What ever happened to atmospheric games

TheDuke

Hi guys,

I got the new Spearhead CD yesterday and started playing, then I check put UT2003.... and left bored.

I went back to my Deadly Dozen: Pacific Theatre demo which I played a few nights before to give me some satisfaction.

Why is it that these high budget games such as MOHAA lack atmosphere and depth - any time you get stuck in a truck it just drives pre-scripted though the place... and fire. No strategy, no thinking, if it moves.. shoot!!! Don’t get me wrong, I’ve played MOHAA extensively (mainly because there aint much else around). And that MPS40 guys that shoot through their back from 500 meters away and hits. The only connection you have with the bots is the medic… and only cause he’s a medic.

I know that I have harped on about Hidden and Dangerous, and Deadly Dozen is the first (although I’ve only played the demos) that comes close to that tension, that terror when you mist that one rifle shot and they come running towards you… how the machine pistol guys don’t shoot until a few hundred yards away from you. And then one of the guys is taken out and that one and only good sniper you’ve had that could have made thing so much easier ahead is gone. That’s the sort if “involvement” I look for.

Games just lack atmosphere, and it’s not to have the best graphics, but to have superbly balanced sound, an open and fully interactive surrounding. With the huge improvement in processing power there possibilities should be endless and there are a few games out there that prove that.

May be someone will read this and develop that one classic game – where did it all go wrong after Half Life – wasn’t that supposed to set new standards?

Food for thoughts.

The Duke : ))

Mr E

Some atmospheric games that spring to mind are Eternal Darkness (gamecube) and The Thing (PC).

I agree that there isn't enough effort into making playing games immersive (particularly the big releases). I have high hopes for Doom 3, by the way....

Some of MOH is pretty tense, in my opinion (particularly the sniper levels). Funnily enough, they were the most annoying levels in the whole game.....

- Dave.

Shinji

FPS games are mostly stuck in a rut. There's nothing atmospheric about them because they aren't doing anything new.

Two which I can think of that DID do new things recently are Clive Barker's Undying (PC) and Metroid Prime (GC), both of which are very atmospheric games indeed.


If you really want atmosphere and innovation in your games, you probably shouldn't be playing PC games - sorry, but that's simply true. That platform has nothing to compare to the atmosphere in console titles like ICO, Project Zero, Eternal Darkness, Splinter Cell, The Getaway.... Hell, even Halo.

Lex_Diamonds

If you really want atmosphere and innovation in your games, you probably shouldn't be playing PC games - sorry, but that's simply true. That platform has nothing to compare to the atmosphere in console titles like ICO, Project Zero, Eternal Darkness, Splinter Cell, The Getaway.... Hell, even Halo. [/B]

Amen to that brother I was thinkinng back at all my favourite land mark games, and all of them were console, probably due to the fact that they tend to be alot more atmospheric and immersive.

Kevok

IMO, the single most atmospheric game on the PC, has got to be Homeworld. When Kharak burns........ the music is just so powerful, Adagio for strings, why no game ever used it before is beyond me.

And both the AVP games had atmosphere in droves aswell.

But it's true, atmosphere is generally something reserved for consoles. It's easier to get comfy sitting in an armchair with a Wavebird than it is with a mouse and keyboard.

Pugsley

The AvP games wont be beaten for a while as far as atmosphere go, just creeping about as a marine with that motion tracker blipping every so often is enough to make you **** yourself

KdjaCL

Doom 3 demo put the willies up me.
May be hope yet but MOH isnt great for atmosphere and Spearhead is crap.

Tho with ww2 FPS not a lot you can do ppl want action and more action etc:

kdjac

TheDuke

some very interesting replies. I would have stayed away from consoles as they never had the processing power to really get to grips with graphis+sound+ai. And any big titles where usually racers or jump and runs.

So what you guys are saying is that there are more atmospheric games and consoles than on PC . Just from the nature of the technology I find that difficult to follow - but then again I was never a console owner so I really can't say.

None the less, some one really needs to take the HL concept a little further.

My concern about Doom III is that again (as is the current ID trend) is to produce the best "visual" game engines but lose out on game play (allot of follow up games where built on their engine, including MOHAA and I am quite sure HL). When ID started the Quake line, to me that was more about showing off their engine than actual game play (I'll probably cause some strong response having said that...).

The Duke : ))

monument

A game being atmospheric really has noting to do with processing power.

Its the same in general, a game can use processing power to look as pretty as a picture, but the game could turning out to only be average or “up to standard” at best.

meglome

Hidden and Dangerous was a fantastic game (once patched anyway) the atmosphere in the game is second to none. I'm definitely going to try out the next version whenever it's out (or if)

Retr0gamer

I don't know what your talking about Duke but the console games market has always paved the way for the pc games market. The last truely innovative game I've played on the pc was Operation Flashpoint and before that it was Half-Life. I've played more innovative and great games on my gameboy advanced this year than I have ever played on the PC. Just because consoles don't have the raw power of pc's doesn't mean that they have crap unatmospheric games. The fact remains that visually I haven't seen a better looking game on the pc than FFX, MGS2 or Resident Evil remake. I'm talking visually not technically. All have gorgeous vibrant worlds unlike pc games with the same medieval or gothic future themes reused again and again.

