Fight Club?

seamus

Having recently obtained some proof of one fight club which exists in Dublin (I can't divulge, sorry), I'm curious.

Why? Being a pacifist, going to some place and having seven shades of sh1te kicked out of me (and my opponent) is about as appealing as chopping off my testicles with a toenail clippers. I do know the feeling of wanting to completely batter someone, but it's usually directed towards someone. Even in a blind rage, I couldn't take it out on a completely random stranger.

Where's the appeal? Why do people feel the need to do it? Anyone ever been involved in one?

sound_wave

the appeal is most likely the fact that you can beat the hell out of one another and get away with it or maybe its the feeling of power after you punch your opponent in the face the high of adrenaline coursing through ones veins or the fact that the actual movie itself has highlighted a way of venting anger one another human being in this fashion.

Never been involved in one myself but i wouldnt mind experiencing it for myself..i have taken a good few blows to the head on the rugby pitch so it wouldnt be much different...i hope...

but seriously why would people do this..the feeling of power, the feeling that you have just injured another person that you have cut them heard them cry out in pain..thats my two-cents anyways

interesting topic by the way !!

DeVore

I've been in enough fights to last me a lifetime... I certainly wouldnt want to be in any more thanks!

Modern living builds up a rage inside a lot of people who find that life, when you get right down to it, is pretty monotonous sh|t!

The film pretty much covers the reasons why as well.


I had a violent temper as a lad and a young man.... I took up karate in order to get some control on it, or at least to learn how to avoid getting hurt without hospitalising the other guy in the process. I was lucky in fact... I had breaks that many other guys wouldnt get and so they turn to the drinking/fighting culture in order to release their anger. Just look at England!

I dont know if I agree with these clubs but its better then those "psychos" being on the street and taking it out on people who HAVENT volunteered...

I would suggest a boxing club but I doubt that would give them the release they are looking for...

DeV.

DadaKopf

There was suppose to have been a fight club in UCD but it was either such a great secret that they advertised for members or it was a commendable student hoax. I don't get into fights (I've been lucky) but, uh, in answer to your question relating specifically to Fight Club (the movie), the genius of the film's idea is kind of lost on mongs who like to beat the ****e out of each other for the laugh.

Fight Club is all about feeling pain because you can't buy or sell pain. It's all about resituating your self in your body instead of transferring your self onto objects. The fellas who took part in the fight clubs in the movie were angry but never towards each other - just at their own lives. Fight Club is about catharsis and transcendence. Uh....

Yeah, so if there's any fight clubs going on here, it's just a bunch of knackers beating the ****e out of each other and using the film as an excuse to be cool or subversive. Knackers.

Mind you, if they concentrated on beating each other up instead normal people and passersby, the world would be a better place.

But, uh, no, I've never been in a fight and unless I was really in danger of being killed or nearly fatally injured (you never know I suppose), I don't think I'd actually throw any punches. I'd prefer to just lie down, curl up and take it. They wouldn't find me much fun and leave.

daveirl

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Dustaz

Originally posted by DadaKopf
the genius of the film's idea is kind of lost on mongs who like to beat the ****e out of each other for the laugh.

Yeah, so if there's any fight clubs going on here, it's just a bunch of knackers beating the ****e out of each other and using the film as an excuse to be cool or subversive. Knackers.

Mind you, if they concentrated on beating each other up instead normal people and passersby, the world would be a better place.

Absolutly agree 100%

Im all in favour of these fight clubs. Should be more of them. The more people who are interested in attending, the more chance we have of cleaning up the gene pool a little bit.

Gordon

A little off topic maybe but...

Was the film taken from the actuality of real-life™ fight clubs or was it an idea born from the writer's imagination?

Typedef

real-life™

mike65

Originally posted by daveirl

Still had fights on the rugby field but they don't count.

Typical rugger bugger ( I'll kill someone on the field but I'm a pussy cat in real life! )

Mike.

