Eircoms dsl questions?

Dcully · 23-01-2003 7:38pm #1

Ok guys im on isdn at the moment and have a couple of questions about todays announcement of BB from eircom.

What exactly will i need to pay if i opt for it.
Installation ,monthly rental,

Now heres my real issue, Do i pay for time online also ?
It may seem a silly question but im not familiar with the ins and outs of it all.

bk · 23-01-2003 7:42pm

You don't pay for you time online, you just pay the flat fee. However this new DSL product has a 4 GB cap. That means that you can download up to 4 GB of data for "free", after that you will probably pay for each extra MB you donload :mad:

De Rebel · 23-01-2003 7:47pm

First off you'd be getting rid of your ISDN, or getting an additional line installed, you can't have ISDN and ADSL on the same copper.

You obviously pay the installation fee, and the cost of an ADSL modem.

And each month, you pay for line rental and the €54.45 for ADSl, plus the cost of any voice calls.

The good news is that the €54.45 gives you 24/7 online connection - no minute by minute charges for being online.

molinaalexis · 23-01-2003 7:57pm

Will those 4 gig cap include web pages surfed ?

Dustaz · 23-01-2003 8:17pm

Yes, the 4gb includes all downstream traffic in the month.

(if you dont do anything illegal, or inexplicably need to download 3 linux distros per month, 4gb is usually workable)

Dcully · 24-01-2003 5:25am

What about my current isp?
At the moment im using isdn with nolimits.
Will i continue with them or whats the story?
Since u guys say i dont pay for time online does this mean once i get dsl im with eircom and access the net through them and only pay for normal line rental and dsl rental?

milltown · 24-01-2003 6:18am

Originally posted by Dustaz
Yes, the 4gb includes all downstream traffic in the month.

(if you dont do anything illegal, or inexplicably need to download 3 linux distros per month, 4gb is usually workable)

Define illegal for me D. Are we talking d/ling music or movies or both?

If so I can't imagine too many people wanting it for much else!

Washout · 24-01-2003 9:49am

What about for people who would like to use DSl for sttreaming audio and video?. 4 gigs is not an awful lot for such activities.

Dustaz · 24-01-2003 11:21am

What about my current isp?
What about my current isp?
At the moment im using isdn with nolimits.
Will i continue with them or whats the story?
Since u guys say i dont pay for time online does this mean once i get dsl im with eircom and access the net through them and only pay for normal line rental and dsl rental?

If you order dsl from eircom, eircom become your isp. and yes you only pay for the line rental and the dsl line (plus any charges related to caps if they decide to charge you.)

Originally posted by milltown
Define illegal for me D. Are we talking d/ling music or movies or both?

If so I can't imagine too many people wanting it for much else!

Im fuzzy on the legalities and its been done to death on other boards here, but downloading copyrighted material such as songs or movies without the owners express permission is illegal.

matthiku · 24-01-2003 11:42am

First off you'd be getting rid of your ISDN, or getting an additional line installed, you can't have ISDN and ADSL on the same copper.

This is something I hear again and again and still can't believe it - in the sense that it is really a technical requirement.

I know from Germany, where afaik more ISDN lines are installed then in any other country in the world, nobody was forced to give up his ISDN line before hen could get ADSL. (Addendum: I just checked the documentation from the incumbent Deutsche Telekom: it doesn't matter wheter you have ISDN or POTS, you will get it for both!)

See this sketch of an ISDN/DSL combination, as it is the standard in Germany.

highlight · 24-01-2003 12:44pm

You can technically have ADSL and ISDN on the same line - however the issue is with the NTU in the customer's home, it's not available.

SkepticOne · 24-01-2003 12:50pm

Originally posted by highlight
You can technically have ADSL and ISDN on the same line - however the issue is with the NTU in the customer's home, it's not available.

This would rule out self-install kits but could you not have the engineer install the splitter before the ISDN box in the house?

matthiku · 24-01-2003 2:02pm

Originally posted by SkepticOne
... could you not have the engineer install the splitter before the ISDN box in the house?

