Fianna Failure Should Not Take Credit For Yes Vote

bertiebowl

Chr*st I see those t*ssors from the Fianna Failure party are taking credit for yesterdays resounding victory for Ireland, Europe, and against the Nazis, racists, Christian Taliban and other lunatic fringe morons.

As far as I'm concerned Bertie didn't get off has lazy ass backside and it was people like Garrett Fitzgerald, Bridget Laffan (Alliance for Europe organiser), IBEC, ICTU, Peter Sutherland, Pat Cox and Ho Chi Quinn who won the Nice Treaty.

Hopefully we'll soon get back to roasting this pathetic corrupt useless government of general toadies and ars* lickers.

Xterminator

Originally posted by bertiebowl
Chr*st I see those t*ssors from the Fianna Failure party are taking credit for yesterdays resounding victory for Ireland, Europe, and against the Nazis, racists, Christian Taliban and other lunatic fringe morons.

As far as I'm concerned Bertie didn't get off has lazy ass backside and it was people like Garrett Fitzgerald, Bridget Laffan (Alliance for Europe organiser), IBEC, ICTU, Peter Sutherland, Pat Cox and Ho Chi Quinn who won the Nice Treaty.

Hopefully we'll soon get back to roasting this pathetic corrupt useless government of general toadies and ars* lickers.

<sarcasm>
Yes your right of course.
I dont think a single Fiana fail politician gave an interview on the Nice treaty, nor did any of them bother to debate the issue etc.
And they didnt spend a penny of their funds on the nice campaign, either I'm sure. No posters, Ads, or anything of the kind.
</sarcasm>

As Nice was campaigned for, by a number of different lobbies, no one group can claim, (or to my knowledge has tried) they were responsible for its success.
But all involved are entitled to celibrate its success, and perhaps their involvement in it.

And now that its over everbody can concentrate on domestic issues, like the next budget, the finances etc.
As for corruption, no single party has the monopoly on corruption, and i wont bother going into names.
Suffice it to say I'm sure we havent heard the last of the allegations again any party.

X

meglome

Well the Nice vote may be good for Europe and may or may not be good for Ireland depending on whom you talk to. But the way the whole thing has been run has not been good for democracy in this country. I hate to admit this but I almost agree with Typedef on many of his points on this topic. Inherently there has to be something wrong with rerunning a referendum within a year of a no vote just because the government doesn't like it. I appreciate that there were much weightier reasons this time but no one can tell me they wouldn't do it again over another issue.

Fianna Fail has lied to us, blatantly... and there is no justification for it. I’m not being naive here I know politicians lie a lot but they are not always caught out so badly.

Just to clarify two things, the referendum of June 2001 was more than a year ago, so they did not run a new referendum within a year.
And just about one of the few things that Fianna Fáil did not mislead us on in the last election campaign was that they were going to have another referendum on Nice.

It looks like this Government is going to last it's full five year term unless theres major bickering within FF or a bust up with the P.D's.

So how we all feel about the Govt's performance then might(with a small m) be completely different.
mm

Blindpew

I am amazed that the electorate fell for the government spin yet again, in the Nice referendum. This will suit no one but big business. It has given a cheap labour force to western europe and also opened up new markets. The people of eastern Europe are now to be exploited by capitalism. I fail to see now, how foreign companies can be attracted into Ireland, when they can set up in Poland for a quarter of the cost. I predict that in four years time, Ireland will again be a nation on the dole.

bonkey

Originally posted by Blindpew
I predict that in four years time, Ireland will again be a nation on the dole.

At which point it becomes a net consumer of EU funding, which drags the other economies further into the mire and benefits no-one.

Did it ever occur to you that if the professional economists against Nice couldnt come up with a solid argument for that one that maybe some of your assumptions are a little bit...what shall we say.....shaky???

jc

sceptre

One of the advantages Ireland has had is a large availability of educated native English speakers. Tied in with the favourable tax regime, it has given us an advantage over the UK. That's something that hasn't gone away after the Nice vote, it's not something that's going to go away after the accession of the new countries. The major second language for most students in Eastern Europe is German.

I agree that the credit for the approval of the amendment can't primarily lie with Fianna Fail. If anything they were one of the liabilities to the passing of the referendum, due to the small percentage who were convinced that voting no was a good way to sock it to them.

