having a child...

BEAT

This subject seems to be coming up a lot with me anyway, since I am a single female and 25 everyone looks at me and says, you dont have any children, wow...
what a bunch of dopes..

Personally I feel I am too young to have children. There are enough people out there having kids that should'nt be...
I feel it is selfish of these little ignorant children to be having children, they are not giving them much of a chance in the world as far as I am concerned.
What do you think?
shouldnt having a child be a decision one makes and not something that just happend?

I dont belive in abortion but i do belive in contraception and raising your child to believe in using all appropiate methods if they do decide to have sex at an age where they are not even responsible for themselves let alone another human being.

I think something should be done, but what can possibly be done?
it seems like generation after generation is getting more ignorant...

I personally wont have a child before the age of 30 or after 35, so I am giving myself 5 yrs to plan ... if the state of the world at that point is hell on earth, war and such, i wont be selfish enough to bring a child into that world.
I am interested to see what others opinions are on this subject...

and before it is said, yes i am sure accidents happens to both teens and adults, I was an accident tbh, but what I am saying is maybe we should be more careful..infact if we do anything in life if should be to be more careful that we dont hurt another human being and this includes creating one that you cant really care for properly etc...
you can take it from there

sunbeam

Just curious: who exactly thinks it is so strange that as a 25 year old female you are 'still' childless-friends? family? I would have thought it not be be such an unusual thing these days! Then again maybe I've just had it easy as most of my family had their kids from age 35+...

naitkris

Originally posted by sunbeam
Just curious: who exactly thinks it is so strange that as a 25 year old female you are 'still' childless-friends? family? I would have thought it not be be such an unusual thing these days! Then again maybe I've just had it easy as most of my family had their kids from age 35+...

i agree with sunbeam, it's not "strange" at all. this is a topic that is more and more relevant nowadays with all the opportunities that have opened up for women (particularly in the last 30 years in Ireland) and the things they can now do instead of being housewives. I come from Sweden btw, where women have had this greater freedom for quite a long time now (so you know my perspective). just so you know, i am 19 and a guy so maybe I am far from the best advice, but then I do get into interesting conversations with my mostly female family (being the only guy in the house). i hope you don't mind me contributing, BEAT as I think it's an interesting topic for anyone to be honest and there is also the little known fact that it takes 2 to have a child.

there are advantages and disadvantages (as with everything) I feel to having a child in your 20s (or earlier) and the same with in your 30s (or later) though it all depends on the maturity and longing for a child on the part of the woman (as we can all agree it is, despite the man's small contribution a woman's decision).

Business women and women with careers I have heard have put having children to the side as something "they will get to later on in life" only to find that when they reach 40 (or later) that they had wished they had a child much earlier. It's a bit of a catch 22 situation for many woman nowadays, have the kids now and juggle a career at the same time or go full speed ahead with the career and then have the kids. My mother for example is in her mid-40s (she's my Irish connection) and had her first child at about 23 (my oldest sister) and me at 25 and now is a very succesful M.D. of her own company - she was married though when she had her first child so she had the support of my dad with rearing the kids while she was studying or working (which is probably not too common in Ireland just yet, where it's usually the woman at home - but it will change eventually).

I think it's very important for there to be father in any child's arrival into the world (and that means he is commited to both his partner and the rearing of the child), so basically as long as their is a partner who is going to be there and not do a runner in any childs birth then this is the first and most important criteria to be met in deciding whether it is a good time to have a child (and that the woman is at least over 18). the rest is up to the 2 involved i guess.

Strangely (and you may not like this) scientific studies show that a woman is most fertile between the ages of 17 and 25, but her fertility declines substantially by age 35. if i was a woman i probably would start to have kids around 30 i guess given the facts etc. but that has also to coincide when "the time is right".

ok, that's my view, in some form, on the matter - probably complete rubbish, but what would i know i'm a guy :-).

BEAT

tbh, every other person I meet makes a comment about it and thriows in that ,
stay just the way you are honey, or the
havnt you met the right man yet hun...
omg, people.
My family wants me to have kids now for other reasons, i am the only grandchild, niiece and daughter from my moms sdie so i i dont have children the line ends with me, I dunno, the idea of being the sole heir is good enough reason not to have kids in itself, lol
back on topic though...answering the questions placed would be a good place to start with this conversation

BEAT

you make some very good points naitkris,
thanks for your input, ofcourse i want to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject
your last paragraph is precisley what my plan is, at 30 i will think about it but for now i want to concentrate on finishing my degree and getting my career in place so that I can raise a family properly.

