The Islam: A radical religion?!

vlk

Not only after Sep 11 some people expressed their concern that Islam is a radical religion, not tolerant to beliefers of other denominations. I am very much undecided about that viewpoint. E.g. Orthodox Jews in Israel as well have not been treating very gentle their Palestine neighbors - not to speak of the IDF invading at least temporarily Palestine soil. And the only superpower in the world also is pursuing their goals not only by means of Christian values - I am thinking of the Quakers etc. as the first settlers. What do you think? Do we have to fear the Islam or is it just a religion as any other on the planet?

mike65

I think there is a kind of low-level fear or worry about Islamics
not because of the religion but simply due to the perception
of a ferocity of intent that Christians broadly seem to lack, ie dying for a cause regardless of circumstances. The fact that family members often condone thier dead son/daughters/husbands
actions.

Admittedly this is at leat in part due to media concentration on the driven and not the modrates in the Islamic world. Maybe some hositily by Islamics can also be attibuted to a fear the Islamic world will be overwhelmed by the secular, sinful west.

Mike.

DiscoStu

the extreme integration of church and state that is predominant in the islamic world is also be a source of unease in the west.

pertinax

I think theres an impetus in Islam that other religions dont have so much. Perhaps that might be because of talented imams or what it is i dont know. The story of the recent conversion of an orthodox jew to Islam in Israel (over the internet) makes me wonder if theres more of them then problem sorted. Fairly ironic israel the muslim state.
Any religion thats sizable will have radicals. I think the most damaging religious shower in the world today is the zionist christian right in america. Falwell and his hypocritical cronies believe in suporting israel because when the messiah comes again unbelievers (jews) will be cleansed and enslaved by the
believers (christian cronies). Thats fairly radical i think, as for dangerous, Israel fits the bill. A common theme is Israel is neccesary for jews to live in safety but whats the most dangerous country in the world for jews to live in? Israel I'd wager and all because of the agressive, unpleasable arab.
Jouranalists who cant write an article without using "anti-semetic", "muslim"and anti-semite" are growing in numbers so they are the real radicals.
If theres one word to describe this era id use hypocracy.

bugler

As someone who has no time for religion in general, it's obvious to me that any religion is only as tolerant or as extreme as the manner in which it is interpreted. The bible contains all sorts of terrible instructions for retribution should someone offend you or your lord, but these are oft glossed over, glossing over unsavoury incidents being a favourite passtime of the clergy. Occasionally they might actually be played upon, such as the Orangemen/right wing Christians of the U.S's deep south, you know...the type of bible quotes which prove that its ok to burn Catholic churches and smash their "graven images".

I won't even go into how in the distant past the Islamic Caliphate proved a safe, tolerant haven for Jews...it should be obvious that all religions can be interpreted in an extreme manner by those seeking to do so for their own ends, and for different reasons. As Marx* put it, religion is the "sigh of an oppressed creature, the soul of a soul-less world", and those who find themselves in dire or threatening circumstances may turn to it, perhaps to an unhealthy extent. Pym Fortuyn was wrong to single out Islam. As wrong as I would be to start claiming publicly that homosexual men are of questionable morality, due to their spreading of STDs due to their, shall we say lack of inhibition.

I think by far the most overt religious radicalism in the region is to be found in the Jewish settlers, and by default the Israeli government, who tolerate and encourage the dominance of mythology over law. I say it is the most overt because it flies in the face of international law and opinion, and has drawn no effective remedy over the last quarter of a century, indeed, the main player seems unwilling to grasp what the most basic condition for peace in the conflict is.


* It's been a while since I 'did' Marx so the actual quote may be slightly different

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

bugler

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
When you die...............

It matters not how strait the gate...

Dun

I have to say that I agreed that it was a fanatical religion up until a few minutes ago when I started thinking. Islam is younger than Christianity. And can anyone remember Christianity before fairly recent times? The Spanish Inquisition? The Crusades? The Witch Trials? Seems pretty fanatical to me.