Greenbean

Why? To feel like man again, not a new age material drone. To let that hunter/fighter instinct flare up in a fairly controlled environment. To face up to one of the biggest fears most guys have "am I a man? could I cut it if I had to". To sniff in the air, with all senses heightened, to respond to the animal within, to get the mojo back, to feel confident, to respond to natural survival instincts. Throw all the materialist crap in the bin and get back to basics.. this is what we were made for. Theres probably a very intimidating front to it all.. ie getting your head beat in, but thats your rite of passage.

Just look at boxing and think about it. Its a fight club pure and simple.

Saying that, I wouldn't really be interested in joining a fight club.. maybe a Ray Mears type survival course, but not a boxing/karate/fight club. These days you're a bigger man if you can cope and adapt to the real materialistic world which is a much harder task.

azezil

Never seen the point or need to fight anyone, i havn't been in a fight since primary school! I came close on many occasions but always managed to talk my way out of em (usually talked my way into them in the first place ) ...

Is it appealing to me, oh hell no, i aviod pain whenever possible, perhaps if my oponent was a foot smaller than me and about 4 stone i might conside it

daveirl

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Clintons Cat

A little off topic maybe but...

Was the film taken from the actuality of real-life™ fight clubs or was it an idea born from the writer's imagination?

whats the difference between "fight clubs" as opposed to run of the mill unlicensed boxing/bare knuckle prize fighting or god help us ultimate fighting contests that have been around for years?

I suppose the main reason to prefering this type of fighting to plain old fashioned street brawling,is that it codifies and gives a layer of acceptability to an otherwise anti social activity.
Secondly its a way for the disenfranchised to gain a measure of self respect and status.
Thirdly the fight arranged by mutual consent of such contests means that grudges are rarely continued outside the ring.

Sangre

In my school (a respectable one) there was a 'fight club'. It was after school at dinner between study in the common room. We'd setup a ring of bags and two of them wore helmets and gloves and fought for 3 rounds. Great to watch. It was all over the school, teachers heard about it and we stopped it. I was all lined up to fight some guy my size aswell

Its the purest form of phyiscal competition, pure animal instinct pitting all of you against your opponent, quite exhilarating I imagine.
Although I dont think I've ever got in a fight in real life, just some tussles in rugby

DadaKopf

Originally posted by Clintons Cat
whats the difference between "fight clubs" as opposed to run of the mill unlicensed boxing/bare knuckle prize fighting or god help us ultimate fighting contests that have been around for years?

I suppose the main reason to prefering this type of fighting to plain old fashioned street brawling,is that it codifies and gives a layer of acceptability to an otherwise anti social activity.
Secondly its a way for the disenfranchised to gain a measure of self respect and status.
Thirdly the fight arranged by mutual consent of such contests means that grudges are rarely continued outside the ring.

Well, Greenbean is exactly right in what he said. But the idea of Fight Club (in the movie) is that it's kind of a political movement. Street brawls are just that, Fight Club has a political agenda.

Clintons Cat

Well...There is certainly a precedent for it.
C18 the "Security Wing" of the BNP started as a Firm of Soccer Hooligans.The Chelsea Headhunters.
The National Front were exposed to be using Self Defence Courses for Recruitment purposes in the early eighties.

As for self styled Fight Clubs i doubt they have a particular political agenda beyond that of using pre-generated publicity of the movie to generate interest/hype.

Kell

I have to say that while I probably wouldent attend, I support the idea of a fight club. As we are all aware there is a lot of anger and agression that is not being placed anywhere other than innocent by standers, wives, kids etc. Personally I see nothing wrong with flexing the animal instincts and kicking the **** out of someone. Beats hitting your wife or kids, or ramming the car in front cos you're that pis*ed with them, and as someone said earlier, might help to sort the gene pool out as well. As far as I can see, Darwins theory of survival of the fittest has ground to a halt with humans seeing as society looks after the scrounging bastard that contributes nothing except hassle and fúcks the tax paying ordinary Joe soap.

Victor

Originally posted by Kell
I have to say that while I probably wouldent attend, I support the idea of a fight club. As we are all aware there is a lot of anger and agression that is not being placed anywhere other than innocent by standers, wives, kids etc.

You can work off your nor-adrenelin just as easily by going for a run / long walk / cycle.

Gordon

Originally posted by Victor
You can work off your nor-adrenelin just as easily by going for a run / long walk / cycle.