It is my opinion that everyone should think about these things before planning a family, but maybe I am just seeing the way things are in America, the ignorance level in today's youth is astounding.
If I do have children I would like to raise them in a western-european country for atleast part of thier lives so they can see that not the rest of the world lives the way Americans do.
Perhaps this should have been a Having a child in America thread...
oh well

naitkris

interesting that you are in the U.S.A.

to be honest the U.S.A. is not much different from Ireland in terms of deciding on having a child, it's a democratic country, not too bad woman's rights (compared to other countries etc.), though can always be improved...

it is an interesting topic for everyone and that's the only reason i posted to it, normally i wouldn't go near such discussions. it'd be interesting to hear what others think, though maybe like i did, they can say if they're a man or woman first so we know where they are coming from.

DeVore

I dont want to father kids because I cant commit the time I need to to them.

You think YOU get weird looks, at 33 people have made some pretty funny comments about it.

I feel sad that I wont have a son or daughter sometimes but right now that road isnt for me and I dunno if it ever will be.

Is that selfish? How can you be selfish against a person who doesnt exist!

I guess getting a girlfriend first might also help hahahh....

"Oh dear, I've wasted my life" -Comic Shop Owner.



If you think committing about 20 years and a PILE of cash to something doesnt deserve some planning... WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM!?

DeV.

DapperGent

Originally posted by BEAT
I feel it is selfish of these little ignorant children to be having children, they are not giving them much of a chance in the world as far as I am concerned.
What do you think?

Thats just the problem they are ignorant. AFAIK most teenage/unwanted pregnancies occur amongst people who are poorly educated and in poverty. I think this is because the people involved are too stupid or uneducated (these are two different things) to know how to protect themselves.
Another problem is that in the poorest most deprived areas single parenthood can look quite attractive. If you live in an enviroment of 70% plus unemployment, living on handouts seems natural you get a compartively large amount of money as a single parent and a good chance of getting a place to live. I'm not saying we should take away the benifits but we really need to break up the ghettos of no employment that make this life of misery seem even vaguely attractive.

Originally posted by BEAT
shouldnt having a child be a decision one makes and not something that just happend?

Absolutely but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way, even the pill when properly used isn't 100%. I can't tolerate people getting pregnant because they're stupid but in all fairness our kids need to be told how to **** safely, it's a social problem so we can't rely on parents to do it. Proper, useful (not preachy) education is needed in schools early to hell with the corruption of innocence. A friend of mine works in a STD lab and according to her the amount of 14 year olds turning up with gonnarhea is just stupid.

Originally posted by BEAT
I think something should be done, but what can possibly be done?
it seems like generation after generation is getting more ignorant...

Educate (easy enough) and limit social deprivation (damn hard). It takes years but it really is the only way. Problems like this were limited in the past due to fear of sexual experimentation which suffered huge social stigma. Having people living in fear from their own desire to **** is pisspoor way of limiting unwanted pregnancy. But a sexually liberal society without any upfront confrontation of the social consequenes of sex is terribly irresponsible.

Originally posted by BEAT
I personally wont have a child before the age of 30 or after 35, so I am giving myself 5 yrs to plan ... if the state of the world at that point is hell on earth, war and such, i wont be selfish enough to bring a child into that world.
I am interested to see what others opinions are on this subject...

Personally speaking I think 25 is too young but it does depend on the person. I certainly won't be (deliberately) trying to get someone pregnant until I'm 30, I'm also going to be very finacially stable before I (deliberately) give fatherhood a bash.

Originally posted by BEAT
infact if we do anything in life if should be to be more careful that we dont hurt another human being and this includes creating one that you cant really care for properly

Well said.

BEAT

Devore, my sentiments exactley

Dappergent, wonderfully put

naitkris,
the only thing I will say is your comment here:
to be honest the U.S.A. is not much different from Ireland in terms of deciding on having a child, it's a democratic country:

really has nothing to do with the differences, simply put there are more ignorant girls in the states with no sense of morals and as dappergent put it well, under educated a lot due to the social status that makes them not think before having these kids and then collecting welfare to raise them. Its a sad state and more should be done to prevent these situations from occuring. The women in Ireland have a benefit of still having a family base that teaches morals and religion, as do other west-european countries...this helps, and the education is at a higher level as well. These things have been decreasing in the states a lot longer and so have almost diminshed completely, no pride in themselves or thier way of life...the general attitude of todays youth is they just 'dont care'
sure, all over the world you can find a generation of youthful rebellions , but seeing it where you live and constintly trying to figure out what tomorrow will bring to your front door step sometimes makes you forget that the rest of the world is going through this too...
sorry i am off topic probably but its late and i tend to babble.
I will rehash this tomorrow

