How much are parents responsible for the kids they produce?

Lafortezza

ok to spell it out before people jump down my neck, I am not a parent, I'm a 23 yr old male single and not a kid to call my own,

but I'm wondering how those Boards.ie members who ARE parents feel about the teenage "tearaways" whose family say that its the cause of social/economice/environmental factors that their teenage sons or daughters are criminals, be it joyriders, vandals, junkies, or just rude ignorant kids that insult and harass the ordinary joe soap on the street every day around our country.

Basically, according to the parents on Boards, how much are you responsible for the way your kid turns out at age 14 up to 18 I suppose.

If you adopt the textbook 'recommended' way of bringing up your kid(s), ie teaching right from wrong, good education (as best as u can), etc etc
if your kid turn out to be one of those 'nightmares' that the media love to turn into the next gangland terror,
how much are you responsible as the parent who did their best?

and if it comes to criminal charges against the teenager, should the parent be punished?

Its not something I feel incredibly stongly about, and have no experience in tbh, but how to the real Parents feel?

daveg

There was a very good discussion on the politics board a while back. Can be seen here .

Anyway my own view is that parents are 99.99999% responsible for the way their kids turn out. Okay there are some families who have kids that turn into scumbags no matter what they do but I think the magority or kids who turn to crime are the ones who's parents didn't give a toss.

This is going to be an interesting thread !!

Beruthiel

Basically, according to the parents on Boards, how much are you responsible for the way your kid turns out at age 14 up to 18 I suppose

I would feel 100% responsible for my 14 year old daughter, I have brought her up the best I know how, I have put a lot of time and effort into her and at this stage she has all the morals, respect for others and cop on that she needs so I would be extremely disappointed if she was to do something totally outrageous and out of character - In fact I would be speechless for one of the first times in my life!

how much are you responsible as the parent who did their best?

I am 100% responsible - how can you say that you have done your best if the kid turns out a tearaway? you haven't!

and if it comes to criminal charges against the teenager, should the parent be punished?

I believe so, I see 7-10 year old kids around my neighbourhood behaving in a manner that I never allowed my daughter to behave, I look at them and I am quite sure that when they get to be teenagers they will be impossible to manage - I wonder how their parents can't see that. If you do not teach your child to have manners, respect others and their property, you are heading for trouble down the line, there is no point teaching a child to behave at the age of 14 - you must do it from the start.

Offy

100%, I believe children are a direct reflection of their parents.

MrPudding

My daughter is only 4 but she is pretty well behaved. I think we have done a good job and hope that she will turn into a well behaved, considerate and responsible adult.

I have to agree completely with what Beruthiel says, I would not even let by daughter play with the kids in our street. We got out of the car one rainy day and the street kids all came running over. I reminded Seraphine to wipe her feet on the mat and one of the kids, 10ish year old, said "you don't have to do what he f**king says." To her parents I say Bravo, stirling work. There are 2 & 3 year old kids running out in front of cars in my street unit 2300 some nights.

Parents are responsible. I accept that there are occasional exceptions but these are few and far between. For every well off family who produces a "bad person" there is a poor family who against all odds produce "good people" Enviroment is important and is a factor but parenting is the is the prime behavioural influence. Well that's my opinion anyway.

Hellrazer

Have to agree with the majority here.
Im all for parents being held responsible for their kids actions.If a kid gets caught joyriding etc then if that child is still considered a child under Irish law the parents should be fined or whatever.It might actually put a stop to some of the $hit going on at the minute with Dublin being considered a fairly unsafe place to walk around in..

daveg

If a kid gets caught joyriding etc then if that child is still considered a child under Irish law the parents should be fined or whatever

Totally agree Ritche. The garda's can't do anything cause the kids are under 18... fine - prosecute the parents.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by daveg
There was a very good discussion on the politics board a while back. Can be seen here .

Anyway my own view is that parents are 99.99999% responsible for the way their kids turn out. Okay there are some families who have kids that turn into scumbags no matter what they do but I think the magority or kids who turn to crime are the ones who's parents didn't give a toss.

This is going to be an interesting thread !!

And this is where I would have to disagree with you Dave.

My family foster children and we have had E since she was two days old. She has been raised in the same manner as myself and my sister M were and is treated exactly the same as our other sister S who is close in age to her. E's families background is pretty dreadful but since she has been raised by our family this should not come into consideration according to previous argument.