That's exactly how it has to be done:

copper wire ----> {NTU}

>{Splitter}

{Splitter Out1}---->{ISDN TA}

>{phone}
{Splitter Out2}---->{DSL Modem}---->{PC}

The splitter always has to come first, whether it's an analog line or an ISDN line - and the same has to be done in the Exchange:

{ISDN line}--+
{DSL line}---+---{Splitter}--->copper wire

De Rebel · 24-01-2003 2:23pm

Originally posted by matthiku
See this sketch of an ISDN/DSL combination, as it is the standard in Germany.

Any of the more technical people know why the layout shown in that diagram is not provided in this country? Is there a technical reason? something to do with the equipment in the exchanges?

It would certainly suite me to have that, cause I need both DSL and ISDN.

Calibos · 24-01-2003 2:45pm

Sorry I've a couple of questions:)

I've got isdn and am on utvip. It occured to me that if I was to get DSL(hopefully from UTV), the isdn box and its second line would be taken out thus my line rental would be back to €40/bi-monthly bill from €80(saving €20/month) so in effect from my point of view I would be getting DSL for approx €35 euro extra on my bill per month.(assuming retail pricepoint of €55 for DSL) Am I right?

She who must be obeyed however put a spanner in the works by saying she wanted to keep the second isdn phoneline or its number at the very least which only VIP's know:D(annoying relations!!:rolleyes: ) Is this possible. ie get rid of isdn and old number but keep the newer isdn number?

Excepting my own reasons outlined above, what other reason could you have for wanting to keep your isdn and dsl at the same time??

Originally posted by SKepticOne
This would rule out self-install kits but could you not have the engineer install the splitter before the ISDN box in the house?

So no self install for anyone with isdn?

With regard to contention ratio's. Does each DSL user on an exchange connect to the same DSLAM until its full and then the next DSLAM comes online as it were, meaning your bound to be sharing the line with other users most of the time or is it that each DSLAM in an exchange serves a certain part of the town meaning that if you live in a part of the town with mostly Tech illiterate OAP's:D, you probably have that DSLAM to yourself most of the time??

the Guru · 24-01-2003 2:49pm

Originally posted by De Rebel
First off you'd be getting rid of your ISDN, or getting an additional line installed, you can't have ISDN and ADSL on the same copper.

You obviously pay the installation fee, and the cost of an ADSL modem.

And each month, you pay for line rental and the €54.45 for ADSl, plus the cost of any voice calls.

The good news is that the €54.45 gives you 24/7 online connection - no minute by minute charges for being online.

Dont get rid of your Line if you have a Hi Speed Line it will cost
about €20 odd euros to revert back to PSTN if you have a basic rate it will cost €107 becasue there was never a pstn line there in the first place ........ first call eircom and get your ISDN line checked for DSL if it is sucessfull then and Only then Downgrade as you will be taking a chance on the New PSTN line passing.

Personnally I would not read into the Pricing cap or installaion prices as they will most likely be changed by comreg

There are 2 types DIY self install of the Spiltter price not Given and the Normal of €165 for eircom to do it.

But if the prices stay the same I would opt for it as well 24 hours access and I would Never reach 4gb per month and a major majority wont either (quote from another thread)(and if you do after the first month the novelty will have worn off) also from above you will have to pay you pstn line rental €16.20 + vat on top of your dsl rental

Gremlin · 24-01-2003 2:55pm

Originally posted by milltown
Define illegal for me D. Are we talking d/ling music or movies or both?
If so I can't imagine too many people wanting it for much else!

Theres a lot more to the net than music and video. Personally I look forward to d/l software/patchs/and playing games at a decent speed, instead of holding up the phone all night while i wait for the latest updates to trickle down a 56k modem.

douglasman · 24-01-2003 3:03pm

Does anyone know if it is possible to get Eircom ADSL and *not* take up the voice option, i.e. so you only pay the DSL rental and no pstn phone rental ?

the Guru · 24-01-2003 3:23pm

Originally posted by douglasman
Does anyone know if it is possible to get Eircom ADSL and *not* take up the voice option, i.e. so you only pay the DSL rental and no pstn phone rental ?

The answer is Simply No

Calibos · 24-01-2003 3:31pm

Originally posted by douglasman
Does anyone know if it is possible to get Eircom ADSL and *not* take up the voice option, i.e. so you only pay the DSL rental and no pstn phone rental ?