Beruthiel

Originally posted by DeVore
You think YOU get weird looks, at 33 people have made some pretty funny comments about it.

now this is something I have never understood!
why is it people automatically think that this is the next step, like you are obliged in some way to make sure the name carries on, that in the end you have no choice but to have a kid? It is a HUGE decision and no matter what you expect it to be, it is always more than you bargained for! If you are any kind of a parent, that child will never be out of your mind for the next 20 years, and for the rest of your life to a smaller degree.
ok, I have a child, I had her when I was 23, which is young, but the big advantage is I am young enough to have a lot in common with her now.
I remember she was a year old and people were asking me if she was going to have a brother/sister soon! can you imagine, it never ends! I decided 5mins after giving birth that I was never doing that again!
as a matter of interest BEAT, do you really want to have a child or is it something you think you should do because it's expected?

Talliesin

why is it people automatically think that this is the next step

It is a common symptom of extreme stupidity to believe that there is some sort of One True Lifestyle™.

One of the most amusing things about the belief in the One True Lifestyle™ is the assumption that the majority of other people also have the One True Lifestyle™ and only a minority of weirdos don't, even though the most cursory glance at the world around us shows that there is no dominant lifestyle.

This is related to the concept of the "silent majority" (it's more a psychological disorder than a concept), where people take too literally the aphorism "most of the people are right most of the time" and combine it with arrogance ("I am right all of the time") and conclude that most people agree with them, but are for some reason silent in their opinions. Hence we get groups calling themselves "the silent majority" even though there aren't very many of them, and they never STFU.

One of the things that keeps the notion of the One True Lifestyle™ alive is the dim realisation that some people may be having a better life (by whatever criteria you choose to measure that) than themselves. The reaction to this is to strengthen one's belief in the One True Lifestyle™, and by extension become more and more convinced that everyone else is a weirdo and less and less tolerant of them.

Sometimes two very different idiots who suffer from a belief in the One True Lifestyle™ come into contact with each other. And people who had children relatively early and people who had them relatively late can be a particularly common case of this. The results of such a collision can be highly amusing, but is more often depressing.

More often such people spend a great deal of their time encouraging the rest of us to have children early/have children late/get a "good" job[1]/move to the city/move to the country/watch more television[2]/drink more alcohol/go tee-total[3]/stop associating with foreigners[4].

Generally people who don't have children at all tend not to suffer from the One True Lifestyle™ unless they live in circumstances that makes contact children relatively rare. Even if they are deeply stupid (a prerequesite for the One True Lifestyle™ syndrome) they will generally realise that procreation does happen.

[1] When programming and other IT professions suddenly stopped being for "weirdo geeks" and started being "a good job". This resulted in an in-flux of One True Lifestyle™ sufferers into an area that had been previously relatively free of them. As a rule they tend to be bad at their jobs.

[2] Television, especially soap operas and the like, deadens the senses and reflects very little diversity. As such it is the drug of choice of those suffering from belief in the One True Lifestyle™.

[3] Interestingly moderate drinking is frowned upon almost universally amongst One True Lifestyle™ believers. The idea that someone might genuinely drink a couple of beers a month has the same effect on such people as a working prototype of a perpetual motion machine would have on a physicist.

[4] People in countries other than the sufferer's home country are more likely to not follow the One True Lifestyle™. This generally results in a mild non-politicised racism.

Nevyn

Well I am 28 with two children, ages 4 1/2 and 2 1/2. Tbh i am glad I had them at this stage of my life. I have the engry and keep up with them. I am luck that i have one of each a boy and a gril and that it my contribution to the next generation over and done with. I still get asked ( not by family) sure the lil one will be 3 and sure then you'll be having anohter.

Unfortunaly until we have a proper detailed education program in schools about sex and sexuality pure ignorance is shaping a lot of peoples lives.

Beat you are being very resposible wiht your life and any life you choose to create.

In other countries ( ie Sweden ) nearly all young people have this type of an outlook. Also it is not acceptible to be pregant at a young age and any young couple ( yes both of them ) that finds themselves in that type of a situation are considered stupid for they know better and have contraception advailible to them.

Also there is the fact that if your having a pregnacny scare there is still STD and HIV to worry about. When i was in college i went through a lot of scares with friends and friends of friends and once they were not pregant they didnt think of the bigger picture.
Being Pregant (in most cases ) will not kill you but HIV can.


ok a world where every child that is concieved is planned and welcomed into the world to a loving stable family (reguardless of how many parents ) is never going to happen. But surely it can be strived for.