The most atmospheric game i've ever played was on the Snes. The sense of being alone and the claustrophobia in Super Metroid has not been beaten. Also Castlevania Symphony of the Night had an awesome soundtrack that gave me the creeps. It's not about power but what you do with the power. Frankly the american tosh that comes out on PCs really just proves my point.

TheDuke

point well made... e.g. Hidden & Dangerous was developed by a Czechoslovakian crowd.

Also, point taken that technology doesn't mean good games - and this has been proven by some real classics from way back. I must go and try out a console then...

Indeed gaming has become my "escape" with TV being dumped to hell with one "Big Bother" and "PopTarts" show after the other. I'd like to think that we gamers are still the intelligent species that need to be continually intellectually challenged ... or maybe were just nerds that don't have friends... I wonder

The Duke : ))

sutty

aye, I have to say AVP rocked me world
although the NS mod for HL has some damn good at providing atmosphere to the online gamer. very dark game, and lots of fun

Thorbar

I thought system shock 1 & 2, thief, (first half of) halflife, Hidden and Dangerous, dues ex and RTCW (at points) were all examples of really atmospheric FPS on the pc.

Lafortezza

Thief 1 and Thief 2 are very atmospheric,they make fantastic use of sound in game, and you have to sneak past guards and you get so into the game its scary...

In Thief 2 there's a few levels featuring undead, and ghosts, and when there's a few of them after you and you can hear their moans and screams and you find a dark corners to hide in and they get nearer and nearer until they're right on top of you, but can't see you,
its a sweet dak let me tell you

both games are probably out on budget at this stage,and Thief 3 is in the pipeline

Swifty

The two silent hills are great for spooky atmosphere.

TheDuke

indeed Thief provided huge tension... I didn't like the zomby bit at all though. Personally I am more for games that go closer to realsim (and that's where Thief gets very close with the hide and seek type approack and the fact one acutally had to think before acting).

System shock I found boring after the first few levels as it took too much running about and looking for stuff and the undead, well ... where always undead. If I kill something I'd really like it to stay down.. well, that's my preference. So, atmosphere, yes... scary, definitely... game play, suffered after a few level.

The Duke : ))

Retr0gamer

The sci-fi medieval themes are used too much on pc. But some companies have used these themes and made great games. Just look at Deus ex, Warcraft 2+3 And starcraft. I just find a lack of imagination in pc games and it seems very commercial now. The games I mentioned were made out of a love for what the developers were making. Look what happened to Bullfrog when they went to EA.

Wickhmar

On atmospheric PC games.

Two (of many) examples people:

Ultima 8 and Bioforge. Both made by Origin before they were assimilated by EA funnily enough.

Damn Capitalism.

Greenbean

The old adventure games had a good atmosphere about them (Indy Jones, Monkey Island, Sam&Max), Xwing had a really good atmopshere. Lots of people swear by Outcast (not jedi-outcast), Dune2 really hit the spot for me; Alone in the dark is famous for it, Dungeon Keeper, Deus Ex were very immersive, Nolf had it too, Mafia tickled some people's interest recently.

Good atmospheric, and ground breaking games do pop up on the pc from time to time, but not as often as they might have in the past. I think the consoles benefit from a standard platform in one sense where games companies have pretty much the same graphics capabilities to work with - to suceed isn't to develop a games engine that takes advantage of the newest technology, like on the pc, but instead to implement cooler and cooler gameplay. Also, there can be no doubt about the japanese influence on consoles, they are not one bit afraid of going for a very lengthy gameplay experience, and have an annoying habit of trying to tug at your heart strings at every bloody opportunity. Occasionally it works, and you can't but help but get more engrossed.

Sand

There are plenty of atmospheric games (least on PC, havent tried consoles since the playstation ) , Thief 2 and Aliens Vs Predator were incredibly atmospheric games - Thief having a great "steam-tech" and if you sat quietly youd hear the clank of gears, hissing of gas lamps and the guards grumbling as they made their rounds. AvP as noted before, was incredibly atmospheric as the marine with the blip of the motion tracker, hum of machinery and the sounds of the aliens as they came at you - it felt like a movie, especially as the marine but also as the predator. Hitman 2 is another atmospheric game, at least on some of the levels like the russian ones.

The Nomad Soul was brilliant as well, it looked and felt as if you were in an alien city. On a different scale the Total War games are also brilliant when you scope in low over your men and hear the slap of leather on steel, the thunder of massed infantry animals taking flight and so on. A new wargame Im loving for its atmosphere is Combat Misson 2 - fighting through ruined cities, holding off hordes of russians in desperate attempts to keep bridgeheads open, the sheer destructiveness of incoming artillery barrages, huge tank battles across the steppes - wonderful stuff.

