Tricky

LegacyUser

This could be a long one but I will try and keep it brief. Also, it's not a moan about my circumstances I just want to see if others have been in or are in similar situations and how they handled it. Purpose of any post on this forum I suppose.

I have been going out with my GF for four years, and we are also engaged now for about a year. We pretty much have an idyllic relationship with each giving the other plenty of space to get on with themselves and I could count the arguments we have had on little more than the fingers on one hand. What I have noticed on a semi regular basis is that when my time gets stretched i.e. got a lot going on socially or work wise, or just sh*t on my mind, my GF gets really short with me because my attention is divided. I was going to say that I dont think it's my fault that my attention is divided and that it happens to the best of us, but I will let you make up your own mind on that one. Where was I? Oh yes. The pattern seems to play out something like this:

Me: Tonnes of sh*t on, pillar to post, never stop moving etc etc rah rah rah. Any time off = completley veg to the point of absence of speech. Happy to sit in silence with arms around GF as mind calms down.

GF: Assumes somthing is wrong with the relationship, prods and prods until sparks fly.

Me: Dont rise to it as I feel there is nothing to rise to. I am also loathe to explain what is going on from the point of view that she has seen this happen before and knows that a day or two later everything will be fine and more importantly that the relationship is fine. I feel, hence, that she should recognise the signs when they happen (silence is a dead give away with me as typically I never shut the F*ck up) and get on with it rather than jump to the wrong conclusion. We also discuss this at length every time it happens to the point where I have kinda hit "Explanation fatigue".

Anyway, I got into detail there when I shouldent have, and all this has led me to asking myself after similar such thing happend last night, whether I can stay with my GF through marriage, life, children etc. Before you jump on the bandwagon of "you shouldent have proposed till you knew how you felt" let me tell you that yes, I did think long and hard about it. Five years ago the idea of marriage would have been as alien to me as a Clingon, but I came around. Am I being selfish in thinking that she should provide me with the support, encouragement or time out whenever I need it as I do for her? Dont get me wrong, she's a brilliant person, just needs company more than I do and doesnt do being on her own, hence when I get really busy, shít hits fan. I am beginning to detest the idea that when I am free she wants all of my time. I hear some of you saying "Of course she wants your time, you're engaged for fúcks sake and this is the way it's gonna be from now on", but is that how it is supposed to be full stop end of story? Is it supposed to be a case of stuck to the hip till death do us part or can it be like Alanis says: "One plus one makes two"?

Anyway, I'll cut my rambling short (LOL) and ask if any of you ex-engagedees or currently engaged people out there feel the same way? Did some of you ex-married people, or considering being ex-married people feel the same? Is this frame of mind something that can be changed?

Note: This isnt a clear case of "Dump her now man and do her and you a favour". It's a bit more complex than that. Nor is it a case of "Go talk to your friends, thats what they're their for". They would be if they were ever in the same situation. Unfortunately for me and by token fortunately for them, none of them have.

thedrowner

well im not engaged yet and ive never been so i dont know if my advice is of any help to you, but i think you're right. i dont think any relationship works if you spend all your free time together, you both need time apart to do your own thing. if she can't see that well maybe there is a problem....have you tried telling her? also, you should probably tell her what you told us about her picking at the relationship when youve got somehting else on your mind. if she can't see your side of it, then you should ask yourself if you could spend the rest of your life with someone like that...but give her a chance first by telling her whats bothering you!

Kell

Perhaps you should sit her down and speak to her direct about it. Very tricky one to get advice for on the Boards........... Not that all the boardsters arent highly qualified to deal with all manner of social problems...............(ahem)

LegacyUser

Drowner- yes, it has been explained several times in the past, hence the "Explanation fatigue". One thing that really concerns me though is am I going to be one of these dumb fúcks who says adios GF and then goes "Fúck. What the fúck did I just do there".

Also, and this is in fairness to my GF, I can do with really minimal human contact. Solitude doesnt bother me however all of my GF's ever, have wanted more and more and more of my time. When GF wants to go and do whatever, thats cool with me no problems, and I have never understood it not being reciprocated. Hmmnn, I am travelling in circles here methinks.

Beruthiel

she sounds a little insecure and a little afraid she is loosing you, hence the questions. She maybe thinking you are bored with her as you are always off doing other things. She should probably find something she likes doing herself, or see her own friends more, this will fill her time and she won't be so bothered about what your up to.
question - how much time a week do you spend with her? personally think that being 'stuck to the hip' as you put it, is unhealthy for both people, however there is no doubt that women need some attention, (especially in a long term relationship) sitting on the couch in front of the telly watching a video doesn't count (although personally I like to do that) being brought out to dinner or some flowers can do wonders for showing you still care.
Dumping her over something like this would be silly, unless it is really bothering you, but I think you will find that in any long term relationship, it is hard to keep the attention as you become used to each other and keeping it fresh is now something you have to really work at, where once it just came natural.

