Esat say that we don't want broadband

hmmm

From Ireland.com today

Dismissing the announcement as "empty rhetoric", Esat-BT said take-up of its own consumer broadband service, launched late last year and priced at the same level as that envisaged by Eircom, had been disappointing. It is obvious that the public wants flat-rate dial-up access rather than broadband , a spokeswoman said.

I could write a little essay about this quote but I'll resist.

Maybe Esat can think about a few things:
- we want both
- your consumer dsl product is slow
- your product is unavailable to the majority of the country
- I haven't seen a single advert for it
- It's capped
- It's still expensive for the residential user

Oh, and I had a letter exchange with an Esat spokeswoman in the Sunday Times a while back, where I decried Esat talking about a product that was "announced" but was unavailable. Funny how the shoe is on the other foot now and they're complaining.

Hopefully our best bet is for a reduced wholesale charge that allows someone like UTV enter the DSL market.

naitkris

it's slow take-up cause it's still expensive compared to elsewhere. how would you feel seeing: "0.5MB/s DSL for 28 Euro a month" on holiday and then come back to Ireland and get offered a product for more than twice the price and half the speed? plus it's very new to Ireland and with all things new, people are usually cautious and slow to take-up things.

you'd think Esat would do their research from experience in other European countries:

cheap, quality broadband = high take-up
expensive, below standard broadband = low take-up

scojones

why just bitch about it here, why not email them?

eth0_

Maybe if there was a little _Advertising_ used, instead of a tiny little box on iol.ie, more people would be aware of it.

That and the outrageous price.

SkepticOne

I emailed them asking when it would be available out of my local exchange (Esat's business priced DSL is there). No answer as yet. Can't take it up if it is not available.

saik

if it were in my area, i'd have it

scojones

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I emailed them asking when it would be available out of my local exchange (Esat's business priced DSL is there). No answer as yet. Can't take it up if it is not available.

I emailed them and phoned them yesterday. It's available in my local exchange but i won't be getting BB until the summer because i'm in college till then. I'm going to email them and tell them why people aren't taking up their BB service - and that we DO want both BB and flat rate.

dahamsta

This is just pure sour grapes on the part of Esat. I can understand their logic for bleating about it, but it's really very immature when you look at it:

They wanted to concentrate on business for a while longer, to try and squeeze as much as possible out of the first movers before they went for the mass market. There's a (relatively) good reason for this, in that they're trying to clear as much of their setup costs as possible now, so they can justify more expenditure to BT in the near future. Eircom has just scuppered that plan, and now it's going to be much harder for them to expand -- they'll do it, but the numbers aren't going to look as good to BT, and BT will make them sing for their supper.

In other words, it's a bizarre irony, in that taken from another angle, Eircom is actually driving competition in the marketplace. But of course this doesn't excuse the underlying anti-competitive behaviour by Eircom, which is far worse than what Esat is trying to do here.

adam

theciscokid

i actually can't believe a spokesperson for esat bt said that,

im so proud of irish internet users,

they know a crap deal when they hear it,

and they didn't buy into it

MDR

Uptake is slow because you need to flat-rate dialup for a year to before a demand for broadband is built ....

kevinof

I know someone in ESAT - Their current dsl offering is limited ot 256 because that's all their switches can handle. if they could get 512 they would sell it. I fully expect them to have a 512 offering more competitive than Eircom's once the new wholesale prices are sorted out.

As for not advertising the current one- Thats because they only have a limited number of ports. Each DSL switch can only handle 24 users which severely limits the possible takeup of this service.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by kevinof
As for not advertising the current one- Thats because they only have a limited number of ports. Each DSL switch can only handle 24 users which severely limits the possible takeup of this service.

LOL. "Our equipment limits take up to small numbers, therefore we have concluded that people don't want it."

spongebob

Originally posted by SkepticOne
LOL. "Our equipment limits take up to small numbers, therefore we have concluded that people don't want it."

"The government paid for the fibre but we had to pay for the DSLAM ourselves, sniffle , whinge."

M

sceptre

Originally posted by eth0_
Maybe if there was a little _Advertising_ used, instead of a tiny little box on iol.ie, more people would be aware of it.

That and the outrageous price.

Hear that sound?

That's a nail being hit on the head.

Esat seem to be maintaining that there's obviously no demand for broadband as the limited service they launched and pretty much forgot to tell anyone about attracted a third of the customers in a month that Ercom had attracted in two years.

I'd dearly love a broadband connection, even with a reasonable cap. I'm just not going to spend a silly amount for something that isn't very good. Esat have been trying to milk business customers in the same way Eircom have, offering a more limited product in order to get a few residential customers who were either desperate for broadband or didn't know they were being charged a lot of money compared to everywhere else. Esat plain forgot to tell people that their residential product was on the market - there were a few adverts but no placements in the national papers, no big press releases, no nutty product launch. If you build it, they may come - but they won't know about it unless you tell them.

