Dublin falling behind in race to become one of the world's leading e-cities

molinaalexis

THE IRISH INDEPENDENT

IRELAND and Dublin are falling behind in the race to become an international hub for e-commerce, according to a report by the Dublin Chamber of Commerce.


Dublin now ranks 13th out of 14 international cities which are striving to become the world's leading e-cities, the Chamber's report reveals.


The Chamber said the Government must invest €1bn a year for the next three to five years in public and private partnerships to get Dublin and Ireland back in the race.


The Chamber also said there was an urgent need to put into effect a "visionary" national plan to develop e-commerce and called for the appointment of a chief information officer to oversee government IT functions.


It recommended that this be co-ordinated by the e-Minister and urged regular reporting to the public on the status of government implementation.


Dublin's position slipped in 2002, as it ranked midway among seven countries which were included in the 2001 report. This year, the research has been expanded to include 14 countries and Dublin has come in almost at the bottom.


The top rankings went to Helsinki, Seoul and Singapore, while at the bottom were Dubai, Prague, Dublin and Tel Aviv.


Dr Chris Horn of Iona Technologies said that while the Government had shown good will in its policy, there was not enough real progress.


He called on Minister Mary Hanafin, who is responsible for this area, to take action.


The report suggests a number of ways in which development could be financed.


These include better capital allowances for broadband operators and re-investing some of the VAT from goods and services bought over the internet into e-infrastructure.


Dr Horn said that while there was an economic lull globally, Dublin and Ireland needed to be in a position to attract international investors when the economy recovers.


The Chamber said that the development of its plan could be delivered through a stakeholders' group, along the model of the group operating in the UK.


This should involve government departments and agencies, the telecommunications operators, business organisations including the SME sector the socially disadvantaged and the general public.


"The e-infrastructure plan must be visionary, and demonstrate the social and economic benefits both to business and the broader public," said the Chamber's report.



Samantha McCaughren

dahamsta

...and you have our boss, Tony O'Reilly to thank for that, with his brave takeover bid.

Go on Tony, name another effing building after yourself, you egomaniacal tosser.

adam

124124

Well, I am not surprised.

Does any one know a full list of these cities?

124.

pork99

He called on Minister Mary Hanafin, who is responsible for this area, to take action.

In that case may Christ have mercy on us, we are well and truly boned.

Canadian

Dublin falling behind in race to become one of the world's leading e-cities

I don't think I've heard a bigger understatement ever anywhere. Dublin is in the e-3rd World. Its like saying that the Ivory Coast is falling behind in healthcare or that Angola is falling behind in human rights.

Estonia has better infrastructure. ADSL is commonly available in Sri Lanka. The repressed Chinese have easier net access.

How can this country talk like its still in the game?

=======================
35 days and counting...

spongebob

Originally posted by 124124
Well, I am not surprised.

Does any one know a full list of these cities?

124.

the report is (finally) available from the authors Here

Hannibal_12

Theres something wrong here. To imply we are falling behind we must firstly have been, at some stage, ahead. Maybe I was asleep?

spongebob

Originally posted by Hannibal_12
Theres something wrong here. To imply we are falling behind we must firstly have been, at some stage, ahead. Maybe I was asleep?

Prague has almost caught up with Dublin.

Ratings

Prague 15
Dublin 17
Helsinki 30
Singapore 30

kamobe

To imply we are falling behind we must firstly have been, at some stage, ahead. Maybe I was asleep?

And there off!! Washington and Helsinki take an early lead, this will be close alright. Plenty of big runners in there....
Oh look at that, T O'Reilly has tied Dublin's shoe laces together - good one Tony! Looks like old T has a few bob invested in this one...

124124

IMO, the entire e-thing is shifting away from Europe. From the table, 4 Asian cities (Singapore, Seoul, Tokyo and Sydney) are leading the trend, and closely followed by Americans (Washington and San Jose).

Europe is still playing the catch up game!!

dahamsta

He called on Minister Mary Hanafin, who is responsible for this area, to take action.

