DSL vs IP line

Loomer

I'm admin at an internet cafe in Dublin city centre with 70 PC's and 2 servers. We have had a 512k IP line from Esat for 2 years now. Its about €3000 a month for line and ISP. I can't complain about the connect although have been down from time to time. We heard about DSL from Eircom. I read up on DSL and by all accounts it sounded like a good way to go. Eircom offers the i-stream enhanced at €169 a month for 1MG dl 256 ul.
K now we've spent €6000 on a Cisco 2621 w/1-port ADSL WIC.
Firstly it didn't recognize the ADSL card. Eventually found out we had wrong Cisco IOS. Nextly had to have memory upgrade for about €700 , then upgraded version CIOS €650.
Now that I've gotten the DSL line up with only half the cafe using the new line, web pages can be very slow coming up and sometimes timing out. I did read higher latency on a DSL line, but I wouldn't think that it would be as slow as it is. Games are even worse, can't get better than 80ms ping.
The first router we hit outside the network gets an average ping of 50-60ms.
Anyone else using DSL with roughly the same setup? I'm calling them this afternoon but want to see what other ppl's experiences are.

TIA

steve-hosting36

Leased lines are -always- better than DSL when you want reliability, performance and any kind of sla

MadKevo

Loomer, is the router telling you anything? - have a look at the stats (are there any?) on the ADSL WIC and see if it's telling you about any problems on ADSL, ATM, AAL5 or PPPoE levels - look at the way the error counts over the course of a few hours when trying to use the service to generate as much traffic as possible.
Can you pls dump info here so we can all have a peek?
HTH
/MK.

the Guru

get in touch with jolys internet café www.jolys.net i think they have DSL installed you could ask them if there having any issues

Loomer

Originally posted by MadKevo
Loomer, is the router telling you anything? - have a look at the stats (are there any?) on the ADSL WIC and see if it's telling you about any problems on ADSL, ATM, AAL5 or PPPoE levels - look at the way the error counts over the course of a few hours when trying to use the service to generate as much traffic as possible.
Can you pls dump info here so we can all have a peek?
HTH
/MK.

Here's the stats:

cnb#show int atm 0/0
ATM0/0 is up, line protocol is up
Hardware is DSLSAR (with Alcatel ADSL Module)
MTU 4470 bytes, sub MTU 4470, BW 256 Kbit, DLY 8000 usec,
reliability 255/255, txload 12/255, rxload 64/255
Encapsulation ATM, loopback not set
Encapsulation(s): AAL5 AAL2, PVC mode
23 maximum active VCs, 256 VCs per VP, 1 current VCCs
VC idle disconnect time: 300 seconds
Last input 22:52:56, output 00:00:00, output hang never
Last clearing of "show interface" counters never
Input queue: 0/75/0/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 112
Queueing strategy: fifo
Output queue :0/40 (size/max)
5 minute input rate 65000 bits/sec, 6 packets/sec
5 minute output rate 13000 bits/sec, 6 packets/sec
618622 packets input, 491193633 bytes, 0 no buffer
Received 0 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles
0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored, 0 abort
557814 packets output, 89294123 bytes, 0 underruns
0 output errors, 0 collisions, 2 interface resets
0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out

cnb#show int fastethernet 0/1
FastEthernet0/1 is up, line protocol is up
Hardware is AmdFE, address is 0009.437a.5541 (bia 0009.437a.5541)
Internet address is 192.168.0.2/24
MTU 1500 bytes, BW 100000 Kbit, DLY 100 usec,
reliability 255/255, txload 1/255, rxload 1/255
Encapsulation ARPA, loopback not set
Keepalive set (10 sec)
Full-duplex, 100Mb/s, 100BaseTX/FX
ARP type: ARPA, ARP Timeout 04:00:00
Last input 00:00:00, output 00:00:00, output hang never
Last clearing of "show interface" counters never
Input queue: 0/75/24/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 0
Queueing strategy: fifo
Output queue :0/40 (size/max)
5 minute input rate 32000 bits/sec, 21 packets/sec
5 minute output rate 122000 bits/sec, 22 packets/sec
639089 packets input, 90810452 bytes
Received 71943 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles
0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored
0 watchdog
0 input packets with dribble condition detected
635110 packets output, 473335554 bytes, 0 underruns
0 output errors, 0 collisions, 0 interface resets
0 babbles, 0 late collision, 0 deferred
0 lost carrier, 0 no carrier
0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out

show interface atm 0/0 switching
ATM0/0
Throttle count 0
Drops RP 0 SP 0
SPD Flushes Fast 0 SSE 0
SPD Aggress Fast 0
SPD Priority Inputs 0 Drops 0