I know what you mean about Medal of Honour, its AI is a bit too scripted and well, stupid - kills any sense of immersion. I assume its a drawback from its console roots.

BKtje

Most FPS pc games are now made mainly with multiplayer in mind, and in multiplayer you dont need bots.
That's why i think multiplayers hardly ever make good atmospheric games because the developers realise that the bots wont be used once you finish the game and start playing online. They then spend their time tweaking the game itself.

I was delighted when i heard that Unreal2 wouldnt have mulitplayer. They decided to use the extra time to tweak the AI more and make it possible to give more orders. Apparently they give cover fire now if one of their team is down until he is safe. I know its been done before in other games (didnt half life have that?) but its what i think helps make good games great.

That said not all multiplayer games have bad atmospheres but its just a trend ive noticed. Afterall, who wants bots in a game meant for online play.

Chaos-Engine

Yes.
The Xwing Vs Tie Fighter and pre series were excellent. They were an entire universe for me. Everyone i played with on line in those games was RPGing too. The game had the perfect mix of playability, involvment, action and history...

What happened indeed???

TheDuke

Hi guys,

indeed that may have been what as gone wrong with FPS. Quite obviously there was a great urge for on-line gaming and games such as BF1942 make absolutely no secret about that and subsequently lack depth (although fun on-line – but I stress fun and not involving).

Interesting to see that Unreal 2 will have commands. Maybe there is a chance coming.

Also, I am quite chuffed at the amount of replies to the topic.

Here’s my idea as to what makes a FPS (or call the SFPS – i.e. Strategic) a good game:
1. Open mission maps (not linear run) with free movement and free means of solving the issue
2. the ability to select men or units of different strengths and weakness and to equip them accordingly
3. the ability to command the bots/units with some bask commands (e.g. formation, stay, follow, hold fire and fire)
4. sound, sound, sound…. with the changing locations both music and surround sound must hit the mood
5. good reactive AI (i.e. guards sees you, alarms people in vicinity and comes running or is under fire ducks behind crate… yes, every good game must have creates )
6. All of the above should aim for making you think before acting, and then you’re involved….

The above can be applied to H&D, HL and Close Combat. Please feel free to amend. Would be interested how this formula fits into “After Dark” and stuff like.

To SAND: I played to Combat Mission 2 demo and found the turn based approach difficult to get into although I loved the rest of the game – did you have the same experience and does it pass… cause I might get it.

The Duke : ))

TheDuke

Happy Christmas guys... I'm off for two weeks now...

can't be doing this sort of stuff in my time off

The Duke : ))

Thorbar

A pc game which fits what you've just described would be Fallout Tactics except its an isometric(spelling?) game and not a fps.

Sand

To SAND: I played to Combat Mission 2 demo and found the turn based approach difficult to get into although I loved the rest of the game – did you have the same experience and does it pass… cause I might get it.

I dont mind the turnbased approach that much - Battles in Total War can get quite spread out and you can spend a lot of time moving from one front to another, and i pause the game so not to waste a second. The "phased" approach inCombat Misson2 keeps things ...ordered....rather than developing into a mess. Also its fun seeing a well laid plan ( planning phase ) turn into an absolute bloodbath in a few seconds when the ai takes over in the action phase - Ive yet to figure out a way to get into the first line of buildings in the Morning at the Zoo without losing half the assaulting infantry:|

If you really detest turnbased games then CM2 mightnt be for you, but I like it cos it avoids the "you go, I go" turns and it means youre always thinking about the plan rather than panicking and lumping units into a meatgrinder like you can do in real time strategy games.

And i wouldnt judge it on the scenarios with the demos- there are much better scenarios and loads of them in the full game.

SantaHoe

To memory, the most atmospheric game I've played on the pc was RedneckRampage... such attention to detail, great use of sound... t'was almost eerie playing it.
I think that's what's missing a lot of the time... decent use of ambient sound, and spending the development time to allow small pointless interactions with your surroundings... sustaining the illusion that there's a living breathing world around your player.... a sense of something bigger happening.

Typical of the quick cash-in titles (like my recently purchased 'Die Hard: Nakatomi plaza') to put absolutely no effort into creating anything but a linear yawnworthy experience.

As for console games being more atmospheric, I don't know about that... but then maybe I haven't played the same console games as the rest of yee.

BeatTun

half life definitely reeked of quality and atmosphere, a lot of effort was put into the music and the sounds.

also silent hill had me fairly scared too

hamster

Atmosphere? Thief I and Thief II (now on budget) are excellent examples. These FPS draw on your sneaking and stealth abilities. A great twist on the vast majority of shoot 'em ups at the moment.

tman

To memory, the most atmospheric game I've played on the pc was RedneckRampage... such attention to detail, great use of sound... t'was almost eerie playing it.

also silent hill had me fairly scared too

still too scared to turn on my ps...


imho jedi knight 2 is by far the most atmospheric game that i;ve played in a long time