I'm sure I mentioned this again recently: Has Mary Hanafin done anything since she was made "eMinister"? Jesus, the original British eMinister used to get a slagging because all they ever did was give speeches, but we don't even hear that much about Hanafin. And where is the media in this? Why isn't ENN - supposedly our defacto technology news source - highlighting this?

adam

naitkris

can Dublin even be considered an "e-city" at all if you compare it with other "e-cities" in developed nations? as Canadian pointed out, Dublin is more like in the 3rd world of "e-cities", comparing it with "e-cities" in other developed countries.

the thread topic, should be "how to get Dublin out of it's 3rd world e-city status and up to a respectable standard" and definitely not something about "Dublin falling behind", as to be honest, I don't remember Dublin ever being in front - correct me if I am wrong here.

spongebob

Originally posted by dahamsta
Why isn't ENN - supposedly our defacto technology news source - highlighting this?

<sniff>

Really Adam, de facto !

</sniff>

cherrio

Dublin (and Ireland) lost the race along time ago. 3 years to get back in, ya right, more like 15 - 20

dahamsta

Really Adam, de facto !

"...supposedly..."

Typedef

Funnily enough, I was under the impression Hannafin was a token female doing a token teflon job for the Teflon Taoiseach.

The government in the same wizned administrative style that brought you twice as much money spent on the unbuilt Bertiebowl, then it took Wales to build one full sized stadium, will I'm quite sure, waffle on about any topic and throw vast amounts of public money at the topic with exactly squat to show for it.

If Ireland wants to get ahead in the game, the government are the last people to look to, to do it.

I herby elect a civil servant in department (x) to acutally develop and implement in a bi-partisan way 'e-commerce'* technologies in Ireland, in much the same way as the civil service has fixed the econom. The politicians can only be trusted to waste money at any given opportunity!

*yes that word makes me feel dirty too.

Hannibal_12

Originally posted by Canadian
I don't think I've heard a bigger understatement ever anywhere. Dublin is in the e-3rd World. Its like saying that the Ivory Coast is falling behind in healthcare or that Angola is falling behind in human rights.

Estonia has better infrastructure. ADSL is commonly available in Sri Lanka. The repressed Chinese have easier net access.

How can this country talk like its still in the game?

=======================
35 days and counting...

Only 35 days left canadian, I'm sure you'll be sorry, was having a look at some DSL offerings in Canada and to say they make this place look stone age is tantamount to saying Alfie Kane got just a generous retirement package.
Apparently they now have "turbo" DSL - "So fast it should be illegal"
http://www.radiant.net/turbodsl.cfm
What classification of DSL do we have?
Vapour DSL from €ircom so fast you cant even see it.
"So expensive it should be illegal"

Edit: just got this off their site for small business,

1.5M ADSL Solutions Package $119.00 $199.00
2.5M ADSL Solutions Package $139.00 $199.00
4.0M ADSL Solutions Package $249.00 $199.00

First price is monthly fee second is activation.
20+ GB traffic allowed.

Full list here:
http://www.radiant.net/sbs_prices.cfm

NB: 119.00 Canada Dollars = 73.2659 Euro

Candian dollars are worth alot less than American, take that into account when looking at prices.
Its shameful in comparison to here.

Canadian

Its actually funny you speak of Canada like it has something special.... I was in Vancouver over Christmas and there were a few news stories over the poor state of broadband in our sick country.

The big complaint was that only about 30% of people have broadband, and that at 3 MB/second, its hardly very useful. 'Only about 40% of Canadians file their taxes electonically' was the sorry statistic. (in my family, 100% of us do, even my 74 year old mother....)

The guy on TV was spewing about how much the Americans and Japanese are ahead of the game, and that if Canada doesn't pull up its socks, we would be left in the second world. Lots of talk about about content on demand such as TV shows and Movies.

Also, the prices you quote sound like expensive businesses packages. 3 MB/sec residential is about 25 EUR uncapped. My mom has what they call 'handicapped' 512 kb/s for about 15 EUR per month.

Everyone here seems to be only frustrated over the Irish situation - the sad truth is that you should be furious and humiliated. Sorry state when Estonia can make fun of you.