Protocol Path Pkts In Chars In Pkts Out Chars Out
Other Process 0 0 2 169
Cache misses 0
Fast 0 0 0 0
Auton/SSE 0 0 0 0
PPPoE Process 647504 512463482 92947 7692304
Cache misses 0
Fast 0 0 488682 86984816
Auton/SSE 0 0 0 0

cnb#show interface fastEthernet 0/1 switching
FastEthernet0/1
Throttle count 0
Drops RP 24 SP 0
SPD Flushes Fast 0 SSE 0
SPD Aggress Fast 0
SPD Priority Inputs 1 Drops 0

Protocol Path Pkts In Chars In Pkts Out Chars Out
Other Process 10011 1868193 8374 502440
Cache misses 0
Fast 0 0 0 0
Auton/SSE 0 0 0 0
IP Process 133490 12693783 648619 490303218
Cache misses 0
Fast 489612 78324119 0 0
Auton/SSE 0 0 0 0
ARP Process 27737 1664220 4150 249000
Cache misses 0
Fast 0 0 0 0
Auton/SSE 0 0 0 0

cnb#show ip traffic
IP statistics:
Rcvd: 1302769 total, 45140 local destination
0 format errors, 0 checksum errors, 143 bad hop count
0 unknown protocol, 72 not a gateway
0 security failures, 0 bad options, 0 with options
Opts: 0 end, 0 nop, 0 basic security, 0 loose source route
0 timestamp, 0 extended security, 0 record route
0 stream ID, 0 strict source route, 0 alert, 0 cipso, 0 ump
0 other
Frags: 2 reassembled, 20 timeouts, 0 couldn't reassemble
6771 fragmented, 300 couldn't fragment
Bcast: 34036 received, 0 sent
Mcast: 0 received, 0 sent
Sent: 6089 generated, 1221457 forwarded
Drop: 215 encapsulation failed, 0 unresolved, 0 no adjacency
1674 no route, 0 unicast RPF, 0 forced drop

ICMP statistics:
Rcvd: 0 format errors, 0 checksum errors, 0 redirects, 20 unreachable
224 echo, 5 echo reply, 0 mask requests, 0 mask replies, 0 quench
0 parameter, 0 timestamp, 0 info request, 0 other
0 irdp solicitations, 0 irdp advertisements
Sent: 0 redirects, 5520 unreachable, 5 echo, 224 echo reply
0 mask requests, 0 mask replies, 0 quench, 0 timestamp
0 info reply, 53 time exceeded, 0 parameter problem
0 irdp solicitations, 0 irdp advertisements

UDP statistics:
Rcvd: 44566 total, 0 checksum errors, 44566 no port
Sent: 0 total, 0 forwarded broadcasts

TCP statistics:
Rcvd: 328 total, 0 checksum errors, 225 no port
Sent: 289 total

OSPF statistics:
Rcvd: 0 total, 0 checksum errors
0 hello, 0 database desc, 0 link state req
0 link state updates, 0 link state acks

Sent: 0 total

IP-IGRP2 statistics:
Rcvd: 0 total
Sent: 0 total

IGRP statistics:
Rcvd: 0 total, 0 checksum errors
Sent: 0 total

PIMv2 statistics: Sent/Received
Total: 0/0, 0 checksum errors, 0 format errors
Registers: 0/0, Register Stops: 0/0, Hellos: 0/0
Join/Prunes: 0/0, Asserts: 0/0, grafts: 0/0
Bootstraps: 0/0, Candidate_RP_Advertisements: 0/0
State-Refresh: 0/0

IGMP statistics: Sent/Received
Total: 0/0, Format errors: 0/0, Checksum errors: 0/0
Host Queries: 0/0, Host Reports: 0/0, Host Leaves: 0/0
DVMRP: 0/0, PIM: 0/0

ARP statistics:
Rcvd: 9266 requests, 31 replies, 0 reverse, 0 other
Sent: 33 requests, 4123 replies (0 proxy), 0 reverse

Heres the running config:

Building configuration...