What I don't understand, is, if you have explained more than once that you are tired, why does she keep asking? Is there something you have left out or is she forgetful? perhaps you need a sign for round your neck that says "tired tonight, not up to talking, revert to explanation from last week on subject!"

thedrowner

yeah i completely agree beruthial. personally, i dont feel it's a problem that should be the end of your engagement, from the sounds of it (but you know better than we do). it sounds more liek one of those problems that seems huge, but you work hard at sorting it out and then it brings you closer together (he he...in a way that doesnt bother ya!).

LegacyUser

Insecure- yes (no reason)
Lacking in confidence- yes (no reason. Everyone loves her. I really mean that. Sometimes I think that some of my friends like her just a bit too much)

Another brief explanation into the phsyche of the relationship- GF is an equestrian instructor and she works every day till five or whatever, teaches 2 nights of the week and one of the days of the weekend, or both sometimes. She moved over from her country of origin (sorry, have to conceal where. I dont know who's surfing here) three years ago, but has no friends of her own that she see's socially. She is best of friends with my best friends but WILL NOT go and see them in my absence as she is not confident enough to do it, even after three years. To answer you're question Beruthiel, we see eachother three nights and two full days of the week and share the same weekend hobbies.

In terms of trying to keep things fresh, when there isnt shít on my mind, she gets flowers, showered with presents, taken out for dinner (extortionately expensive ones) made intimate dinners at home, and anything else besides that I can think of and I do go out of my way to do nice things for her.

In relation to her forgetting to why I might be in a *****er of a humour? Thats complicated. Reason: If I am joking or being serious, my tone of voice and facial expression doesnt lend itself to one or the other. No one can differentiate between me being serious about something or taking the piss, so me being quiet can be misconstrued as me either a) having something on my mind or b) taking the piss. Having said that, she never asks if I am taking the piss or not. I respect her enough and honest enough to tell the truth all the time. I know what I have just said contradicts the "Well, if you were honest with her you would tell her whats on your mind" but it doesnt really. I am just bored of explaining myself to someone that should know me as intimately as she does. Her apathy in terms of sticking her neck out and risking a bad reaction from me galls me as well and makes me feel a lesser person because I wonder "Am I really that awful that she wont risk a negative reaction?"

If the next poster thinks along the lines of "well are you that awful" a few points-

I go out of my way not to fight nor raise my voice. If I swear at her rather than swear in the course of an argument, I always apologise. When proved wrong, I always apologise and I always give quarter to others arguments.

LegacyUser

Originally posted by thedrowner
but you work hard at sorting it out and then it brings you closer together

Been working to sort it out for four years and there is no way forward or back. I am an extremely secure, confident and independant bloke. My GF couldent be more diametrically opposite. For the same argument not to crop up again and again and again would require a) me changing my lifestyle to suit someone. I love her to bits but I think it's unfair to change to suit someone else. There's compromise and there's daft, or b) she adjusts her approach to how she handles me which again is unfair this time to her. We have tried to resovle this many many times and I just feel this to be more of a fundamental difference of opinion and that the basis of the problem is HUGE. The frequency of it's occurence is not what matters here, it's whats causing the problem in the first place.

thedrowner

Her apathy in terms of sticking her neck out and risking a bad reaction from me galls me as well and makes me feel a lesser person because I wonder "Am I really that awful that she wont risk a negative reaction?"

i kind of wondered at that, i thought if most people suspected trouble in a relationship they would either try and fix it, or else steer clear of bringing it up for fear of fuelling dumping!!! it's odd that she brings about this trouble herself.

well, tbh, i would've thought the amount of time you spend together was normal for a couple who are together for years.

ive seen an example of what youre talking about regardning friendships though, with my brother and his wife. when they first started going out i was worried because coz she never seemed to go out her self, she'd either stay at home, or go out with him, she didnt have many friends. but now she's got loads of friends from work and she goes out with them. i dont know how you'd go about encouraging her to make her own friends!

Beruthiel

not much more I can add - I can relate here, as my bloke is French and even though he is in Ireland 5 years, has no Irish friends, (luckily he worked with a gang of French, so he's ok) I am nearly sure that no matter where she comes from, there are places she can go to meet others from her own country - though how you go about finding them is nothing something I can tell you)
she sounds dreadfully shy if she cannot hang out with your friends by herself, after all this, back to the confidence thingie again - plus I would also say, it is unusual not to have the odd shouting match this long into a relationship, she sounds like she's scared of loosing you if she does.

LegacyUser

The work thing is odd- she doesnt have any other colleagues save for when she free-lances at night, so fraternising with people she works with on a daily basis is a non runner. Her teaching at night consists of people she teaches, and students who work at the place that she free lances at, again making it difficult.

