Buying a Camcorder from the US

rymus

I am considering buying a digital camcorder (this one) from the U.S. and wanted to ask advice from all 'people in the know'. First of all, my only reason for even thinking of buying from america is that I can get this specific camera for about €400 cheaper than if I bought it over here. I'm concered about the whole NTSC & PAL situation although it doesnt seem to be an issue with this digital8 camcorder. Can anyone clear this up for me? I know the charger will have the standard 2 pin american plug on it but I can get a new lead over here or buy an adaptor or something.

I wanted to get this specific one to allow me to edit video's on my laptop (I have a firewire port on the laptop)... I dont see any problems there apart from the seriously crummy software Sony are apparently bundling with the camera. I'd either be putting the stuff back on tape when its edited (for viewing on my PAL TV) or burning it as a VCD or DVD when I eventually get a DVD R drive.

What I'd basically like to know is if I'll have any problems using the camera in ireland if I buy it in america.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Lump

AFAIK, the power issue isn't a problem. you can buy an adaptor, that'll convert everything as you need it. If you are going firwire on to computer and then onto a pal tape then you may find problems. American Standardis NTSC, National Telveision System Committee. The frequency of the signal is 60Hz and it comprises of 525 Lines. Where as pal, Phase Alternating Line runs at a frequency of 50 Hz with 625 lines. However I know that if you buy an NTSC tape wont play on a PAL player. However I dont know if the same follows through for digital transfer i.e. recorder to computer. It may be the case that the software will copy the lines to make up the line difference.

I know that sounds like no help at all, but I think you'll find that you can purchase a NTSC camera in america. or at least find out from somewhere (interweb, the shop you're buying it from) if they will work.

Are you goign to buy it in america yourself or are you having it shipped over? If you have it shipped from the company, you will be charge vat on the camera, so dont forget this.



John

rymus

thanks for the reply lump, you're the start of my 'second opinion'...

I reckon I'll be able to pull some info out of the folks in the sony centre tomorrow regarding the NTSC/PAL situation... hopefully anyway. I know my vcr will play ntsc tapes, but thats not really much good to anyone else. I've seen analog camcorders that has "records in NTSC" listed in the specs, however this doesnt seem to be listed on digital camcorders anywhere... which is what started me pondering. Most of them do seem to say "gives up to 500 lines - near DVD quality".

I'm not having it shipped over either, I'm going over there myself in Feb so I'd just have it shipped to a mates house over there and bring it back myself.

Anyway, I'll see if I can pump sony centre for info tomorrow..

hudson806

Rymus, from looking around on the 'net, it appears that Sony's Digital8 cameras are all factory-locked to record at either 25fpsx576 lines or 30fpsx480 lines, so although they are digital standards and hence independent of the PAL vs. NTSC issue, it remains impossible to get a PAL image out of a US model camera and vice-versa.

Some of Sony's European digital8 cameras have been hacked in the past to record either standard - The Video Domain gives some codes for one camera (not a 340), and will give you an idea of how difficult it is to switch them, even if it is possible for the model you're looking at.

You may be able to find some video editing software that would convert 25fpsx576 to 30fpsx480, thus allowing you to output PAL, but it really seems like an awful lot of hassle, and the quality would probably be appalling

rymus

now that it seems like I'm pissing in the wind I'll make one desperate stab and say... is it the same story with Mini DV?

hudson806

Originally posted by rymus
is it the same story with Mini DV?

Unfortunately, yes. You will need to find a MiniDV camcorder that can do 25fpsx576. Europe/Australia are probably about the only places you'll get them though

rymus

I pumped some info from a rather nice chap in soundstore and he reckons I should have no problems. Apparently (and I stress apparently) there is an option to output in NTSC or PAL as regards transferring to video tape. Editing on PC & writing to DVD or CD is apprently no problem.

Got more or less the same opinion from a rather indifferent salesman in the sony centre "yeah it should work" or something along those lines.

I am referring to Mini DV by the way.. I didnt enquire about Digital8

Lump

576 Lines?? That isnt even a standard?? What are you going on about......

BTW, what is the model you are getting...... /me goes for google.