Still i am glad i had my kids when I did, for when i went with my first born for his 6 week check up I noticed a Lady in the waiting room, she was well dressed subtle fab clothes and her baby was in an expensive car chair with matching bag . She looked disgusting well saloon hair and manicured nails ( yeah i know but
6 weeks at the Mammy lark I was wasted ) she sat jingling her BMW keys to keep the baby quiet as she talked about her job as a high flying exce. She was in her early 40s and the child was her first . And when i got a look at her son I was very sorry for her and glad I was me; for the child had Downs syndrome. She smiled at me and Told me that I was right to have my children and she loved her son but she was sorry that she had waited so long.

no i'm not putting her or her child down nor tryin to scare anyone
into having children sooner but it is something that really touched me. Children with Downs syndrome are very caring and loving and a joy to thier parents just like any other child but she would always wonder.

Biffa Bacon

BEAT, DeVore, I can't believe people would actually be so ignorant as to say those things to you. You should have told them to mind their own f**ing business. I'd have freaked the lid at them if that was me.

V. good post btw Talliesin.

BEAT

Originally posted by Beruthiel

as a matter of interest BEAT, do you really want to have a child or is it something you think you should do because it's expected?

well Beruthial, since you brought it up...;)
I dont want to have children 'now' or in the next 5 years. I do however, think that between the age of 30 and 35 I would think about having children, but I wont have children after the age of 35. Ofcourse things may change but that is the plan right now anyway.
I used to think I would have about 6 kids, but that was many years ago, you know, before reality hit me
I also used to always say I would adopt kids as well as have my own because there are so many kids out there that need a good home.
Definitley not in my immediate future because I need to get my own life settled and plan for children, it wouldnt be fair to them for me to have them now or before I am ready to give them a stable home and family environment, but thats just me.

oh and , talliesin, very interesting and at times humourous reply, thanks for the time and effort you put into that

amp

Hmmm strictly speaking I should have moved this to Parenting but it's a good thread so I'm going to keep it.

Further threads about reproducing to Parenting though please folks.

DeVore

Biffa, they often mean well but sometimes yeah, I just want to say what Talliesin wrote.... "Your life is NOT THE ONLY WAY TO LIVE!"

The one that kills me is that some times theres an inference that maybe I'm gay (as I dont have a g/f at the moment for similar reasons as to why I dont have kids!).

Anyway, the only people I think about regarding this would be my parents who'd love grandchildren from me but since they just got 3 grandkids in the space of 3 years from my sisters and are now being BOOKED IN ADVANCE to mind them during the weekdays they have strangely come to terms with me not dropping another one on them!


btw, being CrAzY Uncle Tom is kinda cool, I get to have all the fun with them and buy them stuff their parents disapprove of and then hand them back at the end of the day and go home

DeV.

BEAT

Originally posted by DeVore
The one that kills me is that some times theres an inference that maybe I'm gay (as I dont have a g/f at the moment for similar reasons as to why I dont have kids!).

--Do you know that my own mother had the nerve to infer that I may be lesbian because I am single and have been for a long time, she said there must be a reason you turn down the guys that ask you out, I said, ya...because most of them are a waste of my time I have other things I am concentrating on now and getting married and having children just isnt one of them right now. I was really a little insulted when my mom siad she thought I might be gay, I mean come on! --

btw, being CrAzY Uncle Tom is kinda cool, I get to have all the fun with them and buy them stuff their parents disapprove of and then hand them back at the end of the day and go home

--I am an only child but I have 5 best friends who all are married with children and they have thier kids calling me aunti sheila, so thats cool..I know the feeling somewhat
I spoil my godson the most though, he is, as far as I am concerned the most perfect little boy ever and I would love to have one like him one day, so I spoil him and buy him things that his mother, my couisn, doesnt always appreciate, like noise making toys teehee it's fun when you can do this and like you said, hand them back at the end of the day and go home...oh how I love that. we have a lot in common

DeV.

DeVore

Yup, my nephew is the funniest little guy. He's as stubborn as bedamned, utterly mad, obsessed by electronics and scarily clever at times. He's only 19 months too!

I see a lot of me in him especially when he's stubborn or frustrated hahahh.

He shaves my dad with his electric razor and answers the phone, unfortunately he doesnt understand *why* you do either of those things and the results can be hilarious!
(he's the only one who could get away with waking my father up by shaving his forehead).

Kids are great but they take a HUGE amount of time and I enjoy my freedom too much to settle down and commit to one project for that length of time.

Tough luck genes... its the end of the line for you!!

DeV.

stormkeeper

I'm probably a bit young to really be posting here (I'm nearly 20), but I thought I'd add my 2 cents in.