I don't like Eircom's recent tactics of announcing a product and then thinking about a wholesale rate later. Esat deserve a slap for their recent shenannigans though - they can't justify their recent pricing structures and now they've been caught on the hop. If Esat had halved their broadband prices (not being limited by the Eircom wholesale rate their price is up to them) they'd either have the broadband market to themselves or would have started a price war that Eircom would have had to take part in. They thought it would be the latter, therefore they didn't start it. Boo hoo. It's not too late though - they can still get off their collectives and do it. They'll just look like they're reacting to another price slash though and bear some of the brunt of the customer who realises that they're overcharging.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by kevinof
I know someone in ESAT - Their current dsl offering is limited ot 256 because that's all their switches can handle. if they could get 512 they would sell it. I fully expect them to have a 512 offering more competitive than Eircom's once the new wholesale prices are sorted out.

But they do sell 512k ADSL so their equipment is capable of it. Keep the 20:1 ratio for businesses.

All they need to do is bring down the price. If bandwidth is expensive (maybe it is, I don't know) then increase the contention ratio to 50:1 like their parent company.

As has been suggested:

1. Bring out a 512k 50:1 residential product at 35 euros. MRBI research shows that there's 3-4 times the demand at this price rather than 60 euros.
2. No cap. I agree with longword that caps are fairer but they don't seem to need it in Britain. No cap products are popular even with light users because they don't need to worry about download amounts.
3. Advertise a bit more. I know that this will be expensive for the small number of exchanges, but word will get around from an initially small base.

I can't believe that Esat are really trying. Also, if they say there's no demand (which contradicts market research) why are they getting so worked up about Eircom's recent announcement.

kevinof

Just to clear up some misunderstandings - ESAT have 512k service under their business offerings. This is their copper/fibre going into a business site. The exchange end goes directly to the ESAT network.

With residential DSL ESAT cannot go directly to the home -they must use Eircom. This means that the copper comes from your home to the exchange, then gets split to Eircom for the voice and ESAT for the DSL. From the ESAT DSL box it then goes back onto the Eircom DSL network and NOT onto the ESAT network. This means that ESAT have to purchase the DSL connection from Eircom and its Eircom that have refused to supply a 512 connection at a reasonable. price. The only way ESAT could get residential DSL out (to a limited number of customers) at anything near an acceptable price was to reduce the bandwidth.

highlight

This is complete rubbish.
Both services are provided over unbundled local loops
The way you describe it. I think you mean bitstream, but Esat don't use this

pingofdeath

Originally posted by hmmm


Oh, and I had a letter exchange with an Esat spokeswoman in the Sunday Times a while back, where I decried Esat talking about a product that was "announced" but was unavailable. Funny how the shoe is on the other foot now and they're complaining.

Hopefully our best bet is for a reduced wholesale charge that allows someone like UTV enter the DSL market.

ESAT BT have a few hundred thousand internet customers acquired directly and inherited from IOL, Ocean etc.

Have they bothered to snailmail or e-mail them to propose that they upgrade to DSL?

I certainly haven’t heard from them. Has anyone else?

Last time I visited their website they had no information on DSL for residential subscribers and no mention of their 256k sub-broadband offering either.

ESAT BT’s pricing has matched eircom’s within a percent or two. Why risk using them? Only a few months ago they were talking about pulling out of the market unless they made some quick money.

Is it any wonder that Ireland is so behind the rest of Europe when it comes to telecommunications and broadband?

pingO

SkepticOne

Originally posted by kevinof
Just to clear up some misunderstandings - ESAT have 512k service under their business offerings. This is their copper/fibre going into a business site. The exchange end goes directly to the ESAT network.

Wrong. They supply ADSL over Eircom's copper lines with their own equipment installed in Eircom's exchange under LLU regulations. They are free to run what ever service they like provided the within the normal range of DSL services. They are not running their own lines out to businesses.

With residential DSL ESAT cannot go directly to the home -they must use Eircom. This means that the copper comes from your home to the exchange, then gets split to Eircom for the voice and ESAT for the DSL. From the ESAT DSL box it then goes back onto the Eircom DSL network and NOT onto the ESAT network. This means that ESAT have to purchase the DSL connection from Eircom and its Eircom that have refused to supply a 512 connection at a reasonable. price. The only way ESAT could get residential DSL out (to a limited number of customers) at anything near an acceptable price was to reduce the bandwidth.

No. Exactly the same method is being used to provide their residential service.

DeVore

Originally posted by sjones
why just bitch about it here, why not email them?

Because:

1. They read here. They have told me this (in fact Regi and I have a good laugh about the RIPE ip's that infest this board. I've had both marketing managers from the main telcos admit that they read IOFFL most days. Its an excellent source of info for gods sake hahah..