You can also masturbate as opposed to making love to a beautiful woman and you will still expel a hundred million sperm cells!

Caesar_Bojangle

The irish travellers have had one going for years, similar to an extent, they sell all kinds of merchandise revolving around it but its more money orientated than say emotional like fight club. My brother picked up the video for it when he was in america over christmas.

If i was in quite a good physical shape i'd try it once as long as it was reasonably fair for the fighters who participate, like no weapons and so forth.

ironape

I would have to say that I can see the reason why people would want to particiapate and, truth be told, I would be interested in participating out of a curious interest.

Bottled up rage is a killer - pure and simple - and I think that fighting is one of the most direct ways to get it out (shoutings good too). Running and physical exercise are all well and good but I dont' think they really compare. I have been in a few fights myself, nothing major. I used to take kickboxing classes and I was never so zen as I was then. hmmm, seriously considering taking it up again. One things for sure, I will definitly be getting a puch bag sometime in the near future (have been thinking about that for a while).

Ape

Edit: have just read over that and I sound like an angry mother. I'm not really.

Specky

OK, so you think having a fight club reduces the chances for over anxious types to beat up their wives and kids? I don't really think so.

Who's going to join these sorts of organisations? Meat heads who think they're pretty hard...otherwise why would you join?? So you can get your head kicked in regularly? Don't think so.

So you get a crowd of meat heads together and the smallest meat head of the bunch is frequently getting pummelled. What's he going to do? He's going to get real frustrated about it and take it out on someone he can beat.

What happens to the bigger, tougher meatheads? They win all the time, get to believe they're tougher than anyone else and want to take on "harder" and "harder" oponents.

First they become conditioned to believe violence is perfectly acceptable, then they start using their well developed bone breaking techniques whenever they aren't getting their own way.

Sorry, but however philosophically beautiful the idea of fight clubs might be, you're forgetting about the human factor. People are jealous, vain, selfish, competitive etc etc etc.

The very reason why you have a drink/fight society in parts of england is because of the drink/fight clubs that have grown up there around football club and local areas.

What on earth is attractive about that???

Hobbes

Originally posted by Caesar_Bojangle
The irish travellers have had one going for years, similar to an extent, they sell all kinds of merchandise revolving around it but its more money orientated than say emotional like fight club.

Yea... "fight club". It's like people saying "River Dance" is Irish dancing.

ironape

I would have to agree with you partly specky. The philisohpical idea of a fight club may not be atainable or may not always be driving force behind a particular fight club. The 'idea' is the only thing that would ever attract me, so if it were lacking in that I wouldn't be intersted in it.

However I think that getting pummeled voluntarily would teach people who are aggressive and perhaps a bit boneheaded the value of an alternative method of expressing yourself. For example: "aggressive-young-male" (aym) on his nightly strut about town stumbles across a fight club. aym thinks "great! an excuse to beat the **** out of people". aym becomes part of fight club and pummels a few guy and gets pummeled a few times (theres aways someone bigger than you. Also as far as fighting is concerned, I believe it's not so much how big you are, it's how aggressive you are. I've seen guys who are small and fast and suprisingly strong - not at a fight club, nor have I been to a fight club for that matter). aym will learn modesty and respect, cos it will be people he knows that will sometimes beat him and whom he will sometimes beat. It's a sport for the sake of it. It's not about a competition, it's about an experience. Doens't matter who wins, you take part for the sake of taking part. Maybe this is an unobtainable ideal, but it's at least a nice thought.

then again, maybe I'm full of sh!t

Ape

Specky

Yeah...I'm just not convinced by this "self realisation" argument though ape. I think that a lot of people who get beaten are just going to get bitter and twisted about it.

Don't know if anyone recalls the section from HitchHiker's Guide where scientists come up with a machine which can recreate the entire universe inside a small room (from the remnants of a half eaten fairy cake as I recall), this was then used as a means of punishment for people who over stepped the mark. The principle was that when they stepped inside the room and where confronted by the entire universe they would suddenly realise their insignificance and dissapear in a puff of self doubt.