In my opinion this whole "Getting married and having 2.4 children" thing is society pressure... It seems that everyone expects everyone to get married eventually, even if a person choses not to. However, because there's this society pressure that everyone has to be married, and have kids, people find it odd if you're not married by a certain age. Society seems to have a bearing on lots of things it seems, and it also seems that society, as a whole doesn't like change.

On a slight tangent, but still relevent to the topic, I had a general plan that I wasn't going to get married until I was something like 30, so I get a chance to see the world before settling down, but... At the same time, while I'm at work, I actually wonder what it's like to be a father... Of course, I'm sure in society's eyes, neither option would really seem to be normal, but I don't honestly care because I have a plan and I'm willing to stick to it. Granted, I may lower the count by 2 or 3 years, but that's about it. I see no reason why society should pressure people into something they don't want to do just yet.

Basically, no one can, or should be allowed to force you into what you don't want to do at this time... Perhaps getting married and having kids is something that's on the cards for later on, but perhaps you want to do a few more things before settling down?

Don't give into peer pressure from society just because they want you to be something you don't feel ready for... Do it in your own good time

(Is this a bit long? )

pepperkin

Hiya Beat!

I live in the USofA too, and I think I comprehend your point. And, actually, I agree with a lot of what you have to say. The US is a crappy place to raise kids, and while I can think of worse places (definitely) I could hope for better.
On the other hand, I'm not much of one to talk, considering I am 28 and have two kids, ages 9 and 5. Yep, had my daughter at 19, and I don't regret a minute of it. And before you ask, I'm not married, never have been, and I like it that way. I also love beng a mom, and wouldn't trade it for all the freedom/partying/extra time and money in the world.

Okay, there were some hard times. Actually, there were some VERY hard times. Living in a hotel cuz I'd gotten kicked out of my apartment due to the landlord wanting to "renovate" and I wasn't able to find another place to live fast enough. And we're not talking Hotel La Ritz, here, we're talking dead cockroaches in the toilet and a bed I was literally scared to sleep in, and I put my 1 yr old daughter in a playpen and I slept on the chairs...

And it is a pretty screwy, scary, uncertain world (definitely!) and while it sucks that I cannot give them a perfect happy Utopia, I can try to raise them to love LIFE without necessarily loving their OWN life, and to look at a forest, or a bird, or a flower and realize that while many things in life are ugly, just as many things are hearteningly beautiful...they just get overlooked. (yes, I'm pagan.)

I didn't think I could do it, I didn't think I could handle it, I was ready to give her up for adoption (and decided against it at about 6 months.) I was certain I would screw it all up, I wasn't old enough, wasn't mature enough, didn't have enough money...You know what I've learned, tho, since I lay in the maternity ward screaming my head off "I CHANGED MY MIND SEND HER BACK!!! I'M NOT READY!!!" (and the doctor saying, uhh, too late kid...) is that it doesn't matter if I can give my kids Mazeratis or the bus, vacations in Greece or just a quick drive to Virginia to hit Luray Caverns...as long as my kids KNOW they are loved, and they are HAPPY. We do things together, spend time together, instead of me throwing money away on them and then doing my own thing, and I'm young enough to enjoy it as much as they do.

I have the happiest kids I know. They're fantastic. At 18, I *NEVER* wanted kids, for all the reasons cited here and a few more I invented. Never wanted to give up my freedom, didn't want to be responsible for another human being, didn't want to bring a kid into this screwy, fubared world, etc etc...and they're ALL valid reasons. However, when the decision was made for me, I WAS going to have a baby whether I was ready or not, I realized that all I could do was do my best and hope everything worked out. Okay, I didn't figure this one out until the first time I SAW my newborn (literally...) it didn't click in until I was actually holding her, but it clicked. With some people, it doesn't, and some people never mature and grow up. Sometimes, some "parents" never truly comprehend that it is time to quit being the center of their own universe. And, sometimes you THINK you're ready until you see the baby, and then realize you're not. I guess my point is...you'll never know if you're ready until you have no choice but to BE ready. And don't look down on everyone who had kids too young...sometimes, they grow up and shoulder it. Not to mention, sometimes, it really isn't their fault, 'tho that's rare.

It wasn't exactly the way I planned my life, to have my first child at 19 and my second at 23, but it's worked out so far. Not to mention, when my youngest is out of the house, I'll be in my early 40's and young enough to still have some fun, while not so young I'm dumb and reckless!

That said, I admire your stance on it, and don't let the eejits that want to control your life get you down. If you don't want kids yet, don't have them, and when people ask why or make comments, just tell 'em to piss off. It's your life, and your business. Not to mention your sleepful nights!


Long, rambling post, just tossing in my opinion and thoughts. Haven't had a computer around for 2 months, guess I was overdue to type something, anything!