Current configuration : 1774 bytes
!
version 12.2
no service pad
service timestamps debug uptime
service timestamps log uptime
service password-encryption
!
hostname cnb
!
enable secret 5 $1$n4u4$6a65dMJNFNayGDSJyZj8U0
enable password 7 02040D4F080E
!
username cnb privilege 15 password 7 045F1E0403284216
ip subnet-zero
!
!
ip name-server 159.134.237.6
ip name-server 159.134.237.17
!
vpdn enable
!
vpdn-group 1
request-dialin
protocol pppoe
!
!
!
voice call carrier capacity active
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
mta receive maximum-recipients 0
!
!
!
!
interface ATM0/0
no ip address
no atm ilmi-keepalive
pvc 8/35
encapsulation aal5snap
pppoe-client dial-pool-number 1
!
dsl operating-mode auto
no fair-queue
!
interface FastEthernet0/0
ip address 62.77.170.72 255.255.255.0
duplex auto
speed auto
no cdp enable
!
interface FastEthernet0/1
ip address 192.168.0.2 255.255.255.0
no ip proxy-arp
ip nat inside
no ip route-cache
ip tcp adjust-mss 1452
no ip mroute-cache
duplex auto
speed auto
no cdp enable
!
interface Dialer1
ip address negotiated
ip mtu 1492
ip nat outside
encapsulation ppp
dialer pool 1
dialer remote-name redback
dialer-group 1
ppp authentication pap chap callin
ppp chap hostname cnb
ppp chap password
!
ip nat inside source list 102 interface Dialer1 overload
ip classless
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 Dialer1
no ip http server
ip pim bidir-enable
!
!
access-list 101 deny igrp any host 255.255.255.255
access-list 101 permit ip any any
access-list 101 deny udp any any eq netbios-ns
access-list 101 deny udp any any eq netbios-dgm
access-list 102 permit ip any any
!
no call rsvp-sync
!
!
mgcp profile default
!
dial-peer cor custom
!
!
!
!
line con 0
exec-timeout 0 0
line aux 0
line vty 0 4
password
login
!
!
end

flamegrill

cnb#show int atm 0/0
ATM0/0 is up, line protocol is up
Hardware is DSLSAR (with Alcatel ADSL Module)
MTU 4470 bytes, sub MTU 4470, BW 256 Kbit, DLY 8000 usec,


Me thinks ur not connecting at 1MB, that highlighted bit above says 256Kbit.

So i think thats the problem.

As for a fix. im not 100% ask c0y0te as he has eircoms 1MB adsl in his net cafe in dundrum (no cisco gear there though)

Paul

MadKevo

[!
ip name-server 159.134.237.6
ip name-server 159.134.237.17
!
[/B]

Spotted one problem:
Eircom net's second DNS server is 159.134.248.17, not .237.17

C:\WINDOWS>ping -a 159.134.237.6

Pinging ns1.tinet.ie [159.134.237.6]


C:\WINDOWS>ping -a 159.134.237.17

Pinging www.webireland.com [159.134.237.17]


C:\WINDOWS>ping -a 159.134.248.17

Pinging dns1.te.net [159.134.248.17]

MadKevo

Originally posted by flamegrill
cnb#show int atm 0/0
ATM0/0 is up, line protocol is up
Hardware is DSLSAR (with Alcatel ADSL Module)
MTU 4470 bytes, sub MTU 4470, BW 256 Kbit, DLY 8000 usec,


Me thinks ur not connecting at 1MB, that highlighted bit above says 256Kbit.

Think that this is actually okay - the ATM port really is only concerned with transmit=upstream speed of 256kbps.

/MK

MadKevo

Originally posted by Loomer
I'm admin at an internet cafe in Dublin city centre with 70 PC's and 2 servers.

I think that the problem may be MTU related, although the MTU seems to be addressed in the configuration).

What OS are the PCs running, and what are the servers running?

See this on the Cisco website for how to adjust the MTU value on Windows machines to get around the MTU restrictions of PPPoE.


/MK

MadKevo

Originally posted by Loomer
Here's the stats:

!
interface Dialer1
ip address negotiated
ip mtu 1492

Think this guy should be
ip mtu 1454
as well.
HTH
/MK.

Loomer

Originally posted by MadKevo
I think that the problem may be MTU related, although the MTU seems to be addressed in the configuration).

What OS are the PCs running, and what are the servers running?

See this on the Cisco website for how to adjust the MTU value on Windows machines to get around the MTU restrictions of PPPoE.


/MK

I changed all the machines to MTU 1492 per cisco.com website instruction and it seemed to speed up web page download, although there seems to be a intermitten slowdown throughout the day. I'm thinking that's probably on Eircom's side though.

MadKevo

Originally posted by Loomer
I changed all the machines to MTU 1492 per cisco.com website instruction and it seemed to speed up web page download, although there seems to be a intermitten slowdown throughout the day. I'm thinking that's probably on Eircom's side though.

Good to hear things are improving. Maybe you could also try the following. From your client PCs, ping for example 159.134.248.17 to try and determine the maximum MTU in your case. You may already have done this and determined the 1492 value you're already using - if so, please disregard the following.

PING -f -l 1500 159.134.248.17 and you'll probably get an error something like "Packet needs to be fragmented, but DF set"
Then try reducing the value, trying significant ones like
PING -f -l 1492 159.134.248.17 down to
PING -f -l 1454 159.134.248.17
until the error message doesn't appear anymore.
The highest figure without an error message is the maxMTU value you should set on your clients and your router too.
Thanks to Bob Carrick's PPPoE pages and Annoyances.org which I used here.
/MK