Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
Wicca/Paganism
-
29-10-2002 11:39am#1
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
The modern day form of Wicca was (invented) errr....well, started as a public practice by Gerald Gardner (a crazy man). This has been debated, of course...everything is. But most evidence points to himself being the one to start the trend. In 1954 he published a book called "Witchcraft Today" that gained many followers. He claimed to have been initiated into Wicca and was following old practices, and in truth many of his tenets were based on old Celtic and Norse beliefs and what little we DO know of the Druidic 'religion'. Over time, Wicca (as religions do) fractured and now there are dozens of 'traditions', one of which is closely based on Gardners work and is called "Gardnerian Wicca". There's also Faerie Wicca, Dianic Wicca (based on Diana the Huntress) and others. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there's a Lemming Wicca, at this stage, as it's become "hip" to be Wiccan and people invent endlessly.
In my own personal opinion, Gardner was a nut whom was more into starting a cult than an open, loving religion. But, that's just me, and I don't want to debate on the subject, so hate me quietly for that opinion if you must, don't bother flaming me on here. He's called The Father of Moden Wicca, because he either invented it (not that there's anything really wrong with inventing a religion if you are basing it on old religions...) or brought it back to the forefront after decades (centuries) of being hidden. He published his book directly after England repealed their Anti Witchcraft laws. He wasn't the first to try and bring it to the world, several others published books before he did, but he waited until the laws were repealed, hence his success.
I am a pagan. I am happily pagan, actually
I just am not "Wiccan". More out of societal bull**** than any serious issue with the word "Wiccan"...however, people hear someone say "Wiccan" and think that horrid movie "The Craft" or some such other teen horror flick that is 90% bullsh|t. On the other hand, what I actually practice is a very odd blend of Celtic and Native American spirituality, so it's not technically "Wiccan" anyway.
Sooooo...modern day Wicca is not neccessarily the religion of the Ancient Celts, any more than the Catholicism many practice today is the same Catholicism of a thousand years ago. There are tie-ins, of course, but it's not quite the same.
The Devil, as someone pointed out, is a construct of Christianity. Very true. Actually, the Devil is the Christians taking the Horned God (The god of hunting, death, and rebirth) and making him out to be evil, or so evidence supports. I personally see a LOT of ties between pagan beliefs and Christian beliefs, and current theory (that has been proven, to a point...) is that the Christians, when they were Crusading, 'whitewashed' a lot of pagan beliefs in order to make them easier for the pagans to swallow, and still be faithful to their religion they were killing people to adopt. The Devil, as pointed out, comes straight from pagans and the Horned God, (or think of him as Pan, with the horns and cleft hoofs...well, Pan was in legend a faun!).
The word Wicca has been debated as to where it comes from. Some people say it is derived from "wita", an old english word meaning counselor or wise person. Others say it derives from an old Pictish word for tree. And still others say it comes from an old word for willow.
And naturally, every trad is different. Gardnerian wicca is based on the coven philosophy. You cannot practice alone and intiate onself through studying, and have to move through degrees in the coven.
The trad of Pecti-Wita is a tradition influenced by the Picts, a pre-Celtic people who warred with the Celts. Pecti-Wita is a Scottish solitary tradition passed on by Aiden Breac, who personally teaches students in his home at Castle Carnonacae, in Scotland. (he is not accepting new students, he's in his 90's.)
The trad of Seax-Wicca was organized by Raymound Buckland in 1973, he admits he made it up from the ground up, but was heavily influenced by Saxon tradtions and beliefs.
A solitary tradition merely means you don't have to have a coven to be initiated, and that you don't need to do ritual magick with a high priest and priestess, but can do your own rituals alone (or with your kids, like me
More than you ever wanted to know about Wicca, aye?
En sum, if you want to go back to your Celtic roots, go for the aptly named Celtic Wicca. And watch what books you buy, from experience of 15 years of being pagan and buying books I can only warn you that many of them are utter ****e.0 -
I just found this on a website, and figured I'd post it because it explains the "An it harm none" rule pretty darned well (thanks for posting it up to begin with, Bard!)
You Are Not A Real Wiccan If You...
... intentionally hurt people. This means physically, mentally, spiritually, or magickally.
... use "black magick". Wiccans don't believe in black magick for that matter, we believe that magick is neutral. This doesn't mean, however, that we use magick to cause bad things to happen.
... use illegal drugs. You don't need to be high to perform rituals or cast spells. Drugs will only make things more difficult for you and even lessen your inner power and energy.