As I mentioned earlier, everyone that I know (and there are quite a few) fúcking adore the ground she walks on, but she just cant see that and wont take the initiative, call them and go for a pint or whatever. Her apathy goes with her work situation as well. She complains daily about having to do X, Y & Z and how she never has time for this that and the other, but does nothing about it. TBH sometimes I just sit in silence and look blankly at her when she asks me a question about work or simply say "Does it really make a difference what I say, cos you're going to do f*ck all about it". I am sorry if that sounds really unsupportive, but I have been supportive to someone who wont do anything about a situation that bothers them for four years and they still do nothing. On a normal basis, I have zero patience, and I mean zero, for anyone. I was born on the delivery trolley and have been an impatient fúck ever since. I have extended a tremendous amoutn of patience and support for her own issues, and she knows it and has thanked me for it, but I am running out of patience rapidly.

I have to say that the distinct absence of the "You're engaged and thats what you should expect" surprises me. Seems more people here believe in one and one make two than I thought.

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Guptah
I have to say that the distinct absence of the "You're engaged and thats what you should expect" surprises me. Seems more people here believe in one and one make two than I thought.

nope - not even slightly true!
I was married for quite some time and now I'm not.........
afterall, this is about what you want, not what we think you should want,
what is it that you really want at the end of the day? can you see yourself with her in ten years time, with kids, does it look good? would you be lost without her?
remember, there is no such thing as a perfect relationship despite what the movies tell ya!

LegacyUser

Originally posted by Beruthiel
she sounds dreadfully shy if she cannot hang out with your friends by herself,

There's another rub. I know some people, my best mate is a prime example, who are painfully shy. My best mate when introduced to people says hello and then waits until they spark a conversation and responds with single sentence answers.

Anyway, I digress. The point is, she is not painfully shy. In fact, she blossoms in a crowd and you can see from the expression on peoples faces that they love to listen to her speak and they love to speak to her, it's just getting her to that point is the tricky bit if she wont do it on her own.

Subpoint- her father has swings of manic depression. He has, in the past , got as far as someones door at a party and wont go any further for fear that people will be laughing at him for some reason and he feels he is second class to them. GF suffers something similar sometimes but to a much lesser degree and I cant help with that. You need qualifications to deal with things like that, as I have said to her, but once again she does fúck all about it.

Subpoint II: Maybe there's more going on in my head than I was initially aware of thats been brought out by chatting to you. Cheers and keep it coming. Someone might just have the majik answer somewhere.

Beruthiel

Someone might just have the majik answer somewhere.

don't hold your breath on that one!

LegacyUser

Originally posted by Beruthiel
can you see yourself with her in ten years time, with kids, does it look good? would you be lost without her?

Yes I can see myself with her in ten years time, with kids, horses, dogs, ducks rah rah and yes it does look good. No I wouldent be lost without her. I dont want to get married to someone though, when the expectation of what each partner can deliver is flawed. Using my parents example, mother rants daily about dad. I used to agree with her, now I just tell her to not have such high expectations of him because he is simply not going to be able to deliver. I am deafeningly frightened of that prospect applying to my situation.

Mercury_Tilt

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Beruthiel

good question Mercie
perhaps Guptah is having a bout of 'cold feet'

Mercury_Tilt

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Beruthiel

I didn't want to say much on that as my own feeling on the subject are quite cynical - marriages are wonderful and all will be happy ever after in Fairyland, in the real world however, it's a bunch of tosh and most of them turn out to be crap after X amount of years go by, there are very few 60 year olds out there still behaving wonderfully towards each other! The ones that do exist are miracles imho

*and no, I'm not bitter at all!!

LegacyUser

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
I have some thoughts on this matter. Which are not important but I am interested in his answer none the less.

You can be assured he wont like it. But such is life.

No date set as yet. Circumstances are such that she plan on moving from this shít hole county to not very much further north of here where she is from in about two to three years time when it is financially viable to do so. In the meantime, there is zero point in setting dates, buying houses or anything else besides until we have the cash to buy said house and organise marriage in other country. If it were a case of the weddings in three months, I doubt if I would be having cold feet. Actual events dont phase me, it's the basis of them that does.

Beruthiel, I have to say that I think it is possible to find the perfect partner. Dont think I am blind to idiosyncrocies in relationships nor the occasional argument, but I think if both partners share the same opinions about what they expect from eachother, then it works smoothly. If one partners perception of the relationship is different to that of the others then obviously it cant work or needs to be addressed. To restate a point, we have tried to address this problem everytime it occurs to no avail, hence me being here requesting advice, and I really appreciate your advice Beruthiel. You've mentioned that you had been through a marriage on other posts and before I wrote the original post I had kinda hoped you would interject with some real experience assistance. No, I am not taking the piss nor being sooky.

