An appeal for Wireless Broadband technical information

pork99

(I know this arguably might belong in the "info about irishbroadband.ie" thread but I want to get more comprehensive information rather than comment on IBB's service)

Last week I had a line of sight test done in order to get their service installed, I live in Stillorgan so I assumed that I was well within the range of their transmitter on 3 Rock Mountain.

However Mike from IBB turned up (LizZard I believe!) after getting down from the roof he told me that I was only marginally above the minimum required reception threshold, that there were some trees in the way and that in summer when the trees are in leaf it could cause the signal to fall below the minimum required. So he could not do an install but he promised to look into it and get back which is fine, at least they are trying.

They rang me the following day and said that they would do another test with a more sensitive arial. I asked if a more sensitive reciever would help but Mike told me that this was not possible because they already operate at the legal limit of their signal

But I have heard that wireless broadband operators in other countries are allowed to use stronger microwave signals in which case a few trees would not matter? I dont know much about the technologies involved and I would like to get more information, so has anyone got any sources on what regulations govern this service in Ireland in terms of spectrum allocated, signal strength etc and how it compares to other countries please? (Cant find much on the ODTR site but I'm used to them being f---ing useless anyway) Something like a table which compares Ireland to other countries in this respect would be ideal.

It seems to me that an opportunity to provide genuine choice and competition is being hamstrung here. If I could get this service the rat would soon be history round my house! I would use IBB for internet and my mobile for phone calls - if only you could get your cable tv by wireless bb then NTL would be goners also. It seems to me that the spectrum allocation here is a bit too favourable to eircon but I would like more information.

morges

Originally posted by pork99
(I know this arguably might belong in the "info about irishbroadband.ie" thread but I want to get more comprehensive information rather than comment on IBB's service)

Last week I had a line of sight test done in order to get their service installed, I live in Stillorgan so I assumed that I was well within the range of their transmitter on 3 Rock Mountain.

I don't know why wireless broadband providers like yours don't use mesh radio. "Mesh" passes the feed from house to house using very low transmitter power allowing the spectrum to reused over and over. It is also more resiliant because if your feed from neighbour A goes down, the system will keep you on the air via neighbour B and C. (Neighbours don't have to be very near). The mesh network grows organically the more subscribers a company has. The technology can use Wi-Fi or much higher frequencies.

Please see:

http://www.wbs.nokia.com/docs/Mesh_Fundamentals_14dec01.pdf

http://www.wbs.nokia.com/docs/ResidentialWhitePaper.pdf

http://www.wbs.nokia.com/docs/WRdatasheetV3.pdf

morges

timod

The EU is limited to 100mw... the USA is limited to 250mw power.

(open to correction here)

spongebob

Timod is right and the ODTR has tentatively reserved bandwith around 5.8Ghz for MESH radio without commenting on its frequency hopping characteritics. 5.8Ghz is not very useful in rural Ireland even if the output limits are more relaxed than 100Mw as has also been indicated.

There is a future directions of wireless paper on the ODTR website which is helpful in tone but thin on specifics given the uncertainty that exists until the FCC says what they propose to do.

The precise frequency hopping methods will become clear when the FCC rules on MESH....shortly I suspect.

Search for Yellum and his posts on the matter (keyword wireless or mesh )in the search window (top right)

M

pork99

Thank you all for your help, I can begin educating myself about this

I'm particularily attracted to IBB's offering because

1) Competitive price

2) No cap

3) 512k upstream and downstream

and last but certainly not least

4) NOT A CENT GOES TO EIRCOM!!!!!! (and frankly I find that quite arousing)

They are due to come tomorrow morning to do another test so, fingers crossed

btw mesh network radio network looks like just the thing, I wonder why IBB or anyone else don't use that approach? It would be a way around being denied service by a few trees which is a bit crap.

pork99

btw what happened to this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32453

pork99

failed the test again - no broadband options now because local exchange (Sandyford) not upgraded

bloody trees still in the way - I think I will be out some night over the w/end with a chain-saw

looks like I'll be going for UTVip flat rate then

rymus

Does anyone want to speculate as to the price of that Nokia Rooftop Mesh kit?

pork99

Does anyone want to speculate as to the price of that Nokia Rooftop Mesh kit?

Rymus, how would radio mesh work if IBB don't support it?

If it was possible I would not mind investing a bit of cash in the equipment.

Mike from IBB did the test this morning with the actual reciever that they install instead of the directional arial. Still not suffient signal strength, but he did install it for a guy just up the road from me who is aligned with a gap in the tree line, luckily for him. So I suppose in a mesh network I would get the signal relayed from him?

However if you're reading this Mike/LizZard, thank you very much for your efforts, you did your best, I suppose I'm just a victim of geography

I'll go with UTVip for the time being its better than getting shafted by eircom

morges

Originally posted by Muck
Timod is right and the ODTR has tentatively reserved bandwith around 5.8Ghz for MESH radio without commenting on its frequency hopping characteritics. 5.8Ghz is not very useful in rural Ireland even if the output limits are more relaxed than 100Mw as has also been indicated.

1) I had Irish Broadband in mind when suggesting mesh radio. Their coverage area is hardly "rural"!

2) I can't see why mesh radio can't use both directional and omnidirectional antenna depending on customer location.

3) The system can work with 2,4 GHz freq. bands to give longer range http://www.wbs.nokia.com/docs/WRdatasheetV3.pdf

4) With the Nokia Rooftop product there is a range of 1,75 miles (the document was written for the US market) between nodes (ie households) using built in omnidirectional antenna.

morges

pork99

why isn't any provider deploying MESH radio, anyone?

it seems to be the "magic bullet"

sceptre

Is this (4 pages - click on the piccies) what this mesh thing is all about?

If not, still an interesting article (been waiting for an opportunity to post it here after finding it in the print edition).

pork99

Is this (4 pages - click on the piccies) what this mesh thing is all about?

it seems to be similar but with laser instead of microwave signals

melachi

Failed aswell.
Damn trees or whatever. They should send up a weather balloon or something

rymus

Originally posted by pork99
Rymus, how would radio mesh work if IBB don't support it?

did I mention IBB in my original post?

pork99

did I mention IBB in my original post?

no but they are failing LOS tests all over the place in the area of Dublin they are meant to be serving

I've only a very basic knowledge of this (mostly from a quick read of those nokia pdfs, thanks morges) but it seems to me that radio mesh would be the answer to their problems (or are there any regulatory obstacles?)

It would be nice to see IBB take off and cover the rest of the country, some genuine competition for a change, improving broadband availability all round and driving down prices, ah well a man can dream damnit!