I'm very sorry to sound so negative about this modern irish famine.

=========================================
Why do Irish 12 year olds Joyride?
Because they can't play Quake III Online like normal kids.

spongebob

Originally posted by Canadian
Why do Irish 12 year olds Joyride?
Because they can't play Quake III Online like normal kids.

It would actually cost a lot less to give the skangers a computer and a DSL line (even at €ircon rates that would be €3000 in the first year...bulk buying economics if ya like), per skanger. Give em a LAN if theres more than one in the house.

think of the savings on all our insurance bills

Mary Hanafin has some skangers down her way , I wonder if she would like to run a 'trial' project what will all the beemers and mercs in her constituency.

M

Wook

Those IrelandOffline posts really make me feel depressed...

pork99

Originally posted by Wook
Those IrelandOffline posts really make me feel depressed...

dont get depressed - get very very very p1ssed off

Canadian

dont get depressed - get very very very p1ssed off

After living here for two years, one of the most common Irish traits I've noticed is the ability to put up with Crap.

Crap customer service (if they don't know they lie)
Crap communications (eircom and mobile phone prices)
Crap Pharmacy prices.
Crap roads.
Crap weather. (not entirely your fault).

Not being a native, I used to get furious with salespeople (either on the phone or in stores). They just looked at me like I was crazy...

Took about a year until I got used to it.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Canadian
After living here for two years, one of the most common Irish traits I've noticed is the ability to put up with Crap.

Crap customer service (if they don't know they lie)
Crap communications (eircom and mobile phone prices)
Crap Pharmacy prices.
Crap roads.
Crap weather. (not entirely your fault).

Not being a native, I used to get furious with salespeople (either on the phone or in stores). They just looked at me like I was crazy...

Took about a year until I got used to it.

Well, you'll be off to Japan soon.

Hannibal_12

Originally posted by Canadian
After living here for two years, one of the most common Irish traits I've noticed is the ability to put up with Crap.

Crap customer service (if they don't know they lie)
Crap communications (eircom and mobile phone prices)
Crap Pharmacy prices.
Crap roads.
Crap weather. (not entirely your fault).

Not being a native, I used to get furious with salespeople (either on the phone or in stores). They just looked at me like I was crazy...

Took about a year until I got used to it.

At least we have good umm, ehhhh, never mind.

sceptre

Canadian - you're right. Oh, it's not as if Irish people don't complain - it's just that generally they complain loudly after the fact to their friends. Most Irish people in a restaurant will do one of three things if they have a problem with the food:
a)Get enraged and complain loudly
b)Make a relatively quiet complaint and be happy as long as its sorted out
c)Say nothing while they're there but get a great deal out of enjoyment about bitching for months about it

Guess which option most Irish people take. Perhaps many irish people feel the need to be comforted by the idea that they're being persecuted, I don't know. What I do know is that very few people are prepared to do anything about it.

It's for this reason I've so much time for protest groups, whether I agree with their aims or not. They're bucking the trend, they've an opinion and they're prepared to do something about it. Not like the idiots who don't give a damn if the country goes down the toilet or if people die in streets or hospitals as long as the price of the pint stays steady (not that that's unimportant:D but I doubt most people with any cop-on would put it at the top of the social and economic development list).

btw I complain too when service is especially bad (and I get the same reaction as you do).

If I'm generalising, feel free to abuse me by PM but you know I'm only generalising because its true.

SkepticOne

There appears to be people here claiming that Ireland is in some way behind other countries in terms of broadband. Not everyone thinks so:

It is crucially important that broadband is made available throughout the country. However, it is not true to say that Ireland lags behind other countries. Reports have shown how far ahead Ireland is. A report being published tomorrow will equally show our success to date in this area. However, to ensure that we remain one of the most globalised countries and remain competitive and, more particularly, to ensure that ordinary people can have access to services in the easiest and cheapest way possible around the clock, we must move forward with this policy.

This is from Minister of State, Mary Hanafin during a Dáil Debate on 19 June 2002. I think I know who to believe.

dahamsta

Liar Found In Dáil Shock!

pork99

Originally posted by SkepticOne
during a Dáil Debate on 19 June 2003.

