unless it's €28 inc. VAT which, of course, it's not.

<Note to self> Remember to put brain into first gear before posting in future!<Note to self>

BoneCollector

C'MON UTV, give us ADSL with no cap for €40

to be honest, i cant see NO CAP
since all us irish internet users have been starved for the past few years with NO friaco, NO broadband.
If we where presented with a plate of Broandband with added NO CAP! we would be ravenous! :eek: just like a Wild Pack of dogs!! to say the least

I think we may need to be weened 1st untill we get use to the idea
maybe a 6GB for starters would be nice

neverhappen

eircom have said that e28 would maintain their margin at the same level as their current broadband offering, however (to my knowledge) no OLOs have been reselling istream at those margins.

Given that a retail price of e55ish should generate a lot of interest, does comreg need to force the wholesale price lower (and thus margins higher) to ensure that competition is created/maintained in the consumer/soho dsl market from the start before eircom captures the whole lot ?

parasite

yeah, it's going to be hard to change the habits of a lifetime, i.e. not leaving it idle for a single second, having about 10 windows open simultaneously etc ..
they've only themselves to blame :0

Dustaz

Originally posted by neverhappen
eircom have said that e28 would maintain their margin at the same level as their current broadband offering, however (to my knowledge) no OLOs have been reselling istream at those margins.

VIA networks DSL is a reselling of i-stream afaik.

flamegrill

Originally posted by Dustaz
VIA networks DSL is a reselling of i-stream afaik.

Correct.

spongebob

Originally posted by flamegrill
Correct.

in Dublin.......................only.

parasite

i just heard noel o'flynn t.d., on the "fish 'n' fones" committee, and he was just back from a junket in seattle looking at broadband, nicely critical of eircom, saying a price of 45 plus vat, he's going to request a wholesale price of 15 yoyo's with a view for low 20's retail, for what his view is worth

edit that doesn't read well at all, can't be bothered to fix it

Boston

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
Actually, I just did some calculation and, at that price, UTV wouldn't be able to offer €40 ADSL. Damn! Unless it's €28 inc. VAT which, of course, it's not.

Why would there be vat on a wholesale product? any wholesale product infact.

25 euro as far as i can remember will buy the isp a port in the dslam. Then you have the cost of suppling your own bandwidth, or paying for eircoms. Then the cost of equipment, then employ costs. all coem to getter for the total price, which is then subjected to vat. As you can see the more people that use the service, the lower the average costs. But there are always certain fixed costs

exiztone

That's great news!

yellum

Eircom using the SBP again I see to bring this news about. Until this guy guarantees this price and brings it out asap I won't trust them. They could talk about doing this for another year if they wanted to. Its still not an official offering though is it ? Talk is cheap.

MarVeL

Surely there has been an official offer by now! Theoretically they are rolling the retail out next month and if they try to do that with out the wholesale then Comreg . . . but maybe that's the plan. Eircom have this wonderful deal but comreg won't let us sell it. We're struggling to help the Irish consumer but the nasty beauraucrats are stopping us.

That has a familiar ring to it somehow

Dotsie~tmp

A question on this wholesale product. If for example UTV purchase this do Eircom dictate the bandwidth that they can use? Say UTV offer it no cap for around the same price as Eircoms with a cap and UTV users draw about five times the data the Eircom users do. Can Eircom put restriction on UTV other than the wholesale price? Or is bandwidth something that is purchased separately prom the line by each provider?

Boston

Originally posted by Dotsie~tmp
A question on this wholesale product. If for example UTV purchase this do Eircom dictate the bandwidth that they can use? Say UTV offer it no cap for around the same price as Eircoms with a cap and UTV users draw about five times the data the Eircom users do. Can Eircom put restriction on UTV other than the wholesale price? Or is bandwidth something that is purchased separately prom the line by each provider?

As far as i know eash isp can either supply there own bandwidth or buy eircoms. Caps in the sense of the word you use, don't apply in wholesale situations. Eircom or any provider will charge be the amounth of bandwidth used and also the size of the pipe. To sperate costs

spongebob

ooopps wrong.

Boston

Originally posted by Muck
the wholesale offering is capped, skepticone pointed this out about a month ago

So your saying with this wholesale offering, isp's have to get there bandwidth from eircom? news to me. Anyway of confirming this. seems very contradictory to free and open competition

SkepticOne

The bitstream offering isn't capped. There may be problems, however, if the ISPs are forced to use a 50:1 contention ratio. I think this is what muck might be referring to.