... think you have "powers" because you are studying wicca. Let's be realistic here. Wiccans do not fly (unless they are in an airplane) and they can't change their hair color in the blink of an eye. As for psychic gifts, these really have nothing to do with Wicca.
... sacrifice animals. That's just plain disgusting. Wiccans respect all living things. Besides, the Goddess does not wish blood to be shed in her name.
... tell lies to manipulate another person. Don't try to control people by making them think you have power over them.
... call yourself a warlock (for guys). Warlock comes from ancient covens... it means "Oath-Breaker". Isn't this an insult?
... use Wicca as an excuse to take part in any kind of sexual act (this includes rape). Any kind of magick that involves sex without love is a no-no. Wicca is not some excuse to have sex, it never was. So get that idea out of your minds right now. (this doesn't mean, however, that Wiccans don't see sex as being a beautiful and sacred thing between two people who love eachother)
... drink or use blood in magick. Ok, this is just sick... I'm not going to go here.
... take part in criminal activities.
... distroy or deface the symbol of another religion. Wiccans show respect for all religions. Our religion is not the only way, it is just our way.
... worship Satan. Sorry, Wiccans do not even believe in Satan.
... try to recruit people. Wiccans don't go around trying to get everyone they can to join Wicca. If someone wants to learn about Wicca, they will come to us. You came to my website in your own free will didn't you?
... think you have become a Wiccan overnight. Just because you read a book on Wicca does not mean you are automatically Wiccan.
... think you absolutely have to belong to some coven to be Wiccan. There are many solitaries out there... we perform self dedications to dedicate ourselves to Wicca. (yes I am a solitary) There are Wiccans who do practice in coven settings and they are initiated. There is nothing wrong with either way of practicing... they are just different and each has its own advantages.
... attack people. This doesn't mean you can't defend yourself if you are attacked.
... brag to everyone that you are a witch. Don't just walk up to people and say "Guess what! I'm a witch!". Sorry, this is just going to get you into trouble. Also don't brag to people about your magickal knowledge and tell them you can do all of these wild things (when you probably can't)... this too will also get you into trouble. Wiccans follow the Witches' Pyramid (a creed and stucture of learning that witches follow) which states: To Know, To Dare, To Will, and To Be Silent.
... charge money to help another person through magick or prayer. You should help someone who is in need because it feels good, not because you think you can make a profit from it.
... cast love spells that are directed at a certain person or persons in particular. A love spell is a form of manipulation and that is against the Wiccan Rede. Never, ever cast any spell to make someone fall in love with you or to break two people up. Wiccans do, however, work to bring love into their life... but this is not directed at any person in particular.
"Wait! I thought Wicca was a free belief system. Why are you making all of these rules? "
The statements listed above are not "the rules" of Wicca. They are examples of things that people who have claimed to be Wiccan, have done in the past... and said it was OK to do those things because of their religious choice. Sorry guys, but real Wiccans do not do any of those things. The examples above are all against the Wiccan Rede... the one rule that Wicca does have. Wicca is a free belief system, but that doesn't mean you can do immoral things. The free belief system lies mostly in the ritual techniques and worshiping methods.
What happens if you did something immoral? I'm not going to say that it was OK, but I believe if you learned a lesson from your mistake then you will be forgiven by the God and Goddess. If you didn't learn your lesson and you continue to do immoral things due to your false belief that Wicca is a way to get what ever you want... well then, my friend, you are not a true Wiccan.
Also, on another note, if you do immoral things that are outside of your religion... then please let it be known that you are doing these things because they are your choice. Not because you "have" to do them because you are Wiccan. That's just spreading the misconceptions more. So if you're going to be naughty, don't use Wicca as a safety net.
I cut and pasted this from http://members.aol.com/fadedone33/notwiccanif.html
I haven't looked over the rest of the page, so I can't say if it's any good, but I love that list
And now, off to my regularly scheduled programming...IE, makng dinner for my kids.0 -
-
-
-
-
-
-
Okay, this is true, I missed the three fold law. That's more a consequence than a "rule" per se, but note taken.
In the East it's called Kharma and Dharma. The bad things you do, you earn three-fold back...this is Kharma. The good things you do, you also earn three-fold back, this is Dharma.
Many pagans believe in the three-fold law, or Rule Of Three.
I agree, I am always learning and I love it
_______________________________________
Posted by AngelWhore:
"No, that's Wacka Wacka Wacka...