When they used it on Zaphod Beenlebrox they placed him inside, closed the door, switched on the machine, left it for the pre-determined length of time and then switched it off. When they opened the door out came Zaphod with a big smile and said (in typical Fonz-like manner) "Heeyyyy!!!".

I know this might be a little tangential as a parallel but I think what I'm trying to say is that what you might see as an enlightening experience bringing you ultimately to new and more harmonious relationship with the universe will be seen by many more as another indication of how the whole world is against them, victimising and putting them down....oh hey let's just go get a Kalashnikov....(hmmm it's easier to spell uzi...)

Yes, we all have animal instincts...even those lovely people on the other side of the atlantic who make such a fuss about english soccer hooligans (did anyone see the riots the other night after the SuperBowl by the way...?), and we need to vent our agression (daisies and daffodils "in with anger...out with love" pfff)...but surely we can come up with something a bit more civilised than wanting to smack some stranger round the head.

I'm not against people wanting to pursue forms of combat as hobbies btw...although I would have to question the motives of some people I've met who are heavily into that kind of thing. Why make a weapon if you have no intention of using it?

I also often think we are over-reliant on the framework of society we have around us and wonder who would survive if that framework were to collapse (remember the hairdressers and telephone sanitizers from Hitch Hiker's Guide?). Every one of us exists because somewhere in the dim, distant and somewhat hairy past one monkey-man beat the s***e out of some other weaker monkey-man (and probably then shagged his bird) so well done monkey-man! But I'm not him and I really doubt that the next phase of evolution (if there is time left for there to be another phase of evolution) isn't going to have much to do with which one of a series of knuckleheads is left standing down some back alley one dark night.

Specky

BTW when I said "smallest" in previous post I meant "least able to not get his head kicked in"....but didn't have enough spare fingers to type all that at the time.

...and when I refered to Monkey-men in the more recent one I wasn't referring to Iron Ape who I'm sure is not nearly so hairy and probably wouldn't go shagging anyone's bird without asking politely first

Lemming

Originally posted by ironape
Running and physical exercise are all well and good but I dont' think they really compare.

<SNIP>

I used to take kickboxing classes and I was never so zen as I was then.

Then why, oh why do you (no one in particular) NEED a fight club other than to feel "hard"?

Sports FULL STOP takes care of agressive tendencies simly because you are competing (ie. being agressive) with others.

I used to do ferocious amounts of mountain biking and martial arts (bu-jutsu) and I felt perfectly calm and tranquil. After having not been active for about a year or two due to outside influences, I feel far more agressive although i've never lost my self-control.

Anyway, my rant is to go do something that channels your agression in a positive way.

As mentioned before by others, the (non-film) version of fight-club
is just a bunch of knackers wanting an excuse to justify their actions.

Kell

Gotta agree with you Ironape. The "idealism" behind a fight club is good. Your also right in pointing out the bits about someone always being bigger, faster, stronger than you thereby at some stage your going to have your ass kicked and you learn humility the hard way. This I would see as restoring a sort of order to things. A reference to the animal kingdom-

The Big Pride of Lions know their place, from dad to cub, and everyone knows not to fúck with the big cat. Then someone in the pride gets píssed at this idea and thinks "I am going to take on the old fúcker cause I want a piece of his harem". He enters into a plain old fashined scrap with the Big Cat and if he wins, he gets laid. If he gets his ass kicked, he's out, ostriscised by the rest of them like Dunlop at a tribunal.

Somewhere along the line, humans decided that it was OK to fúck with the Big Cat (police, the law rah rah rah) but they didnt get their asses kicked like they should have done and more and more people end up taking the píss out of the rest of us law abiding citizens. Maybe if these thick skulled undesirables had the shít kicked out of them on a regular basis they would think twice about taking on the Big Cat again thus restoring a sense of order to an otherwise chaotic society.

Note:- yes I am a communist and slightly fascist at heart.

Specky

Yes but who's going to do the kicking??

I know in the movies it's always the good guy who wins the fights but in my experience the hardest people around are generally the biggest ****.

They fight and win because they have absolutely no regard for other people.

So your system to work you'd need to beat these people.

Who's going to do that? Are you going to train up special Jean Claude Van Damm people for the job?? No, didn't think so.