But I thought to myself, there aren't any countries held under Christian law the way that some Islamic countries are. Ah, but there were. Think of Ireland at the start (and even up to the middle of) the last Century. Think of England too - the land where Catholicism was all but wiped out by one man's wish to get his leg over with another woman.. And I'm sure nobody expects me to even start on the US (In God We Trust) :rolleyes:

How many 'Holy Wars' were there that Christians went into, perhaps knowing that they wouldn't come back? Is this not akin to the suicide bombers of today? Missionaries who went off to countries to teach people the right way, themselves bringing foreign diseases with them, but in the same way subject to more tropical ones themselves, as well as the danger of possible hostile natives (even if they weren't, the missionaries wouldn't know until they arrived). Is there not a little bit of 'not caring if you die, it's for the cause' in that?

I'm not saying Christianity or Islam is wrong. I'm not saying it's right. It's up to the individual to decide. But by no means should any one person in a country be persecuted because they don't believe in something. Perhaps down the road a lot of these fundamentalists will mellow, like the over-zealous Christians did in their own time.

As for the Jews. I can't say that it's right to talk about them in the same light (i.e. the religious sense). They are more just stubborn than fanatical in my opinion. You don't hear of any Jewish suicide bombers do you? Correct me if I'm wrong Nor do you hear of Jewish victims of rape being stoned to death by their family, under the guise of an 'honour killing'? Again I'm far from saying that the Jews are right. I don't think that anyone can say that any single country or people in the world are 'right'.

pertinax

Theres a lot less jews in the world then there are christians or muslims. No jewish suicide bombers? No i havent heard of any but.... fanatical yes....... There are thosands of orthodox jews in Israel That have/continue to use volence against orther jews , christians and muslims.

"An ultra-Orthodox Jew was sentenced to a year and a half in prison Tuesday for vandalizing the apartment of two Swiss Christian women."

"The man who confessed to killing Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin appeared in court for the first time Monday. Jewish law student Yigal Amir told the judge the assassination was meant to halt the Mideast peace process."

and so on.......
Also a case where a brothel in israel was set on fire, prostitutes inside were burnt to death. Ultra orthodox intrepretation of jewish scriptures demand the deaths of prostitutes among many others. The nasty laws of Islam often come from old hebrew law. Its the interpretation of religion that counts and americas war against islam means That terrorism will continue.

bugler

Originally posted by dun_do_bheal

As for the Jews. I can't say that it's right to talk about them in the same light (i.e. the religious sense). They are more just stubborn than fanatical in my opinion. You don't hear of any Jewish suicide bombers do you? Correct me if I'm wrong

Well I don't think Israel needs suicide bombers really, they have well equipped and aggressive armed forces. Jews not fanatical, just stubborn....hmmm don't tell these guys...

Michael Kleiner, Israeli Herut Party chairman - "for every victim of ours there must be 1,000 dead Palestinians".

Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces - "When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle."

Golda Meir former Israeli Prime Minister - "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed."

Eitan Ben Eliahu, ex-Israeli Air Force commander - "eventually we will have to thin out the number of Palestinians living in the territories."

Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv - "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves."

Moshe Ya'alon, Sharon's Chief of Staff - (speaking about the Palestinian threat) said (it is) "like a cancer – there are all sorts of solutions to cancerous manifestations. For the time being, I am applying chemotherapy."

If you want an example of a jewish terrorist suicide attack, type 'Baruch Goldstein' into google...the only religion I tend to exempt from my scathing atheist eye on the subject of sponsoring violence is Buddhism. Mind you noone is exempt from losing the rag and using religion to justify violence.

The Gopher

Any country where religious leaders wield too much influence is open to extremism,whatever he religion.Clerics are held highly in society in Saudi,which encourages the growth of Al Quaida.It may seem ridicilous but back before the 1960s if the catholic church declared holy war on the Northern protestants there would be no shortage of people willing to blow thelselves to pieces in the name of catholicism.By and large they would have mainly been women but it is true.Think-you all know of a few elderly women in your area for who religion is an insane passion-they spend thousands on religious decorations for their gardens,they go to mass 3 times a day,pray on the hour every hour etc.Do you really think that these people would be reluctant to die for god because some pope said it was right?It is pretty much the same situation in the mid east.Young men brought up in very religious homes thinking that all that matters is their faith.