But that had to be stopped, 'cos it didn't really go down to well with the new-age Wackans."
Thank you for the fabulous laugh!!! I rolled.
Then of course ran to share it with several other people
_______________________________________
Posted by Saruman:
"[edit] just looked at the site.. not bad. Anyway question Pepperkin, do you believe in Tarot and Astrology and stuff like that? Whats your take on it? Personally i dont. Especially Astrology. [/edit]"
Wellllll....I believe in Tarot...if I am the one doing the reading. I just seem to have a knack for the cards. Runestones I've never had luck with, tho I did give them a try.
But NEVER call one of those Tarot Hotlines!! I worked for one for about 2 months. Now, I was in a minority among my co-workers ANYWAY because I actually KNEW how to read tarot cards (been reading since I was 15, I'm 28 now) and everyone else I worked with hadn't a clue....I helped train them. Mind you, training was about 3 hours of explaining to them how to lay the cards out and explain the by-the-book definitions. I've been reading tarot cards for 13 years now, and I am STILL learning tricks, it's a never ending process. In any case, my job wasn't to answer this poor callers questions, it was to keep them on the line for a minimum of 20 minutes. Since it was $4.99 a minute, that means make the sucker pay $100 to the tarot line I worked for (of which I got $3.)
Note I said I only worked there for 2 months. That's because my call average SUCKED. I can do a quickie reading (doesn't go into much detail, but good for the poor whom called) in about 5 minutes, meaning most of my calls were between 3-15 minutes. The lower my call average, the less calls I got, as it was obvious to the company I was too nice. So, I quit.
They don't know how to read, they are trained to STALL STALL STALL (that free 3 minutes they may promise you? In that 3 minutes, they are to be getting your name and address...if you're willing to give it.) They're not trained to read cards, but to learn how to draw out words, and say things 15 different ways to keep you on the line. It's a crappy business, don't ever call one (not that you would, since you don't believe in their validity anyway....but for anyone ELSE reading this whom has ever wanted to call one of those lines...)
I'm good with my cards....I do a lot of readings for people I don't know. The Census lady talked me into giving her a reading when she came by my house to do the Census, etc and I am very rarely off. I just have a knack. So, I do believe in Tarot...in limited circumstances. I hope to someday find someone ELSE whom can read well, cuz I can't do readings for myself, and it would be neat to be on the other side of the deck!
Astrology....another iffy. Not really, and not usually. I do go to Jonathan Cainers website and check out his horoscopes... (http://stars.metawire.com) because that man is good at what he does, and he's actually got about a 95% success rate with my sign, which is astronomical (forgive the pun!!) considering that most horoscopes I have read had about a 15% success rate, which in my book falls under the heading "lucky guess".
Jonathan is good, and I've sent other people to his site whom SWEAR he has cameras in their house...so...another limited circumstances. I think SOME have a knack for it....and most don't.
As for the list I posted....well, as you said, most people will fall into at least some of the categories, including me. I HAVE intentionally hurt people, not necessarily pre-meditated but it was intentional, because a vengeful witch am I I've never done any magickal harm against anyone that I know of, however.
I've also charged people for my tarot readings. What can I say, I was living on the streets and hungry!
I've never cast a love spell tho....I can't say it's for the honourable reasons mentioned in her list. It's because I'm a realist. If it's not real, I don't want it. So it's selfishness
In any case, I've been pagan over half my life and not once called myself a "Wiccan". You can be pagan and not be Wiccan. Just explore, learn, read, learn, learn, learn (and most of the learning you will do, should you decide to explore paganism will be internal, not external. Self-honesty is a b|tch, but it becomes necessary.) Also, don't forget that just cuz you have an interest and are learning about it doesn't mean you have to BE it. I learned all about the Mormons, but never became Mormon, I was just curious.
And every now and then, notice the trees, earth, and sky, and be glad they are there.
Happy Samhain!0 -
-
Advertisement
-
Ahh, to be having a cool discussion on Hallowe'en
And moving day tomorrow! *pulls hair out and stresses*
_____________________________________
Posted by Saruman:
"So is that your oppinion or is it an actual rule or unwritten rule? Or is it a case of nice one.. this is my talent so this is my career?"
Welll....you're not supposed to. It's based on the theory that to take personal gain for your gifts is to be using your gifts for selfish reasons, and that to do so dishonours them and yourself.
There are those whom believe that do so so, puts you at risk for losing your 'gifts', such as they are. I personally don't believe that, but that is relatively common in some circles.