John

rymus

Lump, the Mini DV model I'm looking at is the Sony DCRPC101. After extensive searching I cant find any evidence to suggest that it wouldnt work in Europe. I appreciate you having a look though

hudson806

I am referring to Mini DV by the way.. I didnt enquire about Digital8

Ooops. Actually, I'm confused now. The link you provided in your first post was to a digital8 camera on Amazon.com ??!?

Originally posted by Lump
576 Lines?? That isnt even a standard?? What are you going on about......

DV camcorders don't record in PAL or NTSC - they're analogue standards. Instead they record in DV resolutions and frame rates (remember these are progressive scan devices). There are two particular combinations which are typically used if you want to (eventually) output to PAL or NTSC, and they are:

• 576 lines at 25fps, which can easily be converted to PAL when output, as they are very similar.
• 480 lines at 30fps, which is very similar to NTSC and hence can easily be output as NTSC.

This means that, if you want to record stuff that will eventually be output via an analogue standard, you have to have the capability to record in the corresponding digital standard (i.e. whichever of the two above suits your needs)

The problem is that, while DV cameras are usually 'standards-agnostic', in that they can technically record and playback basically any DV standard as they use the same chassis worldwide, the software load on the camera is usually region specific. So an EU spec camera will be locked to only record 576x25fps, and a USA spec model will be locked to only record 480x30fps.

If you're in PAL-land, with a USA spec model which can only record 480x30fps, this isn't a problem if you are doing any of the following:

• playing back from DV cam to an NTSC-compatible TV
• recording for the web - the web video will run at 30fps, but nobody will care
• recording directly onto blank DVDs. Any European DVD player can output NTSC, although you will need to check if the user's TV can deal with it.

If you want to get your work onto VHS though, you're basically fvcked though.

On the specific issue of the Mini DV model you're looking at, the following usenet post [google] . In short, its the problem I described above though

Finally, what the guy in soundstore told you is true - to a point. It will do NTSC Playback on a PAL TV. This will be in the so-called PAL60 standard, which is PAL colour signal with NTSC refresh rate. It can't be recorded by a video, and is really only of interest if you have a really ancient TV that can't accept a standard NTSC input

Even more finally , what you are trying to do is definitely not possible using the camera you have posted unless you have a way to hack it and change the software load/mode. Looking around on the 'net, that doesn't appear to be possible though. sorry.

rymus

just a quick update..

after waking up and deciding to search ebay I found several stores in the USA that have PAL models in stock - notably the DCR-PC115 for around €1244. Little more than I had intended on paying I must admit but before I give out about that price I'll have to check how much the same model costs over here. (and it comes with about 200 quids worth of accessories)

Theres also a PAL DCR-TRV740 for around €724 but Im looking more favourably on the PC115 due to its size. If anyone can provide an Irish price for these two models to allow me to form a comparison I'd appreciate it.

I think (or at least I hope) that the Irish price of the PC115 was only a couple of hundred short of the 2 grand mark... maybe next time I'll bring a pen with me when I go into the sony centre.

Ooops. Actually, I'm confused now. The link you provided in your first post was to a digital8 camera on Amazon.com ??!?

Yeah sorry about that, I should have made it clearer that I had two models in mind after I made the first post

John mac

I Bought a cannon dv camcorder in the US 2 years ago,and have not had any problems except with transfering onto PAL VHS.
you can get a signal convertor from techtronics that will convert the signal into pal 60 ( I dont know the correct termonoligy). The way to go is copy onto vcd or as you say DVD. You have to ask yourself if you will you be giving copies of everything to other people? The money you save from buying in the US will go a long way to buying the DVD burner!

rymus

after much humming and hawing on the matter.. I've finally decided (more or less) to go with this one;

Sony DCRPC101



Not too bad seeing as Sony Centre are selling them for 2 grand (according to a slightly baffled sounding salesman)

Spotted a nice firewire multi format DVD writer in peats too.. (for when I have the money to buy it that is)...

Thanks for all your help - I'll be sure to list ye in the credits of my first major production