_________________________________________

Posted by BEAT and DeVore....

"I spoil my godson the most though, he is, as far as I am concerned the most perfect little boy ever and I would love to have one like him one day, so I spoil him and buy him things that his mother, my couisn, doesnt always appreciate, like noise making toys teehee it's fun when you can do this and like you said, hand them back at the end of the day and go home"

"btw, being CrAzY Uncle Tom is kinda cool, I get to have all the fun with them and buy them stuff their parents disapprove of and then hand them back at the end of the day and go home"

*grins* You'd be surprised how many of those toys that make irritated noises or that aren't approved of magically develop laryngitis after a week or two, or mysteriously get lost

My friends have discovered that when they buy something for my kids that annoys the crap out of me or is something I don't approve of, they are wasting their money because I either throw away the batteries or throw away the toy....
The noisemakers is one thing, that's just annoying, but an example of my basic stance... (not accusing anyone of this particular thing but just rambling again!)

I am wholeheartedly against toy guns for kids. (go ahead and disagree, I don't give a d***.) I am adamant about this. So, one of my friends bought my kids this set of very noisy, very realistic looking toy guns and gave them to my kids. (Yes, he knew my feelings about it.) First I had to explain to my kids WHY they couldn't have this gift from their Uncle Ted. Then I had to go to Uncle Ted and inform him that he has absolutely NO right to push how HE thinks kids should be raised ("All kids have toy guns!") on me and to raise HIS kids any way he liked (he had none) but to either respect my rules or else he wouldn't be hanging out with my kids anymore....spoiling my kids is one thing, blatantly going against the way I am raising my kids is entirely another...
The toy guns, which cost him around $35, got tossed in the trash about 2 days after he bought them. Waste of cash, that!

So just keep in mind when you buy stuff for your nieces and nephews whether or not you want the kid to KEEP the toy

Anyway, 'nuff rambling, blessed be and have fun!

pepperkin

Snowball

Originally posted by BEAT
Personally I feel I am too young to have children. There are enough people out there having kids that should'nt be...
I feel it is selfish of these little ignorant children to be having children, they are not giving them much of a chance in the world as far as I am concerned.
What do you think?
shouldnt having a child be a decision one makes and not something that just happend?

It should, I totally agree. My stepsister had a kid. Her and her boyfriend were nowhere ready (she was 19 and he was 18, wtf?). People should really think about it. I am also 25 and I have returned to college, a couple or years ago I had a scare (well a girl I had been with lied to me and said he was pregnant :mad:) and I shat myself, how am I going to raise a child? I was 21 and had what could have been seen as a half decent job but... how can someone who at 25 still feels like he should not be raising a child jet do it a 21?
I am in college, returned this year. I am doing Computer networking. What if I was to have a child now? I would prob have to leave, get a job. I might never work in the kind of job I now expect to get when I finish. Also I would never get to go travelling for the couple of years that I want to and I know that if I had a kid and I later (when he/she was starting to grow up), when all the arguments and all that started, I know I would resent my kid. So many parents do, what would my life be like if that little sh!t was not here? where would I be? What could I have been earning?

Originally posted by BEAT
I don’t belive in abortion but i do belive in contraception and raising your child to believe in using all appropiate methods if they do decide to have sex at an age where they are not even responsible for themselves let alone another human being.

Choice is the best in my opinion. I am still undecided really but still, people should have the choice. But yes people should be responsible.

Originally posted by BEAT
if we do anything in life if should be to be more careful that we dont hurt another human being and this includes creating one that you cant really care for properly etc...

That is a novel idea but most people are too selfish to think like that. All they know is that they want a kid and that they have the right. The combination of right and want does not make it right or intelligent.

DeVore

Pepperkin, I would never buy something that goes against my sisters' wishes (not only is it poor form, but they'd kill me hahah).

I recently bought a squeezey toy that goes Boing! if you press it hard enough... unfortunately my niece is too young and not strong enough to press it but she can whack it off peoples heads to make it go Boing! (including, she discovered... her own!).
This is an unending source of hilarity for her and her parents have to put up with repeated bosh-ings while she squeals with laughter. I laugh my ass off too but only at the sight of my brother in law trying to watch the News while it happens

Giving kids guns is bad imho too and as for holidays, my parents usually brought us on sunny, foreign holidays but once we went to Cobh. Now I had no idea of geography and Cobh seemed like an exotic place to me! I had a crackin' holiday and still remember it even though I think I was about 8... the point is that kids at that age dont care if its an exotic holiday or a trip to Bray...

DeV.

Talliesin

I would never buy something that goes against my sisters' wishes.