I've not actually read it set in stone anywhere, though I'm sure it is SOMEwhere. In any case, I figure the Powers That Be are likely to be a little more forgiving of me should I make sure that my kids are fed, clothed, and etc, than to starve them in some warped sense of honour. Plainly put, I am a single mom, and I needed the money for myself and my kids. I happen to be good at it. In my case, I don't think I would make a career out of my cards, but I will supplement if I have to! It's a lot easier than walking the streets meself :P
I guess if I screwed up by taking personal gain for my talent at card reading, then I'll find out about it sooner or later, and I'm okay with that.
"[edit] By the way, i just looked at my horriscope, both daily, weekly, monthly and yearly and i must say i have never read so much crap in my life!! Not one thing he said.. not one is even close to right about me. Not my personality nor my situation in life nor anything else... either i was born in a Star Sign other than Leo and my birth cert is wrong.. or he is talking through his arse. Thats just me though, i still cant believe in astrology.. i would in tarot cards before i believe in astrology! [/edit]"
hehehehehe Maybe he just writes better for us Cancers (I was supposed to be a Leo, tho...born early)
Well, he's not always right, but he's humourous to read, and I can gain insight from anything. Even the times he's been dead wrong, at least I've found something to ponder and noodle around in my head. And I am addicted to thinking, so maybe I just enjoy that part. I've never taken any advice he's given, so...
Then of course, there are those whom believe no standard horoscope could ever match ANY person, because of the differences we all have in times and places of birth. They say it all depends on your 'rising' sign and etc. My rising sign is Sagittarius, I think...in any case, I'm skeptical about all that. Maybe because I didn't *choose* (as they say) to be born when I was, I was deliverered by emergency c-section in a last ditch attempt to save my life, 7 weeks early. I haven't found much merit in the whole system, myself.
There are those whom believe you choose your parents, your circumstances of birth, (into a poor family or rich one, good parents or crappy ones, etc) and your time and place of birth in order to have certain astrological signs. "Life Lessons". You can learn a lot based on whom you're born to. I don't see how one can ethereally choose one's place of birth, as I think that stems more around the parents decisions than the babies....but that's just me. I'm unsure about all that. I think some people probably do choose certain things, but who knows?
But, as long as there are confused people with unhappy love lives, there will be astrologers and tarot readers. If nothing else, it serves as a band-aid for people...doesn't help a lot, but it makes them feel better. Most of my calls were pertaining to the querents love life. (those that weren't, were people asking about money. My usual reply to "will I get more money?" was "not if you call me!")
I did have one guy call and ask me if his girlfriends baby was actually his. I told him I'm a tarot reader, not a bloody psychic, and that he should ask his doctor for DNA testing, and save his money for diapers and quit calling expensive tarot lines!
And a wee bit on today
Samhain Eve was the Ancient Celtic new year and belonged to neither the old, nor the new year. This made Samhain an 'in between' time. Celts believed that the door between this world and the fairy world was 'open' on this night so, that beings from either world could freely pass from one world to the other.
The Celts held a 'Feast for the Dead' on Samhain Eve. The traditional meal was prepared. The table was then set--a place setting for all who would partake of the meal and each immediate family member who 'passed over' during the previous year. This was not a solemn affair, but instead a joyous 'farewell' to the departed loved one.
The practice of trick or treating, if I recall correctly, has only been common for the last 80 years or so. It may come from several places and traditions of old.
An old Irish peasant practice called for going door to door to collect money, bread cake, cheese, eggs, butter, nuts, apples, etc., in preparation for the festival of St. Columb Kill. The custom seems to have originated not with the Irish Celts, but with a ninth-century European custom called souling. Another old tradition that may be connected to this new one was the
begging for soul cakes made out of square pieces of bread with
currants. The more soul cakes the beggars would receive, the more prayers they would promise to say on behalf of the dead relatives of the donors.
In Ireland the greatest assembly was the 'Feast of Tara,' focusing on the royal seat of the High King as the heart of the sacred land, the point of conception for the New Year. In every household throughout the country, hearth-fires were extinguished. All waited for the Druids to light the new fire of the year --not at Tara, but at Tlachtga, a hill twelve miles to the north-west. It marked the burial-place of Tlachtga, daughter of the great
druid Mogh Ruith, who may once have been a goddess in her own right in a former age.