Has she discovered time travel? I think we should be told

Dustaz

lol adam:)

And also in Time Travel Shocker ......

SkepticOne

ffs. I've edited it back to 2002.

pork99

But what disturbs me apart from her ability to bend the laws of time and space is that she probably isn't telling lies its more likely does not know what the f*** she is talking about

dahamsta

But what disturbs me apart from her ability to bend the laws of time and space is that she probably isn't telling lies its more likely does not know what the f*** she is talking about

Absolutely. She has an extraordinary ability to keep her head down too, although a lot of that could be attributed to the incompetence of the press. The press is always looking for something to have a go off the government with yet they can't see this right in front of their noses. This is a genuine problem they could hammer them with day after day after day, and ultimately the only way the Government can get out of it is with /real/ solutions -- because there's people like us out there ready to brand them as out-and-out liars if they come up with a kludge, with no risk of litigation (because we'd be right).

The old excuse of "the public doesn't understand it" is rubbish: you only have to explain it once. If they were honest with themselves, they'd own up an admit that it's they don't understand it, and they're afraid to ask someone who does. It's an absolute shame that an utter shambles like this is relegated to technology journalists. Investigative journalists could have a field day with it if they pulled their head out of their asses.)

adam

Xian

Originally posted by pork99
its more likely does not know what the f*** she is talking about

Easily demonstrated:

A report being published tomorrow will equally show our success to date in this area.

The report in question being:

Ireland tops EU e-government rankings
"It is yet another testament to our progress in delivering on-line public services to citizens and businesses, and the results are an independent endorsement of Ireland's progress towards our objective of becoming a world leader in e-government and e-commerce," said Minister Hanafin in a statement.

SkepticOne

This illustrates a common confusion: Internet Access vs. Internet Applications (e-government, e-commerce etc.). Often they are combined in some sort of ranking with points allocated to each and then simply added up.

pork99

Originally posted by Xian
[B
Easily demonstrated:

A report being published tomorrow will equally show our success to date in this area.

The report in question being:

Ireland tops EU e-government rankings
"It is yet another testament to our progress in delivering on-line public services to citizens and businesses, and the results are an independent endorsement of Ireland's progress towards our objective of becoming a world leader in e-government and e-commerce," said Minister Hanafin in a statement. [/B]

Just another example among many of the wrong person being in a key job in this country

If I showed such a lack of grasp of the basic facts in my job I would be out on my ear within a week

spongebob

The Government is tops for sticking web front ends onto databases....that is what the survey sez and I believe it.

The idea that these services are usable in peripheral regions of Ireland...where the standard telephone service gives ya analogue lines running at 20Kb per second.....is risible.

The fact that these e-government services will be delivered through transparent web caches with no legal provisioning for expiry is risible. The addition of ISP escrowed mandatory logging is but a detail.

The fact that the government intends to provide much of this sevice in rural areas through VSAT services with no Irish uplink but rather a German or British uplink with rampant fetch caching and no port 443 capability owing to lags ........ is a cause of great mirth to me.......

Cap Gemini no doubt carried out the survey using high speed dedicated leased lines, we wont be so lucky in real life.'

God bless the E-Tub and all who sail in her

M

K!LL!@N

Mary's great.
She sent me a lovely card in the post at christmas.
I'd have much preferred an nice e-card though, viewed over a reasonably priced broadband connection.
I should have never bothered opening the door to her when she was canvassing.
What i said went in one ear and out the other obviously.
She even acted all interested, marked my name down on her little sheet. Said she'd send me some literature. What she sent was a load of crap.


Killian

vinnyfitz

Effectively she was ambushed in the Dail
At the same time she admitted she new very little about her new portfolio.
Now, if she is still coming out with such nonsense that would be/is worthy of comment.

pork99

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
Now, if she is still coming out with such nonsense that would be/is worthy of comment.

So instead she keeps her mouth shut and does nothing. A bit better but still fecking useless.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
Effectively she was ambushed in the Dail
At the same time she admitted she new very little about her new portfolio.
Now, if she is still coming out with such nonsense that would be/is worthy of comment.