People keep buying the girls Barbie stuff. I don't so much object to that on the usual Feminist grounds (although I do have those objections as well), but rather that they seem to be designed to actively stymie imagination. The books are the worse, I never would have believed that a book could be so lacking in anything to make it worth reading.

I suppose children having an imagination is hardly in Mattel's best interests though.

Luckily the girls seem to have the same opinion and they rapidly find their way to the bottom of the toy boxes.

BEAT

Thank you so much for sharing you experience here, I appreciate all of your hard work as a young parent, as I do anyone else who makes an effort to be a good parent . The age doesnt matter if you have the will to make it happen , I know this and I know if I had kids before or now I would have done what ever I had to do to make it work...because it's true what you said, as long as your kids are happy and know they are loved, they dont know what is wrong about the situation
I myself was born of a young teenage mother, I had the help of my entire family...mainly my grandmother. When you are surrounded by people that love you, you learn to love.
About the toys,
I wouldnt ever buy a toy that I knew would be taken away from the child, because I know how that felt...I had an aunt who would buy my noisy fun toys and my mom would always throw them away I still remember that. So while my toys sometimes can be a little annoying, I know its not bad enough to be thrown away. I also believe in educational toys and am also totally against Toys that represent violence. My whole family is against toy guns tbh. I fidn it hard to believe that in todays world they are still making such things. As if they need training to be thugs at 3 yrs old...good grief.
oh well, I am rambling now, but thanks again sister

pepperkin

Posted by Talliesin:
"People keep buying the girls Barbie stuff. I don't so much object to that on the usual Feminist grounds (although I do have those objections as well), but rather that they seem to be designed to actively stymie imagination. The books are the worse, I never would have believed that a book could be so lacking in anything to make it worth reading."

Oh, no doubt! Are those Barbie books ****e, or what? My daughter likes Barbie, and while I rarely buy it (I hated the bloody things when I was a kid, I was a tomboy...my dollhouse was Castle Greyskull and I was MUCH more interested in He-Man....) everyone else buys her Barbies like mad. I don't see the point, either. And those Barbie movies. I don't own any of them, but I've seen them, and they're worse than the books. She loves them. I don't get it. She does do some pretty extensive roleplay with them, tho...who knows?

I am so against toys that take away the kids creativity...toys that do all the talking and playing FOR the kids. I try and buy my kids stuff like Lincoln Logs and baby dolls and castle playsets....the stuff that inspires play instead of doing it all on their own. What's the point of a toy that does the entire playtime in 10 minutes with the push of a button? My kids have wooden train sets, and they play with them ENDLESSLY. I also don't tend to do much gender pushing...if my son asks for a doll or my daughter asks for a truck, I have no issues. As long as they PLAY. Course, I also push my kids outside every free minute and we don't watch TV (I never do, so the kids never do) or sit playing video games all day, so they spend tons of time out playing and running instead of inside vegging in front of a screen. Every now and then they get to watch videos, but it's not a constant thing...

I believe in raising kids to be KIDS, dammit, not mini-couch potatoes!
Anyway, 'nuff from me!

Pepperkin

pepperkin

Posted by BEAT:
"So while my toys sometimes can be a little annoying, I know its not bad enough to be thrown away. I also believe in educational toys and am also totally against Toys that represent violence. My whole family is against toy guns tbh. I fidn it hard to believe that in todays world they are still making such things. As if they need training to be thugs at 3 yrs old...good grief."

Well, yeah, I don't throw away the slightly annoying toys, but after a while, if I can't take it anymore I will take the batteries out! I only pitch the ones that I am completely against, such as guns. Or the bloody Mighty Morphing Power Rangers. Remember when those came out how schoolyard violence erupted with mini-ninja-wanna-bes?
I, too, believe in educational toys. My daughter got a Quantum Pad for her birthday, and as annoying as that thing is, she can play with it anytime. (Tho I DID give her headphones after a while!)
Thugs at 3...no doubt. I've seen enough of it (I live near Washington DC, so I get a birds eye view, ugh) and seen enough of it in schools that I am now homeschooling my kids.
Once my daughter came home from school in second grade and informed me that she had been threatened by this kid in her class, that he was going to kill her, I decided that I had had enough of the public school system. My sister in law worked at that school in Michigan where the 6 yr old boy shot one of his classmates, and I am unrepentantly paranoid!
What is it about a world in which it's okay for kids to learn to kill before they truly learn to love?!?

