Government borrowing only 20% of predicted level

Taken from:
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2002/1130/1865838711HM1BUDGET.html

Today's figures show that the Department is taking a cautious view, predicting a rise of just 3.9 per cent in total taxes in 2003 compared to this year. A rise of just 1.8 per cent in expected income-tax revenues indicates a depressed jobs market. Borrowing for this year is now excpected to be lower than earlier thought, with an exchequer borrowing requirement of €139 million, compared to earlier estimates of €750 million. This is due to a late surge in corporate tax receipts, a lower-than-expected contribution to the EU and lower debt-servicing costs.

So, despite the worst world downturn in decades, we end up with this result?
And considering that government estimates have errored so much on the cautious side in recent years, I am begining to think that all the doom and gloom reported about the dreadfull state of the Governments coffers is mostly spin.
It's a case of as usual, tell the worst possible story and when it turns out better, it will reflect good on our management.

Now if the government and the opposition had the courage of their convictions and went about reforming areas of Wastefull expenditure, and especially went about reforming our health service....
But they won't, Political point scoring seems to take more priority than peoples lives:rolleyes:
mm

Cork

Originally posted by Man
Taken from:
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2002/1130/1865838711HM1BUDGET.html

Now if the government and the opposition had the courage of their convictions and went about reforming areas of Wastefull expenditure, and especially went about reforming our health service....
But they won't, Political point scoring seems to take more priority than peoples lives:rolleyes:
mm

I think waste in public services needs to be elimated.

What state companys are making a profit?

How many of them a providing a half decent service?


I think we should gift CIE to Michael O Leary - and the people of this country might get a half decent public transportation service.

A recent train journey from Cork to Dublin took 6 hours.

Was not not a strong case that the whole board deserved the sack?

It is about time the government took on all state companies.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
A recent train journey from Cork to Dublin took 6 hours.

Was not not a strong case that the whole board deserved the sack?

No, it wasnt.

No matter how efficient a company may or may not be, a single isolated incident indicates nothing more than the ability of a system to fail.

If the Cork/Dublin run regularly took 6 hours, and the board were failing to attempt to address the issue, then there would be grounds for complaint.

I would also point out that while I would agree most semi-state and state bodies are inefficient (I happen to have a relatively high opinion of ESB), the simple fact is that "half-decent service" and "making a profit" are almost the antithesis of one another.

Running a good service in transport, for example, involves supplying regular transport along a complex route system regardless of whether or not there is the volume to make each journey profitable.

People love to pick on CIE as the prime example of failure, and I will be the first to admit there is much which chould be improved, but the simple fact is that they have a choice - the more "complete" a service they run, the more money they will lose. No matter what options they choose, someone will complain. Either they lose too much money, or they dont provide a good enough service. Or - as seems to be the case with Cork - both.

jc

Cork

I agree with Bonkey but why are successive governments afraid of reforming public services?

Money has been poured into the train service - Have things improved?

I think they should be trains running from Cork to Dublin every hour. There should be a lne from Cork to Limerick and a line from Limerick to Sligo.

Why do we accept shoddy public services?


When is enough ......enough?

It is our tax money..........do we not deserve better?

Originally posted by Cork
I agree with Bonkey but why are successive governments afraid of reforming public services?


It is our tax money..........do we not deserve better?

My own opinion on that one is simply this.
Most governments since the state was formed have been Fianna Fáil based.They have appointed thousands of members to hundreds of boards over those years as a sort of political thank you for supporting us.
Fine Gael followed this practice, also whenever they could.

Those Board members in many instances may have extended the patronage( or "jobs for the boys (and girls)" ) into the employment strategy of the institutions run by those Boards.

Now I don't expect existing politicians to reform that kind of system.
Which harks me back to what I've said to you before, Cork, the only instrument of change is a vote for A candidate actually committed to the change you want.
You won't get that by continuing to vote FF.
But as you pointed out in another thread, your constituency doesn't have any candidate like this standing.
But if enough people like you voted for an independent , with even a shred of reformist ideas, obviously the main parties who are to blame here would get the message by losing a seat.
mm

jd

New Lines cost a lot of money. While I'm no fan of Iarnrod Eireanns management, successive governments put no investment into the maintenance of the lines. The Cork fiasco was was exacerbated by the fact that there was only a low powered diesel loco spare to haul the train, when the loco broke. The locos in service are actually used close to capacity limits. I'm surprised taht those 201 loos don't break down more frequently, but thats another story..

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Originally posted by daveirl
Yes, because since all those independents were elected last time on the health service ticket, the main parties have got the message and improved it have they??? :rolleyes:

My message was specefic to Cork , who said in another thread that his cork northwest three seater was either 2ff, 1 fg or the other way-why vote for them...?