Well, I was searching for dail debates on the subject and this came up and I got wound up by it. Maybe her views have changed now, but it seemed to me odd that that she would jump to a vigourous defence of the situation based on zero knowledge. I would have thought that she would have had at least 10 minutes briefing on the situation. Someone should have told her that broadband is rubbish in Ireland and does not compare well with the vast majority of industrial nations. She must have know about the OECD report, for example.

zynaps

Reports have shown how far ahead Ireland is.

Exactly! In the same sense that Ethiopia is far ahead in the crop growing and irrigation sectors, and also in its hygenic and easily available drinking water!

zynaps

sceptre

Originally posted by zynaps
Exactly! In the same sense that Ethiopia is far ahead in the crop growing and irrigation sectors, and also in its hygenic and easily available drinking water!

Ah, now that's an unfair comparison. Part of the ongoing problem with Ethiopia is that the government are ineffective and aren't that concerned about their own citizens, happy to let the local controllers and robber barons control access to the food and clean drinking water they do have which they distribute to small numbers of people at massively inflated prices (which many people can't afford) and thereby reap massive profits by lecherous means. Meanwhile most of the Ethiopian media is also controlled by these people, meaning that there's very little possibility of Ethiopians organising to change the status quo (or even recognising the real cause for the /ongoing/ problem) and throw out these thieves who are costing them so much (OK it's a matter of life and death in Ethiopia but you can still see what I'm on about).

Hmmm, not a bad analogy at all then - kudos zynaps.



(note: I'm not being facetious by the comments above - I'm well aware that people dying is not something to laugh at (and I'm not laughing) - it's merely an analogy. The discussion on my own belief that there has never in the history of the planet been a major famine in a country with a free press in which many people have died (as opposed to the long list of famines in oligarchies or dictatorships where millions have died) is a matter for another board)

Wook

contact Mary ? Rant, Complain, offer advice ? propose deaL?

Constituency Office:
Department of the Taoiseach, Government Buildings,
Merrion Street, Dublin 2

Phone:
01-619 4350 / 01-619 4496

Fax:
01-676 3533

E-mail:
minister.hanafin@taoiseach.gov.ie

Website:
www.maryhanafin.ie

make her aware of a IrelandOffline pissed off voters base ?

Ardmore

Ireland tops EU e-government rankings
"It is yet another testament to our progress in delivering on-line public services to citizens and businesses, and the results are an independent endorsement of Ireland's progress towards our objective of becoming a world leader in e-government and e-commerce," said Minister Hanafin in a statement. [/B]

Just as a matter of interest, has Ireland Offiline considered making a Freedom Of Information Act request for any logfile analysis of Government web servers, to find out just how much use the "best e-government in Europe" actually gets?

Ardmore

(note: I'm not being facetious by the comments above - I'm well aware that people dying is not something to laugh at (and I'm not laughing) - it's merely an analogy. The discussion on my own belief that there has never in the history of the planet been a major famine in a country with a free press in which many people have died (as opposed to the long list of famines in oligarchies or dictatorships where millions have died) is a matter for another board)

It's off topic for this list, but if you look into it, you'll find that the press in Ireland and Britain in the 1840's clearly fell within any reasonable definition of a "free press".

zynaps

Sceptre

The discussion on my own belief that there has never in the history of the planet been a major famine in a country with a free press in which many people have died (as opposed to the long list of famines in oligarchies or dictatorships where millions have died) is a matter for another board)

Ardmore

It's off topic for this list, but if you look into it, you'll find that the press in Ireland and Britain in the 1840's clearly fell within any reasonable definition of a "free press".

Maybe, but I think we're having some confusion of "press" and "democracy"?
It was apparently more like Animal Farm back in the gorta, but I wouldn't attribute it to information being inhibited, more that people were being somewhat oppressed through Brit landlords coming over and having land and resources given to them, and taken away from the Irish.

Besides, they don't really have free press in China, but they seem to have okay food, eh :P
And most certainly better internet, albeit censored and scrutinised for anti-government ideas, etc....

zynaps