She exhibits poor manners and often times violent behaviour which going by previous arguments should mean that S should exhibit similar tendencies (since they were brought up the same), which is not the case. I had always been an advocate of the Tabulae Rasa school of thought where a child starts with a clean slate and the person he/she develops into comes from their upbringing, but in E's development there is aspects of her father and mother coming through that have lead me to have second thoughts on this.

I would find it hard to blame my parents for Elizabeths behaviour as I cannot see how they would have let her down, their treatment of each of the girls is pretty much identical, they both have their own rooms, and pretty much get everything that they want yet E antagonizes S, has often hit Mam and S and will fly off into a rage at any perceived slight. She will antagonize S or my Mam until they get upset and then get upset when she is told off.

She is now visiting a counseller who is trying to understand why she acts like this.

Bearing all of this in mind I would have to say that 100% of blame cannot always lie with parents even though most parents feel that they should shoulder 120% of it.

Nevyn

Yes there children out there whose parents did the very best for them and yet they trun out to be terror and in some cases adicits. I good friends of mine has a sister like this. The rest of the family are resposible grown ups but not her.

But a lot of the children out there are proplem children becuase thier parents dont bring them up to respect anyone , not even thier own parents never mind other adults.

My children are only allowed out to play in the back garden with a very very slect group of friends and that does not include my nearest neighbours children.

AGain I also have seen very young children out at all hour and often 10 yr old minding younger siblings or indeed neices or nephews where i live.

There are a lot of parents out there that dont say NO to thier children. Cant stand to hear the children cry and give in to every tantrum. I have seen children given a steady diet of sweets and junk as long as they are quiet.

My lil boy will be 5 soon and we are starting already to get into
" you cant tell me what to do " and " IU wont, I dont ,want to and you cant make me "

For his own sake we wage war agaisnt this with praise, distractions and if needed punsihment ( ie no compuet time)
for if he does not learn how to respect now we will have lost him at age 14.

Bosco

Originally posted by Hellrazer
Im all for parents being held responsible for their kids actions.If a kid gets caught joyriding etc then if that child is still considered a child under Irish law the parents should be fined or whatever.It might actually put a stop to some of the $hit going on at the minute...

A catchy idea, but with all due respect it doesn't work in real life. Firstly, punishing the parent for the crimes of the child only re-enforces the notion in the mind of a 'tearaway' child that they can do whatever they like and get away with it. A fine for Daddy isn't 'real' enough a punishment to act as an effective deterant to a child. Secondly, a bad parent isn't going to develop any new parenting skills by having to pay a fine, and if the parents had any real control over the actions of their children then there would be no young offenders in the first place. Then there is the very real possibility of abusive parents taking out their anger at being fined on their children. Should the consequences of stealing a car include being beaten to death by your drunken father?

daveg

Thanx 4 The Fish as I said I think the 99.999% of "bad" kids are from homes where they were neglected, unloved ect ect. What I would say is that "E" is one of the .0001% of those that turn out this way (and I'm not saying E is a bad kid - you know where I'm coming from) even though they come from a good background.

My philosophy is this... I try to raise my son with respect for himself and others and (very importantly) other peoples belongings. I try to instill a sense of what is good and what is bad. Myself and my girlfriend try to shower him with as much love as possible... but try to be firm when he does something wrong (we fail miserably most of the time on this one ) This I feel is the way a child should be brought up.

However I feel that the 99.999% of kids that are brought up feeling unloved, beaten, have no sence of good and bad (from a young age). Is not shown to respect others and the property of others will turn out to be "bad" kids/adults.

KdjaCL

Parents and enviroment.

A mixture of both whereas parents teach right and wrong from early days.
If the kid is hanging around with other kids who didnt have the same right and wrong upbringing can lead a good kid astray.

Vigilance and knowing exactly where your kids are at any time should help.


So its not the parents 100% but they must shoulder some if not mosty of the responsibility.

btwI have 3 kids.

kdjac

MrPudding

I think most people would agree that there probably a genetic element to behaviour. In saying that I am all for punishing parents for their underage childrens criminal behaviour. I concede that some aspects of a child behaviour may not be the result of how they were raised but I am of the opinion that if there is a risk that you will be held responible, either by imprisonment or fines, for you childs activity you might take a bit more interest in what they get up to. This is not about punishing parents for not giving enough love to their children as they grew up, it is about punishing them for allowing there children to steal cars and stab people for a phone. Parents MUST take responsibility for their childs behaviour. One thing I do have in common with Thaed is that I only allow my daughter to play in our back garden, I actually don't let her play with any of the kids in our street. I don't mean to be a snob but they are ill bred little s***s.

p

Originally posted by MrPudding
Parents are responsible. I accept that there are occasional exceptions but these are few and far between. For every well off family who produces a "bad person" there is a poor family who against all odds produce "good people" Enviroment is important and is a factor but parenting is the is the prime behavioural influence. Well that's my opinion anyway.