So the **** who win all the fights never get beaten, they join together to protect themselves from a revolt by the masses, they exploit their position of invulnerability and.....oh look! a violent criminal gang! how did that happen???

DeVore

Just for sh|ts and giggles I thought I'd post this:
http://www.boards.ie/store/boardsclubtext.jpg


Also, the police are just a BIGGER gang and will eventually win by calling in their big brother (the army). The violent criminals survive by not making waves that are TOO big.... (like the Veronica Guerin murder... there were as many big criminals pissed about that as there were cops! The heat came down hard on them as a result of it and they didnt like it).

DeV.

Victor

Originally posted by Specky
OK, so you think having a fight club reduces the chances for over anxious types to beat up their wives and kids? I don't really think so.

Interesting point. If we "allow" violence in a semi-controlled situation, isn't there a risk it will set a precedence for unacceptable behavior in an uncontrolled situation (spouse / kids / person on street).

DriftingRain

I know this is a chicks point of view but...I LOVE to watch a good fight. All the male sweat and blood. The sound of skin against skin. The purest sound of a belly blow! I may be tasteless, but to watch a boxing match or these "Fight Club" fights I would pay good money to see em. By the way I loved the movie and this was a great topic!:D

Kell

Originally posted by Victor
Interesting point. If we "allow" violence in a semi-controlled situation, isn't there a risk it will set a precedence for unacceptable behavior in an uncontrolled situation (spouse / kids / person on street).

Interesting point number II. I have known a lot of trained fighters i.e. karate kids, judo heads, kick boxers whatever flicks your switch and they have to rate as some of the most level headed people I know and certainly do not show an aggressive side in the least. OK, this sort of training teaches you more about self control than anything else, but the point I am making is that it is in a controlled environment and has yet to spill over into an uncontrollable situation, bar those fifty something Chinese fúckers on O'Connell street.

I have to disagree with the attitude that the biggest always win. You forget that in a fight club, anything goes bar weapons. Being crafty and despicable wins. I dont know anyone that can get up after a swift kick in the testicles followed by heavy headshot followed by another quick kick in the ribs as your travelling downwards. Do you? Sport shows us that, sometimes rank outsiders win.

DeVore

Some Dojos teach to self-discipline and control. Most do to be honest, though there are some that are nutcase-generators (typically ju-jitsu and ninjitsu places I've found).

I did karate to control a nasty violent temper I had as a teen and it worked. You are conscious that you cant lay into your sparring partner (or the blackbelt will give you something more pressing to think about!)... and you get used to someone throwing punches and kicks at you (which was a big trigger for my temper before.... someone throwing anything at me including fists etc and I'd lose it!)

Now I can take a dig and walk away if necessary or at least not lose my head and have to be pulled off someone (which happened a couple of times )

There is a danger point where you havent learned enough to control your anger but you've learned enough to improve you're ability to hurt someone substantially!

on the balance of things I would want my son to train if he was a violent bugger... but probably not otherwise (unless he expressed a strong interest in it).

DeV.

Specky

Originally posted by DriftingRain
I know this is a chicks point of view but...I LOVE to watch a good fight. All the male sweat and blood. The sound of skin against skin. The purest sound of a belly blow! I may be tasteless, but to watch a boxing match or these "Fight Club" fights I would pay good money to see em. By the way I loved the movie and this was a great topic!:D

...and I find the idea of having sex with women I've never met sometimes quite erotic but it doesn't mean I think it's a good idea to have lots of sex with strangers.

Originally posted by Kell (Apologies to Victor)

I have to disagree with the attitude that the biggest always win. You forget that in a fight club, anything goes bar weapons. Being crafty and despicable wins. I dont know anyone that can get up after a swift kick in the testicles followed by heavy headshot followed by another quick kick in the ribs as your travelling downwards. Do you? Sport shows us that, sometimes rank outsiders win.:D

but more often than not it's the experienced expert. If it wasn't then I'd be on the Irish Olympic Judo team.

I think it's odd the way some contributors to the thread are intellectualising about this idea, talking about the importance of releasing the animal rage, yet can't see the way people in society actually act....I'm talking real society which consists more of people on the opposite side of the information gap from the majority of those contributing to this list.