Clearly a vote for FF or FG is not a vote for any kind of reform, for the suspected reasons I stated earlier.
Now the independents have formed a technical group in the Dáil, but this is of no use...why?
Because too many voters returned the same old bunch or at least enough of them to form an un reforming government.
If less people endorsed the last government (or more to the point if less people last may were hoodwinked by the Tiger punch) then those independents that were elected in may on a health service ticket would have had a say.

The only problem unfortunately would probably be that they would force the government to keep several small district hospitals open, wasting money on them instead of investing in facilities for the bigger regionals.
But then that speaks of the shortsighted selfishness of local politics.
Perhaps a constitutional ammendment is needed forcing all elected politicians to take decisions that must at all times be in the national interest and ban anything that might look like local vote getting patronage.
mm

Cork

If less people endorsed the last government (or more to the point if less people last may were hoodwinked by the Tiger punch) then those independents that were elected in may on a health service ticket would have had a say.

I am delighted that we have a strong government - a government that if it wishes can take on vested interests.

A governmment made up from independents would send this country down the river. What suggestions has the technical group come up with?

I think voting vor independents is an exercise in self interest above national interest & these independents have no bargaining power in our Dail so influence wise - the benefit is close to ziltch,

Originally posted by Cork
I am delighted that we have a strong government - a government that if it wishes can take on vested interests.

A governmment made up from independents would send this country down the river. What suggestions has the technical group come up with?

I think voting vor independents is an exercise in self interest above national interest & these independents have no bargaining power in our Dail so influence wise - the benefit is close to ziltch,

your key phrase there at the start is if it wishes and it doesn't wish to take on any vested interest at all, as the main vested interest in what I suggested above is the government itself.
Whats the point in having a strong government if it doesn't take advantage of it's position to take decisions on overhauling ineffeciencies.

A governmment made up from independents would send this country down the river. What suggestions has the technical group come up with?

Actually what we need is a group that has as policy to reform.
Fianna Fáil, FG and Labour are as bad in my opinion as any collection of independents as the individual members all fight for their area, regardless of what that does to the public purse or other areas.
You could apply your question to any of the main parties.
Thats whats inherently wrong , I think and is unlikely to ever change
mm

bonkey

Gwtting somewhat back on track, I'd like to address the issue brought up earlier about the amount of money being "pumped into" CIE, and the apparently non-existant return on investment that we get from it.

Again, let me start by saying that I accept that there is much inefficiency in terms of human-resources, and that (while difficult) is a chestnut that someone is going to have to tackle head-on eventually. ESB are a good example of this...despite being in reasonably good shape for a semi-state, they underwent a 33% staff reduction across the board in the early/mid 90s in order to be able to become more competetive when their monopoly was lost.

This shows, more than anything, that lack of competition (or the want to be competetive, even without competition) is a crippling source of inefficiency in many of our monopolistic semi-states.

However, one must also remember that for years...potentially decades...our public transport system was receiving far less cash than required to "hold its position".

Take an analogy. You have a car. One of the wheels makes a squeaking noise when you corner. Take it to a garage, and it may only cost you a small amount to resolve a small problem. Alternately, save those few quid, live with the squeak (or try using some oil) and drive the car until your axle seizes. Now, you're looking at a massive bill to replace a huge amount of damaged material from what was originally a small problem.

The same problem exists within CIE. Whether you choose Dublin Bus, Iarnrod Eireann, or whatever, the simple fact remains that they went without sufficient investment of cash for so long that the huge amount being paid today is maybe just enough to avoid further disaster....and even that will rear its ugly head from time to time.

Money may fix the problem, but it will take far more than we have today, and far more time than people seem willing to understand. Not only that, but you cant make improvements knowing that you havent the money to make them. What should we do? Abandon (say) the Dublin-Galway line so that we can afford to do a proper job on the Dublin-Cork line? Or, carry on providing the best mediocre service that we can?

I find it somewhat amusing that when we had a booming economy, people seemed to be crying out for more to be spent fixing the problems, and couldnt understand how 30+ years of neglect couldnt be remedied by 5 years of good cashflow.

Today, of course, we hear that we spent too much money in those 5 years, were too ambitious, and so on.....yet we still hear that we need to fix this, that and the other....as if it can be done without cash.

Honestly...take the entire salaries in CIE. Add them together, and find out how many miles of track renovation these would pay for. I doubt if youd get from Dublin to Portarlington. And yet somehow, our staff inefficiency is being touted as the root of all evil. It isnt. Its one of a myriad of problems.

Its a problem we can and should solve, but dont ever be under the illusion that solving it will miraculously make everything better in a year or so...

jc