DadaKopf

Religions are really political institutions. It stands to reason that any religion is capable of fanaticism because whenever people believe enough in something that they see it as the correct and only way to live, people will do extreme things to deliver their vision. Then the religious institutions - Christian churches, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism - use their power (often financial) to further their belief and power.

It's not just Islam, even Buddhism has become 'fundamentalist' in Tibet where wars and massacres against Tibetans by Tibetans have been justified in the name of religion. Really what people are talking about is power.

Islamic fundamentalism is a deeply felt attempt to redress what is perceived as a power struggle between East and West and the right to be in control of their own culture.

tHE vAGGABOND

I wonder if islamics let their priests/holy men molest childeren and get away scot free?

Dun

Originally posted by tHE vAGGABOND
I wonder if islamics let their priests/holy men molest childeren and get away scot free?

Maybe so, but at least in Christian religions victims are treated like victims and won't be killed for the honour of their family..

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by dun_do_bheal
Maybe so, but at least in Christian religions victims are treated like victims and won't be killed for the honour of their family..

They are treated as victims in the vast majority of Muslim societies, stop generalising.

Wook

Bring on the Crusade I'd say...

I know it doesn't sound PC.
But damn those guys, the extremist are just not funny anymore.
(in this regard, all religions can have the extremists)
This just doesn't work out anymore , I myself am an Atheist and have no problem with people practising their beliefs whatever that might be as long as it doesn't interfere with my life. There is interference enough as it is...Christmas, Christian Bank holidays, stupid closing times of pubs in Ireland..No sex before marriage..(:P)
People who are threatening my life and the ones of my family should be dealt with..and that has nothing to do with religion..as it stands..the bombings have nothing to with it either. So bring in the Accused and may justice be swift.

eth0_

Originally posted by Wook
Christmas, Christian Bank holidays,

Wow. You don't like bank holidays? Would you rather work? Best thing about living in a Catholic country, even though I don't get Irish bank holidays off.

Wook

Eth , clearly you didnt understand me ..once again :P
the reason i mentioned Bank holidays is just simply to state the fact that my life is allready influenced by outside religions that has nothing to do with me. Off course i love bank holidays !!
(if i wouldnt, well then people could call me an 'Atheist extremist'.

seamus

Originally posted by Wook
There is interference enough as it is...Christmas, Christian Bank holidays, stupid closing times of pubs in Ireland..No sex before marriage..

I hardly think this interferes with your life as much as you'd think. Closing times of pubs now has nothing to do with the Church. I'm not catholic (anymore) and I'd still agree with closing the bar on a Sunday afternoon. No sex before marriage? I don't think that has any impact on you whatsoever. Who is enforcing this? I think now there are only 2(?) Bank Holidays which came about as Christian things, but are now just accepted as standard bank holidays. As for Christmas, well IMO christmas has far more now to do with the whole idea of peace and togetherness, rather than a celebration of Jesus. Who doesn't want peace and togetherness?

People tend to get extreme about things when they're being oppressed because of them. The Irish are a perfect example of this. When the penal laws were in force, people risked their lives just to get to mass. When Ireland became independent, everyone was Catholic, and devout at that, because half of the struggle with Britain had its roots in religion, so once independence was gained, the Irish flaunted their 'Irishness'. Now look at us. Catholicism has slumped. But if some country decided to attack us tomorrow and ban Catholicism, you could bet your ass that the number of Catholics in Ireland would explode.

Muslim and Islam has been under pressure and attack for years, primarily from Catholicism. Look at Chechnya fss. A perfect example of where oppression of religion has lead to extremist attitudes.

My point anyway is that any religion can become an extremist religion, if you put it's survivial at risk.

I've said it before and I'lll say it now, the world would be a much nicer place if no-one had any religion........

eth0_

Wook - you said "There is interference enough as it is..." inferring you don't like bank hols, xmas etc, I didn't misunderstand, i'm sure i'd have heard you complaining about bank hols long before now if you didn't like them :-D

Saruman

Is this thread about Bank Holidays or Islam??? Just a thought.