There is no DSL rental. You don't have an extra line put in like you would with isdn. DSL is a service on your existing phoneline for which you are paying line rental anyway. There is no new line rental charge, just the €55 flat fee service charge for the DSL.

ie. you have to have a phoneline anyway to avail of DSL. Therefor you are already paying line rental on that line plus any call charges. You pay line rental on that line even if you never made any calls. So atm on your phone at home you are paying Line rental+call charges. With DSL you pay line rental+call charges(voice calls)+ DSL flatrate fee of €55.

the Guru · 24-01-2003 3:37pm

DSL works at a very high frequency on the the existing PSTN line

douglasman · 24-01-2003 3:37pm

I'm approaching the thing from a business point of view. Most businesses would have BRA, FRA or PRA ISDN lines for voice communications and would have no interest in paying line rental for a pstn line, that in all likelihood would never end up having a phone connected to it, therefore would only be interested in the DSL part of it. In these economic times, and with the outrageous DSL prices, there *should* be an option to not have voice, technically there's no need for it to be there as it's on much lower frequencies than DSL, so DSL doesn't really care whether there's voice on the line or not.

Calibos · 24-01-2003 3:53pm

Originally posted by douglasman
I'm approaching the thing from a business point of view. Most businesses would have BRA, FRA or PRA ISDN lines for voice communications and would have no interest in paying line rental for a pstn line, that in all likelihood would never end up having a phone connected to it, therefore would only be interested in the DSL part of it. In these economic times, and with the outrageous DSL prices, there *should* be an option to not have voice, technically there's no need for it to be there as it's on much lower frequencies than DSL, so DSL doesn't really care whether there's voice on the line or not.

Well if Ireland were like most other countries like Germany you could run DSL over one of your existing isdn lines but as Eircom seem to have deamed that 'technically impossible' you just have to accept that you will have to have a pstn line installed for the purpose for which you have to pay lnie rental on.

highlight · 24-01-2003 5:03pm

You can get DSL over ISDN, if the loop is unbundled

the Guru · 24-01-2003 5:06pm

Originally posted by highlight
You can get DSL over ISDN, if the loop is unbundled

No it makes no difference Eircom and as far as I know Esat can either.

Revoque · 24-01-2003 5:12pm

Sounds like a money spinner to me.

Speaking as a home/small business user why not give up one of the isdn lines and have it as a DSL line and keep the other 64k isdn line as a voice only line.

It's the same copper in both as well as the same copper with analog 56k lines,at least the ones installed with the last 5-6 years

All they have to do is change a box at either end.

Maby I'm wrong but that is what the Eircom guy told me when he installed isdn. The only problems he said would be distance from the exchange.

highlight · 24-01-2003 5:39pm

A large number of the loops unbundled are over ISDN. eircom can give you istream on a ISDN line, but the issue is the NTU at the customer end

the Guru · 24-01-2003 6:04pm

Sounds like a money spinner to me.

How a pstn line is €16.20 and a ISDN line is €30.99

Revoque · 24-01-2003 6:09pm

I suppose it's because there is a current going through it or maby because Eircom like to charge big for something different lol ??:rolleyes:

Revoque · 24-01-2003 6:14pm

They say you will have to get a new line again for DSL or pay a fee to get your existing line reverted. :mad:

David C · 24-01-2003 8:34pm

Just been on the phone to a very friendly lady in Eircom (1800 512 128)..
She was talking to me for a good while about upgrading to ADSL from ISDN..

She said that things were changing by the minute in there and that she couldn't promise anything concrete at this moment in time, but that there was a message going around Eircom that in about two weeks, people would be able to change from ISDN -> ADSL without having to pay to downgrade to PSTN first and that tests WOULD be done over ISDN free after this changes.....

Basically, she said that at the moment ISDN could be disabled at the exchange straight away for free. An installer will have to come and fit the splitter anyway for ADSL, so they feel, once ISDN tests can commence (Comreg pending) that there is no problem getting rid of the ISDN box whilst they are at it, at no extra cost.....
So you are left with a PSTN line @ 19.60 + RADSL access @ 54.50

She also said that all of Eircom's DSL products would be changing to RADSL..

First time I've spoken to someone in Eircom who actually knew what they were talking about and sounded interested.

I'm going to wait for UTV to get their hands on the wholesale product and provide a service without that damn cap!

Eircoms dsl questions?

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