Are you saying what I think you're saying!

Please tell me i'm misreading that?

- Kevin

clipper

hmmm the old nature or nurture pickle, eh? well, children live by what they learn, as they say. but, you can't deny that there's a certain amount of genetics in this as well. as a scientist type person, i have to say that all the best-intentioned parenting in the world will have to battle hard against certain traits that may be genetically inherited in part, such as aggression. thanx4thefish made this clear. i'd also have to agree with KdjaC - parents certainly need to take responsibility for their little uns, but you can't always control influences from outside.
everyone is the product of their own unique formula, you can never predict how a kid will turn out. you can only do your best.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

MrPudding

Originally posted by p
Originally posted by MrPudding
Parents are responsible. I accept that there are occasional exceptions but these are few and far between. For every well off family who produces a "bad person" there is a poor family who against all odds produce "good people" Enviroment is important and is a factor but parenting is the is the prime behavioural influence. Well that's my opinion anyway.

Are you saying what I think you're saying!

Please tell me i'm misreading that?

- Kevin

Are you questioning my use of the term "good people" and the implication that poor families mostly produce bad people? On review it could be worded better. So no, I do not mean what I think you think I mean. What I should have said was..."For every well off family who produces a "bad person" there are thousands of poor families who against all odds produce "good people" I put the phrases good person and good person in speech marks because I am refering to what society as a whole sees as good or bad. When I use the term "against all odds" I am being slightly sarcastic, better off people seem to think that it is impossible for someone from a poor background, like myself, to make good. It isn't impossible, it can be difficult, but in the end it comes down to good parenting.

I don't know if I have explained it any better this time round let me know.

Nevyn

I guess it depends on what morals or values you have . Do you have good morals /values?

Do you teach your children to respect thier elders, themselves, other peoples property and feelings ?

Do you teach your children to respect and listen to thier teachers or do you have a go about teachers infront of your children?

Do you teach your children to say Hello to a passing Garda and that Garda are there to help or to call them pigs and not tell them anything?

There are a lot of preconceived ideas about what you are depending on where you live and where you are brought up.
I grew up in Finglas but you would not guess it from the way I talk nor how i dress.

We currently live in Blanchardstown and after sending my eldest to school I find I am having to corret his speach already only after 4 mnths.
Gone is the reply of "yes Mammy" when i call him i now get " Wha "
but we are battling it.

MrPudding

Originally posted by Thaed

We currently live in Blanchardstown and after sending my eldest to school I find I am having to corret his speach already only after 4 mnths.
Gone is the reply of "yes Mammy" when i call him i now get " Wha "
but we are battling it.

We had a similar problem when we sent our daughter to a local creche. Up until that point she never used bad language. Thanfully now she is in a great school and we have no such problems.

Sangre

Originally posted by Thaed
I guess it depends on what morals or values you have . Do you have good morals /values?

Do you teach your children to respect thier elders, themselves, other peoples property and feelings ?

Do you teach your children to respect and listen to thier teachers or do you have a go about teachers infront of your children?

Do you teach your children to say Hello to a passing Garda and that Garda are there to help or to call them pigs and not tell them anything?

There are a lot of preconceived ideas about what you are depending on where you live and where you are brought up.
I grew up in Finglas but you would not guess it from the way I talk nor how i dress.

We currently live in Blanchardstown and after sending my eldest to school I find I am having to corret his speach already only after 4 mnths.
Gone is the reply of "yes Mammy" when i call him i now get " Wha "
but we are battling it.

Im being serious when I say this btw, but you should also watch out for 'knacker' clothes e.g Filas, Bangle earring and such. It is all sign of falling in with a bad crowd.
Oh Btw im not a parent, but a 17 y.o who thinks that youth crime and a 'knacker' culture are causing Dublin to be a very unsafe place.
This may be from the fact I have a scar under my eye where I was punch COMPLETEY unprovoked, he had a soveren(spelling) i.e a big pointy ring
There is places I know that I would never go near alone aand at night, and that is a shame.