Beruthiel

I think if both partners share the same opinions about what they expect from eachother, then it works smoothly.

I would tend to agree, in my case I was much too young and had changed so much that by the time I hit 30 I was someone completely different and had out grown him to such a degree that there was only one thing to do, leave.

we have tried to address this problem everytime it occurs to no avail, hence me being here requesting advice,

but obviously it is not being addressed to both parties satisfaction, otherwise it wouldn't keep coming up, she is giving you lip service and not saying what's truly on her mind, otherwise wouldn't it be sorted??
or perhaps she thinks that 'sorted out now' means you are going to fix it!!

as for my personal experience, just 'cos this happened to me doesn't mean it will happen to others or in the same way or for the same reasons. I sometimes tend to think that back in the day people stayed together because they could put up with a lot more sh*te then we will now - so I tend to believe that a relationship can last longer if your tolerance to sh*t is high

sooky.

never heard of that word!

Mercury_Tilt

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Beruthiel

Any one in need of a ring…PM me

is it white gold Mercie? if so, I'll take it off your hands, no strings mind you!

btw - good post

ps - good luck with the moon thingie

LegacyUser

Firstly-

No I dont treat her as a posession. In my experience people who treat others as objects generally dont like them to do anything for themselves, and more to the point, like to prevent them doing anything for themselves. Again, repeating a point, I encourage her to do her own thing and everyone loves her for reasons of their very own.

Expensive gesture of love?- about six months ago I decided that my work position while good, doesn't allow me enough manouvreability to make as much money as I could potentially make elsewhere. I was offered a new job yesterday with more career and earning potential than you can shake a stick at. Why? I need to be able to plan for a house and a wedding. If thats not actively planning for a future together what the fúck is?

If I go to the pub, it's done on a basis where it's not upsetting anyone, otherwise I wouldent go unless I was pis*ed off enough to go in spite, which never happens.

Sacrifice? The word NO doesn't exist in my vocabulary when I am speaking to my GF.

Lastly- interesting that someone jumped to the assumption that I am basing a good looking chick on my arm as a basis for marriage. Where the f*ck did someone get that idea from? If all she was, was some good looking chick I wouldent be here asking people for the experiences and how they dealt with them. The fact remains that she owns my heart up to the point where I see her expectation of me is flawed. The point I am trying to make is, is marrying someone where there is a flaw in the basis of the relationship a resonsible thing to do when every other day, everything is hunkey dorey?

Sooky= looking for attention from a specific person. Sooking up to someone= licking up to someone.

Mercury_Tilt

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LegacyUser

Merc- apologies for my direct references to your points from earlier. You did pre-empt my reaction a few posts back, and you're right, I didnt like your opinion, but there you go. If any mod is looking on, I respectfully ask if you can close this thread as I have actually succeeded in depressing myself even further than I was when I started it.

Mercury_Tilt

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Gordon

I would hate to close this thread before it made you happy, but if that is what you want really...

LegacyUser

Scholars? I drive past it every morning and evening en route to and from work. I was thinking about getting langers earlier today actually and it seems to be becoming an acutely better idea. Cheers Gordie, if I am not too late.

pickarooney

So you're sitting there pissed off, not wanting to talk about it because you reckon it will do you no good, and you've explained it 1000 times before. She prods and pokes you to talk about it because she wants to help. She needs to know you need her and she wants to solve your problems for you. You resent her intrusions, not because her intentions are bad, but because you have a different way of dealing with pissed off and know it will pass in its own good time, or you'll deal with it yourself. This hurts her as it makes her feel useless. You eventually get around to making up stuff just to get her to stop asking and to avoid repeating the same thing over and over. She sees through it and convinces herself (if she hasn't already) that she is the problem. You can't convince her otherwise, and now you're more pissed off than before because she's actually made herself be part of an enlarged problem.

Anywhere near the mark? Youse need a holiday urgently I reckon,
and not a trip to her country, somewhere sunny and neutral.

Kell

I thought this thread was closed anyways?

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Kell
I thought this thread was closed anyways?

nope
we can't let him leave 'till we have him un-depressed

Kell

Yes but, he has asked a mod to close the thread twice now. I think someone should accept his wishes and acquiesce to them. In fairness.

LegacyUser

This is an echo of the post I made earlier. Please close, ose, ose, ose.............................................

For those interested, I have spent the weekend thinking about it and if I decide anything, I'll be sure to let you all know. Bad time to give up smoking eh? You can all congratulate me for being in cold turkey for a week now even in light of current events.

Gordon

Apologies Guptah, I must have missed your first reply on 24th and not seen the new message. Have been AFM (away from Mac) today.

Shame this had to be closed, I'd prefer if you continued with your news when you come back on this thread but - each to their own I guess. Let me or smiles or SheroN know if you want this opened. You would have to register to do this though.

Congrats on the turkey.