Anyway someone mentioned the USA's use of "In God we trust" on their currency as Christian... it probably was intended that way when it was first put there but it can be taken for most religions. Islam, Jews etc.. they all believe in the same God Christians do its just the belief system/organisation and the messenger that differs. They all believe in one God though so it does not need to be pro Christian. Even Hindus and their thousands of Gods believe in one supreme God as far as i know.. all the other Gods are simply aspects of that God just like Christians believe in the Trinity. There is not a huge difference in the religions and anyway.. i dont like religions.. as was mentioned in other threads and this one, they are simply politcal powers, almost like a shadow government trying to control peoples lives.

vlk

Outsider / Insider

For some of you it may be an unforgivable sin. I have posted my issue(s) in a handful of discussion boards. The sincere intention of it being to assemble a picture of different viewpoints and believes. What I have been doing is to circumvent somehow the homogenity of intra-cultural discussion while simultaneously breaking in: insider or outsider . However, maybe you are interested in what people from other boards have been contributing; therefore the links to the several boards.

Best regards, vlk




The Pope is a friend, isn’t he?

http://www.bangladesh.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=11486

http://www.turkey.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=9226

http://www.morocco.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=7950

http://www.pngbd.com/forum/t4661s3e4ae5d748c97939d258f1ffece9d205.html

http://messages.thatsmalayalam.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000074.html

http://www.nepal.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=1356

http://www.russia.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=10851

http://www.ukraine.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=4639

The Islam – a radical religion?

http://www.bangladesh.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=11487

http://www.turkey.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=9225

http://www.morocco.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=7949

http://www.pngbd.com/forum/t4660seb08252b104d3c0218dd535897945272.html

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=68036

http://messages.thatsmalayalam.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000073.html

http://www.nepal.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=1355

http://www.russia.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=10850

http://www.ukraine.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=4640

The Gopher

Originally posted by Wook
Bring on the Crusade I'd say...

This just doesn't work out anymore , I myself am an Atheist and have no problem with people practising their beliefs whatever that might be as long as it doesn't interfere with my life. There is interference enough as it is...Christmas, Christian Bank holidays, stupid closing times of pubs in Ireland..No sex before marriage..(:P)
.

May I inquire as to which alcoholic beverage/illegal narcotic you had just drank/snorted/popped/injected/smoked before you made that post?
Well for a start the pub closing times in Ireland are widely ignored so it is irrevelant.Secondly I would suspect those rules are here since the time of the British.Is christmas really an interference in your life?You have no problem with anybody pracvticing their beliefs but you still think that christmas and chirstian bank hols should be banned?Most bank hols these days arent even religiously linked.
I agree with the rules being outdated about no sex before marriage but..........who gives a flying f`uck?The altar boy molesting church hierarchy can say whatever they like about it-I dont give a shiny sh1te.Its not as if we live in a theoracry where the churchs word is law.We wont be stoned to death.So who cares what they say?

RampagingBadger

I think the main bone of contention that most people have with Islam is that they're fairly intollerant of other religions/ideas in their socities. This stems from the fact that Islam is more than just a religion, it's also a form of government. If a you want to practice islam properly you'll have to do so from a country that operates under Islamic law. This obviously causes problems for people of other denominations living in your country. In Israel it's not illegal for christians to practise their religion, Saudi Arabai on the other hand..

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by RampagingBadger
If a you want to practice islam properly you'll have to do so from a country that operates under Islamic law. This obviously causes problems for people of other denominations living in your country.

That isn't the case in every Muslim/predominently Muslim country.
I would say the main reason people have "bones of contention" with Islam juding by half the posts here, is that they only know or want to know one particular view of Muslims.
Try talking to someone who's Muslim about their religion etc. rather than basing all these view on raving lunitics that get on Sky News etc.

RampagingBadger

Actually Frank I was in Oman (an islamic country) for 8 weeks this summer and did talk to a lot of Muslims. I'll accept that maybe intollerant was the wrong word. They believe that we have every right to do things that way that we do them. Just not in their country. As one english person I met over there said " In christianity Jesus went into the desert for 40 days where he resisted all the temptations offered by the devil. Moral of the story: Your a better person if you resist temptation. In Islamic societies Jesus wouldn't have been allowed into the desert in case he was tempted".
Now I know that Jesus is revered in the Musilm world too, but I think it's a good illustration of the differences. It'd be impossible for anyone to run socities like those in Arabia in tandem with a liberal western society.
Having said all that obviously there are muslims throughout the western world who manage to cohabit quite nicely with the rest of us. I think this proves that it's not the religion itself that acts as barrier but the intrepretation of it in the middle east. There are course predominately muslim countries elsewhere that this doesn't apply to and that I have no experience of. But I can't help thinking that they must be at least in some way similar.

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by RampagingBadger
I think this proves that it's not the religion itself that acts as barrier but the intrepretation of it in the middle east.

I'd agree there alright. My opinion is that a great deal of people's views on Islam is based on what goes on in certain countries in the middle east.
I'm of the opinion that it's as much, if not more, due to society in these areas rather than the religion itself. I know society can be based around religion.
An extreme example is the Taliban, they were not representative of Muslims, yet a great deal of people I know equated Islam to the beliefs of these fantics.

They believe that we have every right to do things that way that we do them. Just not in their country.

That's the same in any country anywhere in the world (more or less), regardless of the religion of the country.

Wook

Originally posted by The Gopher
May I inquire as to which alcoholic beverage/illegal narcotic you had just drank/snorted/popped/injected/smoked before you made that post?
?

'the reason i mentioned Bank holidays is just simply to state the fact that my life is allready influenced by outside religions that has nothing to do with me. Off course i love bank holidays !!
(if i wouldnt, well then people could call me an 'Atheist extremist'.'

(once again)

JustHalf

Originally posted by RampagingBadger
Now I know that Jesus is revered in the Musilm world too.

The Muslim image of Jesus pretty much calls the entire gospel lies. Of particular note is that Jesus was not God, and was not the Son of God.

The noble Qur'an, Al-Maidah (5):75
"The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. They both used to eat (earthly) food. See how we make the signs clear for them, then see how they are deluded!"

There's a lot of claims are about saying that Christians misinterpret the Bible, drawing the wrong conclusion from some abstraction of the Gospel.

But as clear as day:

Matthew 3:16-17
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

My other main problem with Islam is how much more often than any other religion it's used by psychos today to excuse their actions. As most other religions, it helps if you interpret it it in a "particular way". (For example, bin Laden claiming that American Muslims weren't really Muslim because they were American, and he was therefore permitted to do what he was expressly forbidden to do).

Typedef

The Islam: A radical religion?!

The word Islam means peace! Is peace such a radical idea?

I don't know, perhaps you should ask Ariel Sharon, why it is he feels the need to build settlements on the Land of Palestinians under the umbrella of (fighting terrorism), to understand how a Religion who's very name literally means 'peace' can be twisted to do violence!

Perhaps, the so called extremists and fundamentalists would be a whole lot less extreme and fundemental if the Western World were not such an imperialist force in the Arab world.

Tony Blair last night basically accused Israel of placing itself in a position where it is an oppressor of innocent people, keeping those people in poverty in perpetuity and that the only solution to the Mid Eastern Arab-Israel conflict was a two State solution, (as opposed to brutal Israeli military occupation) and that until such time as the two State solution with a quote "viable Palestinian State" comes into existance, that Western-Arab relations will always be mired and the citizens of Western Countries will be that bit less secure, due to an increased number of 'terrorists', be they Al Queda or whoever, who are motivated by root causes like the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Harry S. Truman the American President who dropped the Atomic bomb on hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians was a Christian, yet I do not see anyone accusing Christian Religions of being radical, because that partuclar man felt the need to incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians, do you?

Perhaps this is a case of self-exclusive logic here? When the 'bad guys do wrong' they are radical, but when the 'good guys do wrong' then it was for the greater 'good' of humanity.

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by JustHalf
My other main problem with Islam is how much more often than any other religion it's used by psychos today to excuse their actions.

Why do you have a problem with the religion because of the actions of a minortiy of nutcases?

JustHalf

The problem is that quite a few sects not only lend themselves to this kind of mentalism, but incite it.

Frank Grimes

It's still hardly a reason to have a problem with the entire religion.
Christians in the states bomb abortion clinics and shoot the staff, doesn't mean every Christian is going to do the same. They can also be pretty inciteful too.

JustHalf

It's hardly a generalisation against the religion. I have a problem with psycho Christian organisations too, which (like most psycho Islamic organisations) ignores the word of God where it is not convenient to their beliefs.

It just seems that, in the middle-East at least, this "psycho" Islam has a massive following.

And before anyone starts "that's just your opinion, it may or may not be psycho" I challenge everyone to describe the gang rape of a woman because her brother committed a crime as not in any way shape or form psycho.

RampagingBadger

That's just another example of taking 1 extreme action of a group of individuals and tainting all muslims with the same brush. It doesn't say anywhere in the Koran that rape is an appropiate punishment. Nor does Sharia law say that. I do have reservations about a lot of what is done under the guise of Islam but I'd never say that "psycho" Islam has a large following. When the IRA were bombing up north people might have branded the Irish as "psycho" nationalists. I think most people in Ireland were 100% against the actions of the IRA, regardless of whether they agreed with their motivations or not. Similarly most muslims would be against the actions of any terrorist or rapist regardless of whether or not they sympathised with their motivations.

JustHalf

Here's a quick and easy guide.

Followers of Sayyid Qutb (like bin Laden), are followers of "psycho" Islam.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,584478,00.html
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/islam/blfaq_islam_qutb.htm

Jerry Falwell seems to be considered a "psycho" Christian. Though I believe the guy is at least partially of his rocker, there is a substantiall difference between "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" and, to paraphrase Sayyid Qutb "you can kill Muslims who don't do what I think they should because they aren't really Muslim".

For those who instantly rush to his defence, know this... he probably would have hated you for your immorality. As an aside, God doesn't hate you.

This looks interesting, haven't read it yet:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/1018/p1s2-wogi.html

I would be disgusted by those who think this represents all Muslim opinion though, just as I would be disgusted by those who think Jerry Falwell's opinions are mine.

And it pisses me off that you can't give out about certain Islamic sects without the charge of hating Muslims being thrown against you. Flipping PC crazies. When will you learn? Being Muslim is not a carte blanche to avoid every questioning of your beliefs.

The Gopher

Originally posted by JustHalf

And before anyone starts "that's just your opinion, it may or may not be psycho" I challenge everyone to describe the gang rape of a woman because her brother committed a crime as not in any way shape or form psycho.

Actually I think that incident in Pakistan was more related to tribal tradition than Islamic law.The Pashtuns of South Afghanistan and Western Pakistan are known for their often contradictory customs-despite the fact they proclaim to be strict muslims it is considered normal for married middle aged men to keep young men as concubines.The Taliban did stanp out this practise but apparently it has become common again.Different parts of the muslim world have diffrent interpretations of the Koran.For instance in places like Sudan and Somalia,Bosnia and Chechnya very few fundamentalist women wear Afghan style veils,wearing far less hidden head scarves and so on.
Its a mad old world is religion.

JustHalf

Or, to be more accurate, people tend to crazy.

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by JustHalf
And it pisses me off that you can't give out about certain Islamic sects without the charge of hating Muslims being thrown against you. Flipping PC crazies. When will you learn? Being Muslim is not a carte blanche to avoid every questioning of your beliefs.

I'm not a "PC crazy", and I've no problem with people giving out about certain groups or whatever, but some of your posts have been very generalising in fairness.
Like Gopher said, the "punishment" rapes are more tribal than religion AFAIK and the last time it happened in Pakistan (I think) there was a huge public outrage and the guys who did it were sentenced to death.

JustHalf

They weren't all that general, and were specific to "psycho" Muslims.