Anyway....

pepperkin

Snowball

Originally posted by pepperkin
...wouldn't trade it for all the freedom/partying/extra time and money in the world...
...we're talking dead cockroaches in the toilet and a bed I was literally scared to sleep in, and I put my 1 yr old daughter in a playpen and I slept on the chairs...
And it is a pretty screwy, scary, uncertain world (definitely!) and while it sucks that I cannot give them a perfect happy Utopia, I can try to raise them to love LIFE without necessarily loving their OWN life, and to look at a forest, or a bird, or a flower and realize that while many things in life are ugly, just as many things are hearteningly beautiful...they just get overlooked...
...as long as my kids KNOW they are loved, and they are HAPPY. We do things together, spend time together, instead of me throwing money away on them and then doing my own thing...
I have the happiest kids I know. They're fantastic. At 18, I *NEVER* wanted kids, for all the reasons cited here and a few more I invented

Impressed, very impressed. I wish there was more parents like you around the world.

DeVore

Television, the Drug of the nation

One nation
under God
has turned into
one nation under the influence
of one drug

Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V., it
satellite links
our United States of Unconsciousness
Apathetic therapeutic and extremely addictive
The methadone metronome pumping out
150 channels 24 hours a day
you can flip through all of them
and still there's nothing worth watching
T.V. is the reason why less than 10 per cent of our
Nation reads books daily
Why most people think Central Amerika
means Kansas
Socialism means unamerican
and Apartheid is a new headache remedy
absorbed in it's world it's so hard to find us
It shapes our mind the most
maybe the mother of our Nation
should remind us
that we're sitting too close to...


Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V. is
the stomping ground for political candidates
Where bears in the woods
are chased by Grecian Formula'd
bald eagles
T.V. is mechanized politic's
remote control over the masses
co-sponsored by environmentally safe gases
watch for the PBS special
It's the perpetuation of the two party system
where image takes precedence over wisdom
Where sound bite politics are served to
the fastfood culture
Where straight teeth in your mouth
are more important than the words
that come out of it
Race baiting is the way to get selected
Willie Horton or
Will he not get elected on...

Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V., is it the reflector or the director ?
Does it imitate us
or do we imitate it
because a child watches 1500 murders before he's
twelve years old and we wonder why we've created
a Jason generation that learns to laugh
rather than to abhor the horror
T.V. is the place where
armchair generals and quarterbacks can
experience first hand
the excitement of warfare
as the theme song is sung in the background
Sugar sweet sitcoms
that leave us with a bad actor taste while
pop stars metamorphosize into soda pop stars
You saw the video
You heard the soundtrack
Well now go buy the soft drink
Well, the only cola that I support
would be a union C.O.L.A.(Cost Of Living Allowance)
On television

Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

Back again, "New and improved"
We return to our irregularly programmed schedule
hidden cleverly between heavy breasted
beer and car commercials
CNNESPNABCTNT but mostly B.S.
Where oxymoronic language like
"virtually spotless", "fresh frozen"
"light yet filling" and "military intelligence"
have become standard
T.V. is the place where phrases are redefined
like "recession" to "necessary downturn"
"Crude oil" on a beach to "mousse"
"Civilian death" to "collateral damages"
and being killed by your own Army
is now called "friendly fire"
T.V. is the place where the pursuit
of happiness has become the pursuit of
trivia
Where toothpaste and cars have become
sex objects
Where imagination is sucked out of children
by a cathode ray nipple
T.V. is the only wet nurse
that would create a cripple


Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation


-- Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy.



DeV.

pepperkin

DeVore....

Which is why neither I nor my kids watch TV!

BEAT

You are my hero

DapperGent

Originally posted by DeVore
Television, the Drug of the nation

That reminds me of a wonderful Calvin and Hobbes strip.

Calvin and Hobbes are reading a book and Calvin says:

"Religion is the opiate of the masses-what does that mean?"

Next panel is the TV, which says:

"It means Karl Marx hasn't seen anything yet."

I love Bill Watterson.

Talliesin

http://chris.croome.net/rants/tv/

Talliesin

I only pitch the ones that I am completely against, such as guns.

We don't actually get rid of any presents the girls are given (though dolls often come with "baby bottles" which we of course chuck out), but we would get rid of guns though nobody's ever given the girls any.

Yesterday Celine and I were talking and one of us used the word "gun". Sadhbh didn't know what the word meant, and we knew we were getting something right.

pepperkin

"We don't actually get rid of any presents the girls are given (though dolls often come with "baby bottles" which we of course chuck out), but we would get rid of guns though nobody's ever given the girls any."

Tiana (my 9 yr old) has half a dozen toy baby bottles, but she rarely plays with them...half the time I find her feeding her "baby" with a tinkertoy.

"Yesterday Celine and I were talking and one of us used the word "gun". Sadhbh didn't know what the word meant, and we knew we were getting something right. "

AWESOME. There ya go. Good luck with it!

pepper