JohnK

at least things are moving in the right direction

Boston

Originally posted by SkepticOne
The bitstream offering isn't capped. There may be problems, however, if the ISPs are forced to use a 50:1 contention ratio. I think this is what muck might be referring to.

Very interesting, leave the ground open for allot of pointless guess work. Anyway back to the orginal question about bandwidth caps. the first answer stands.

One think i will say, id imagine that 50:1 is only releavent to ports and that you can put as much bandwidth physically possible behind that, purely because i can't see any real reason why you couldn't. In the same fashion if someone wanted a 25:1 contention they would pay twice as much. Just remember that 28 a month wholesale is not the price of a a port. 1400 euro a month is the wholesale price of a port

milltown

My understanding of business accounting vis a vis (ooh! get her!) VAT is that VAT can only be charged once on any product or service. Therefore, assuming the wholesale price is €28 ex vat, any OLO buying this from Eircom will be charged VAT on it. Being a company registered for VAT they will then claim this back from the Revenue as it will be paid by the end user.
The price in real terms to the OLO is still €28 euro and the revenue are happy because they get 21% of the higher retail price to help pay for tribunals and Mary Harney's air taxi and the like.

pork99

Originally posted by JohnK
at least things are moving in the right direction

I'd wait and see. Lets remember Eircom's sole "raison d'etre" is to extract as much cash as possible from the Irish economy for their overseas investors (with the assistence of their stooges in Fianna Fail and ComReg)

Friaco and cheap bb access are in conflict with this overall mission - they still have a huge incentive to keep us on overpriced dialup and leased lines

JohnK

Good point.
/me enters pessimistic mode

MDR

They are just pre-empting what COMREG would have forced them to do, when the New European Framework becomes law during the late summer. They are just getting the jump on it and the market, introducing mass DSL on their terms, so your partially right in a way.

But still there would be no way they would have been doing this without pressure for D.Ahern and to a lesser extent COMREG. They where spitting fire when FRIACO was mandated, they were MAD, but DoCOMM pushed ahead anyway. So there is something to be hopefully about, a change of mood at COMREG and DoCOMM, certain has occured me thinks.

pork99

Originally posted by MDR
So there is something to be hopefully about, a change of mood at COMREG and DoCOMM, certain has occured me thinks.

Perhaps that something is the need to comply with EU regulations?

MDR

No, I don't know if it would be too forward to say,
be certainily in IOFFL's dealing with them,
they seem to be a little bit more energised,
but maybe that is just my perception.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Boston
One think i will say, id imagine that 50:1 is only releavent to ports and that you can put as much bandwidth physically possible behind that, purely because i can't see any real reason why you couldn't.

Going on the current bitstream offering (if I've read the thing correctly), the service includes a data link to a number of handover locations. So if the ISP has 200 customers it wants served off a particular handover point (there are three in Dublin, for example), Eircom will provide sufficient capacity on this link to transfer 2 meg/sec (since each user will have 512k on a 50:1 ratio). Therefore a bottleneck is introduced at this point and extra bandwidth available to the ISP can't be used.

All this is based on my understanding of the current offering and the assumption that it will also apply to the new version proposed by Eircom except with a 50:1 ratio as opposed to 24:1.

Boston

Originally posted by SkepticOne
Going on the current bitstream offering (if I've read the thing correctly), the service includes a data link to a number of handover locations. So if the ISP has 200 customers it wants served off a particular handover point (there are three in Dublin, for example), Eircom will provide sufficient capacity on this link to transfer 2 meg/sec (since each user will have 512k on a 50:1 ratio). Therefore a bottleneck is introduced at this point and extra bandwidth available to the ISP can't be used.

exactly the type of situation i was thinking for smaller isps like utv. (one thing, what happens with the 1mb service) .

But what about the situation where certain isps can supply their own bandwidh directly to the exchange, like esat,nevada and esb(will). Granted i dont fully understand what you mean by handover location. You say theres only three in dublin so they can't be access nodes i'm thinking of.

to be honest i can see this becoming very confusing, since what little inofmation there is about the exact technical spec of these services is hard to come by. Most of what i'm going on is what i read on how BT operates. which may or may not have anything to do with this.

LoBo

sounds great - anyone able to enlighten me what this 45euro offering from eircom is? or point me to appropriate thread - I'm in australia so only catch up with the goings on in IOFFL land now and again.

cheers
Colm