Since it marked the eve of the new year, many new years customs have been written down, such as new years resolutions and clearing away the old to make way for the new, both symbolically and physically. It was the time the Sun God was dying, and the Moon Goddess was strongest. Winter Solstice is when the Sun God is reborn, and that's a whole 'nother post
There are at least a billion superstitions relating to Samhain...for example, if you born black and orange candles, it will bring you good luck, but if you gaze into a mirror by candlelight after sundown, you will bring yourself bad luck. And many more, some not as fun
I love Halloween, it's my favorite holiday This was true as a kid, and remains true now.
In any case, have fun! Put a wee bit of Guinness outside for protection from faerie folk and the dearly (or not so dearly) departed
0 -
-
The crty of Trick or Treat is definatly an americanism
so Think back to the day when you we out in the pouring rain cheerly tramping form house to house it usually was " help the Hallowe'een party " that was yelled at who ever opened the door.
There was not chocolate but fruit and nuts and sometimes a lolly or two.
You seemed really well informed Pepperkin
I wish you the best in your move and in making your house a home.
" May the roof of your house never all in,
and may those under it never fall out. "
Hallow'een is My favourite time too0 -
-
-
-
-
Nah, they just capitalized on an already standardized image, helped to be standardized by Thomas Nast...in 1863.
Coke didn't start using Santa on their winter lineup until the 1930's, and "Twas The Night Before Christmas", which as well as Nasts' work helped contribute to the modern Santa figure, was published in 1922.
Cut and pasted from http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp
"Although some versions of the Santa Claus figure still had him attired in various colors of outfits past the beginning of the 20th century, the jolly, ruddy, sack-carrying Santa with a red suit and flowing white whiskers had become the standard image of Santa Claus by the 1920s, several years before Sundlom drew his first Santa illustration for Coca-Cola.
The modern Santa had "elbowed aside all comers" long before the 1940s, and well before Coca-Cola co-opted him as their wintertime advertising symbol.
All this isn't to say that Coca-Cola didn't have anything to do with cementing that image of Santa Claus in the public consciousness. The Santa image may have been standardized before Coca-Cola adopted it for their advertisements, but Coca-Cola had a great deal to do with establishing Santa Claus as a ubiquitous Christmas figure in America at a time when the holiday was still making the transition from a religious observance to a largely secular and highly commercial celebration. In an era before color television (or commercial television of any kind), color films, and the widespread use of color in newspapers, it was Coca-Cola's magazine advertisements, billboards, and point-of-sale store displays that exposed nearly everyone in America to the modern Santa Claus image. Coca-Cola certainly helped make Santa Claus one of the most popular men in America, but they didn't invent him. "
All of the above is why I posted the link, evidently it would have been best to just cut and paste the key parts.
Not that it matters who came up with the modern day Santa, and I'm not trying to argue this to the death...I just love snopes.com and I love to read, so I tend to follow questions like this
Soooo, key parts of url pasted in for those whom didn't read it, and argued with me anyway....
Off with my day!0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
Merry meet, Talliesin!!!
"Pepperkins list of "what Wiccans aren't" includes the idea that Wiccans don't break the civil laws of the country they live in. While I agree with that in general a commitment to always do what one feels is the moral course of action may require actions of civil disobedience. This isn't to say that Wiccans have to be prepared to commit acts of civil disobedience either, but rather not to somehow discount those who do."
Yeah, I agree. I cut and pasted that list from a website, which was simpler than writing one myself (I included the link with the post) so it wasn't MY list specifically, but it was pretty well written.
Regarding civil laws....did you know that in MANY states in the USA, certain forms of....shall we say Bedroom Entertainment is illegal? In Maryland where I live, any position but missionary falls into the "illegal" category. Sooooooooo....Yeah, civil laws get broken sometimes. However, it is sometimes necessary to discern the difference between Morality and Legality...which can be mutually exclusive terms. The grey area is not always well defined, but it does exist.
"I really hate the word "Wicca"; really it should be "Wiccacraeft" where we have "Wicca" and "Wicca"(male) or "Wicce"(female) where we have "Wiccan", but then I suppose we're stuck with it."
*grins* Well, I absolutely loathe the term "Yank" in reference to any and all Americans, but I'm stuck with it....having been raised in a family that preferred to be Proud Southern, being called a Yank is to me about the most serious insult, but Europeans have defined the entire country in that phrase...
Not that my family supported slavery, but we've been against the capitalistic principles of the "Northerners" that they established during the American Civil War, and that persist to this day.
---Rebel and proud of it 0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement