Do we do enough.

The Saint

I was just thinking about the action or inaction we take on environmental issues in this country or around the world. It seems that a lot of people have a lot of good intentions and ideas but what I'm wondering is that "do these people actually voice their views to orginisations or people in a position of power?" I was looking at the StopE$$O site and saw the campaigns they run in America, Britain and France. They have successfully reduced significantly Essos profits in the UK, but why can I not find any StopE$$O campaign in Ireland. Also I cannot find site for Greenpeace in Ireland. Is it that we are good at ranting on about problems but are just too lazy to do anything about it? Why do I not hear of environmental campaigns, protests and lobbying in this country? Is it because there is no professional agencies to support or is it that most of these campaigns are run by the not very popular socialists and Sinn Fein? What can we do about it? How many people here actually get off their asses and try to make a change? We need angry people with balls to stand up with a very large support and tell the people in charge to listen and take heed to the popular will of the people. If all environmental agencies in the country worked together on large issues instead of independently then the noise would reach the people on the thrones. Or maybe in our economic comfort we are just content to sit on our behinds and criticise but do not act.

Jak

Originally posted by The Saint
We need angry people with balls ....

We do not need angry people or part time reactionaries.

We need calm rational patient people who consider the full impact of an action and look at an issue from all sides.

We need people who do more than see something they think is bad and take the law into their own hands to put an end to it.

There are a number of environmental research institutes and agencies in this country - and they do a lot of good work. They work with government and independently and steadily build a case for changes.

If you cannot find evidence of them then you simply did not look very hard.

Victor

I think part of the problem here is that local initiatives are easier to do than national initiatives, largely because green issues don't have a national presence in the media and government. Some small things like the plastic bag levy have been done, but other things like Kyoto (because it is perceived as anti-business) need a much bigger profile.

Closing IFI will help us towards meeting Kyoto, but in the wrong way.

Mysterio

Originally posted by The Saint
[...] Also I cannot find site for Greenpeace in Ireland. [...].

Greenpeace do not have individual sites for countries as obviously the enviroment is global not defined by artificial borders. Their website is http://www.greenpeace.org.

I agree with a lot of your points. I think some things work and others don't. The bag tax works. But getting people to use public transport is a lot harder.

Sandrius

right now is the perfect time for the government to actuall have a campaigian to get people to use public transport thought when you think about it. at present the roads are fairly congested almost all of the time. it ther was an initative to get people to use public transport such as more frequent trains and busses and possibly an improvement to bus carridos around the city alot could be acomplished

aine

it seems to me that in Ireland we have quite a few "environmental" groups who arent really concerned with the environment in general but rather with specific issues in their own areas...so really environmentalism in Ireland is purely the NIMBY syndrome!

Typedef

That is both a fair and an unfair point I think aine.

Here's how it is fair, yes there are particular groups in area (x) that have an interest in environmental issue (y), like residents of Marino and the construction of the port tunnel. This kind of activity stokes the fire of people who ordinarily wouldn't be environmentalists, thus local environmental groups are set up to deal with a specific, single issue situation and in many ways that is as far as those people should go. Really do the residents of Marino care about what happens in Carrick Mines? No, not really, but perhaps the point that a little more solidarity between labled 'environmental groups' would make bargaining positions stronger for the respective groups. It would also make the goals of such groups more disporate.

In this regard that is how your comment is a little unfair. Single issue groups focus on a single issue and just because you dont' want Dublin Corporation building a road under your house, doens't necessarily mean you don't think Carrick Mines should be bulldozed to make way for a new road, even though in my view, one should follow from the other.

bonkey

Personally I think the biggest problem is attitude.

Most people, possibly even all people, will agree that environmentalism is fundamentally a good thing.

Unfortunately, most people also are unwilling to make significant sacrifices to achieve this goal.

For example, the underlying mechanics of capitalism as it exists today simply do not permit staggering change to occur quickly. Even slowly is a problem.

The same applies to people. There were masses of people disgruntled about the plastic bag tax, mostly because it would either cost them in time or effort - and this was something they didnt want to do.

The same goes for public transport. If Dublin managed to implement a radically new, efficient and workable public transport system in the morning, how long before it would be used to its capability? Unless you also do something like cut down on parking to *force* drivers off the roads, I would hazard that you would be waiting for an oil crisis.

People want the environment to be better, but they do not want intrusive change. 99% of the objections to new roads are not because "it will damage the environment", but rather because "it will damage my locality". As Type said....you see precious few anti-road campaigners working against any road but the one in their locality....because its too much trouble usually.

I remember getting into a discussion/argument about recycling here some time back, and when I made some suggestions (based on how things are done here in Switzerland) one of the objections was "you assume I have space in my flat, and I dont". I'm curious as to how that objection would hold up if the same person was offered something of personal value to them for free which took up the same amount of space. I'd be willing to bet that they'd find space for (say) one of every game console on the Irish market, were it to be given to them as a prize.

The problem is not politicians, its people. Politicians have to balance what needs to be done against what can be afforded and against what people are willing to accept. There is no point making sweeping unpopular reforms when you know that they will ensure you get voted out next time around and that your replacement will most likely be someone campaigning to reverse many of the unpopular decisions you made.

I do not believe our politicans are doing enough, but personally I believe that is because at their core, they are no different to most other people in the country, and it simply isnt a priority for them. While that remains the case, and their constituents arent making it a big deal, nothing will change.

People want a clean world for free. They want a better life, with more luxuries, and want all of this to be achieved without harming the ecology. All of this is probably ultimately realisable. However, like the LUAS in Dublin, getting the end result will involve a lot of disagreement, foot-dragging, and additional inconveniences that we have to live with until we get where we're going.

There are only so many inconveniences that people will put up with.

Are we doing enough? No, we most certainly are not.
Why not? Because people dont honestly care enough to make a real effort.

You dont need legal change. Shops in Switzerland moved away from plastic bags because of consumer pressure, not governmental regulations. People recycle in excess of 90% of all aluminium packaging (tins, cans) and somewhere in the high 80's of PET plastics. All without governmental regulation forcing them to do it.

If the government has to make the laws....to be honest....we'll never do enough, because the government are taking steps to force people to do something. If they really wanted it, it would work the other way around...the people would lead the way and the government (and business) would follow.

Angry people and the like will not accomplish much. All they will do is turn the people further away from "doing enough" by p1ssing them off.

jc