Do you remember the book/film Trainspotting? Remember the psychopathic guy who's name escapes me right now? I've met people like him, they are out there. Those are the sorts of people who will be attracted to a join a fight club. They will win fights because they are totally merciless, underhand...crafty and despicable if you like. If they don't win the fight on the night then you'll wake up in hospital some other time because he'll sneak up behind you with a pick axe handle some other night.

I just cannot see where you get this idea that people are going to lose fights and walk away all "philosophical" about it. There will be no referee, there will be no "teacher" or "leader" in such an organisation to impose rules or to command respect...how could there be unless he was also the hardest person there?

This is an interesting thread on many levels.

I think some people are being a little "selective" with their anecdotal recommendations for violence. I've met a lot of people into the martial arts because they wanted to be tough, not to teach them discipline or self control, just because they wanted to be able to kick the ****e out of anyone who tried it on.

As a result, trouble followed these people around. They got into fights.

I was the victim of unprovoked attacks three times while I lived in the UK. A friend of mine was in a group of four people attacked by one guy, a total psychopath who was very obviously trained in some form of martial arts.

Besides these incidents I haven't been in a fight since primary school and I think I'm a pretty mellow sort of individual. I don't play any aggressive sports any more although I did used to play rugby union. If it's so important to release all this tension why haven't I exploded? Am I really that unusual to think it's barbaric to want to inflict damage on another individual for my own personal gratification?

DriftingRain

...and I find the idea of having sex with women I've never met sometimes quite erotic but it doesn't mean I think it's a good idea to have lots of sex with strangers.

I have this funny sort of feeling you took my statement the wrong was chap!

If not please explain yourself:)

Specky

Originally posted by DriftingRain
I have this funny sort of feeling you took my statement the wrong was chap!

What I think I was trying to say was that sometimes our "romanticised" fantasies seem really attractive, but more often than not reality is somewhat less attractive because of all the baggage it brings with it.

In the mean time you can satisfy your animal lust by watching da boxing and I can satisfy mine with my wife.

Victor

Originally posted by Specky
quote:

---

Originally posted by Victor

I have to disagree with the attitude that the biggest always win. You forget that in a fight club, anything goes bar weapons. Being crafty and despicable wins. I dont know anyone that can get up after a swift kick in the testicles followed by heavy headshot followed by another quick kick in the ribs as your travelling downwards. Do you? Sport shows us that, sometimes rank outsiders win.

---

I didn't say this. Please correct it.

neuro-praxis

Specky, I agree with you 100%. You are a voice of reason in a sea of, uh, fantastical romantic sh|t.

I also agree thoroughly with Dadakopf and Greenbean.

I've struggled with a violent temper for years (it's not a problem now, but I got into a lot of brawls as a kid, occasionally really causing damage). I've totally grown out of it now, since becoming a Christian at 13 and attempting to adopt the "love thine enemies" ethic. Tough, but worthy.

I've done martial arts and found it very therapeutic. It's controlled and an excellent release of tension and aggression.

However, a fight club would no doubt distort me into some sort of base, disgusting savage animal that got gratification from causing physical injury to others. And why would this stop at the club? Why wouldn't it spread to the rest of my life?

We aren't animals unless we choose to be.

DeVore

Errrr... I have a feeling people think I SUPPORT such fight clubs.

I dont.

I would suggest to anyone who has a "quick fire" temper like I did to condition themselves to get used to the triggers that they "snap" on. For me any threat of violence or being struck or having something thrown at me and I'd react very badly to it. Sparring helped me understand the idea of control, self discipline and that I could be thumped without having to take the persons head off.

Exercise. Control. Self-confidence. I found a lot of these in training in self-defence, but the headcases could as easily pick up an iron bar and arm themselves that way rather then train for years.

All of this should be done under the watchful eye of a GOOD sensei who will enforce CONTROL as the number one thing for you to learn. Any headcases should be weeded out by the sensei early on...

I only once came out of a sparring session with an injury (a black eye and cut eyebrow). The bloke tried it on with the blackbelt too and never returned after that!

Fighting isnt romantic, neither is anger.

DeV.