2. An email is a single communication from a person who is already severely pissed off (and so theres no real reason to bother about him/her) which can safely be dumped into a bit bucket and even if it isnt its dealt with by some unlucky and underpowered support droid who can do jack about it.

3. By posting here (or somewhere similar) you create waves. You gather others of like mind and the whole is more then the sum of the parts.

Since people here are being affected the (aforementioned) marketing managers get very antsy about it. You see, the people here are what are known in marketing-spek as KDI's (Key Decision Influencers). Those people are the holy grail for Sales and Marketing managers.

KDI's are the people who you go to when you need an independant, informed opinion. Technology KDI's are particularly sought after because most people realise they know jack all about computers and so will seek out a KDI.

Ever have a mate, uncle, family member, class mate or colleague ask your opinion about what tech to buy or what telco to use?
I am willing to bet that most of you have... many times...

If so then you are a KDI and your opinion means a LOT more then joe-punter because you influence a LOT of sales.

When Marketing Managers see LOTS of KDI's getting annoyed... it *can* (not always) spur them to do something about it.

There you go now

DeV.

saik

I'm usually too annoyed at the state of broadband to post near anything related to it. If yer reading this, get your arse in gear. You've NO IDEA how many people ASK ME AND ME ALONE about THINGS LIKE THIS.

dahamsta

They read here.

At least two of my contacts have told me that the IrelandOffline forum has become like Coronation Street to them and their colleagues. They can't switch it off. We call them rubberneckers.

<adam waves at the rubberneckers>

adam

Dustaz

Can i be Ashley so ? oh wait, maxine is gone..forget it so.

Dev, that kdi post is excellent. I want to print it out and nail it to certain indivduals heads, lest they ever forget.

BTW, if this post seems a little spammy, well, its in response to the statement by esat. Its about all it deserves.

dahamsta

Can i be Ashley so ? oh wait, maxine is gone..forget it so.

No Dusty. You're Fred, I say, Fred Elliot.

adam

Balfa

i don't know how esat can say there's no demand!

i've entered tonnes of phone numbers i know into their availabilty tool and none of them can get DSL!

it seems that the residential DSL is just a token offering, probably just to help the uptake of business DSL (after they explain how much better it is) and possibly just so they can beat eircom to the residential DSL market and say silly things in interviews/press releases like "we launched that last year and no one's buying it"

Bring on UTV's bitstream product!

shinzon

I was going to get BB as the exchange is quite near my home, the line tests past and everything, but now that i read here about caps and the price comparisons with other countries, ESAT can forget it, its an exhorbitant price, considering in the UK, you canget BB for as little as 27.99 a month sterling.

My only hope is that when FRIACO comes out in the summer that it is competively priced and that the demnad will drive down the price of Broadband, then and only then would i even consider looking at Broadband again

Shin

ednwireland

I really don't understand this argument about ESAT being better than eircom etc since BT took over service has disappeared (to bt standards - i.e non existant) and all they've done is slightly undercut eircom - if they were serious they would have introduced the package the same as UK (on exchanges they could - cos of the interconnect price) and wiped eircom out, they were happy enough to follow the eircom price admittedly uncapped. this is classic of the lack of competition in ireland supermarkets don't compete all the main supermarkets basically follow each others prices. and esat have done the same they deserve nothing in terms of respect from the irish consumer the only thing they've done is pull a package they had (nolimits) instead of fighting to keep it.

admit it they are as bad as eircom.

strettie1

do not think there is a demand for broadband !!!

So how come this is true in the land of their parent company

http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_744244.html?menu=


Ananova:

Internet users flocking to broadband

Record numbers of UK households and businesses are signing up for broadband Internet services, telecoms regulator Oftel has announced.

Industry figures show almost 30,000 subscribers a week are switching to broadband, taking the total number in the UK to more than 1.4 million.

When Oftel announced the number of homes and businesses with broadband had reached 500,000 last May, new subscriptions were running at around 20,000 a week.

Separate research conducted by Oftel found a big rise in the number of people aware of the benefits of broadband.

Last February, 32% of people already connected to the Internet - but not with a broadband connection - knew about the new technology. In the same survey of just over 2,300 users last November the figure had risen to 70%.

Around 42% of UK households are connected to the Internet, either with a standard or broadband connection.

Advantages of broadband include connection speeds to the Internet up to 40 times faster than a standard connection.

Users are also permanently connected, meaning their computer does not need to dial-up each time they wish to log on.


Story filed: 17:24 Monday 27th January 2003

zynaps

That's interesting.... thanks dev, I hadn't thought about it like that

Since we're obviously all valuable commodities in a sense to these telcos, you think we could offer to become corrupt and sway people to them if they paid us some kind of commission? :P

Up eircom

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