The credit for the passing of the amendment has to lie primarily with the Referendum Commission. Obviously they weren't campaigning for a decision either way but their literature and adverts were a lot more informative this time compared with last time. More people were able to make up their own minds as many of the issues were explained in plain language (though I thought the second booklet arrived a little late). They genuinely made an effort that was sadly lacking last summer. I voted no as people know, but to be honest I'd much rather see a group of people who knew something about the issues voting yes than a group of people voting no who didn't know that they were doing or why.

I assume the original comment was related to Bertie's short list of "thank you"s that included a number of groups including IBEC but left out the other political parties. I assume/hope he was just singling out his own workers for praise. It it was more of a snub towards the other parties then he's just being a big baby.

Cork

IBEC, ICTU, Peter Sutherland, Pat Cox and Ho Chi Quinn who won the Nice Treaty.

Fianna Fail deserve credit for their campaign. Dick Roache, Brian Cowen, Bertie & Mary Hanafin all played an important role in the campaign.

PJ Meara & Mr. McDonagh also played an important role.

Credit must also go to the Fianna Fail organisation thoughout the country. They where there handing out their leaflets outside the opening of a bag of crisps.

I think the NO crowd should have won as they had the better arguements.

FF are great at campaigning. No wonder Bertie will be sitting pretty for the next 5 years with or without the PDs

aine

well said....Fianna Fail failed miserably in their 'campaign' last time around and this time wasnt much better!!

as a politics student I saw quite a few debates on the referendum, any of the FF speakers that I saw quite frankly lacked any sort of passion for the subject and were clearly just spouting 'party lines'. very few of them actually debated the merits of the treaty and prefered instead to follow FF's policy of half guilting the country into accepting the treaty usually starting with their favourite line of "where would we be now if France had continued to block our entrance into the union?"

victory for the 'yes' campaign most certainly lies with the likes of Pat Cox who's passion and vision for the union are evident every time he opens his mouth to speak on the topic and to Garret Fitzgerald, who has always fervently supported the union and Irish support of it!!

Blindpew

I wonder will Ireland still support the union when the farmers grants are taken away, and when the eastern hoards start arriving in Dublin airport, fit and ready to work for low wages, instead of half dead in containers and deportable?

Cork

prefered instead to follow FF's policy of half guilting the country into accepting the treaty usually starting with their favourite line of "where would we be now if France had continued to block our entrance into the union?"

This worked. FF are top class campaigners.

Pat Cox who's passion and vision for the union are evident every time he opens his mouth

I personally switched channel - when Mr. Cox opens his mouth.

I wonder will Ireland still support the union when the farmers grants are taken away, and when the eastern hoards start arriving in Dublin airport, fit and ready to work for low wages

The Nice Treaty had nothinhg in it either for Ireland or the applicant countries. Our Interests in the EU are basically - what we can get out of it.

The bigger countries are exactly the same. Look how the bigger countries are able to bfreak the stability pact.

aine

Quote

I personally switched channel - when Mr. Cox opens his mouth.



how can anybody with even the slightest interest in politics switch channel when Pat Cox is speaking, whatever your party colours you should be intensely proud that an Irishman has managed to achieve what Pat Cox has!

as leader of the European Parliament he has proven that Ireland is a force to be reckoned with in the EU and that as a small country we are well capable of representing ourselves on the international stage and in the case of the EU, almost over representing ourselves. Pat Cox is just the well known figure among the legions of Irish men and women who hold extremely influential positions within the European civil service etc!!

gandalf

Don't mind Cork Aine, he sees everything thru FF tinted glasses.

As for FF's contribution to the Nice Treaty debate, the Yes side won despite FF & the PD's. They were pathetic, Biffo Cowen was clueless, Bungling Bertie well lived up to his name, at least they shut O'Cuiv up this time

As regards Pat Cox I do admire where he has gotten in the EU and it shows that he is a very shrewd politician, I however do not like the man at all.

Gandalf.

Cork

Mr. Cox is an MEP for my area.

As regards Pat Cox I do admire where he has gotten in the EU and it shows that he is a very shrewd politician, I however do not like the man at all.

What has he achieved?

Biffo Cowen was clueless, Bungling Bertie well lived up to his name, at least they shut O'Cuiv up this time

FF put in a great campaign. Your BIFFO comments are very telling. If you want to go on about Garrett Fitzgeralds loan write offs? Do you want to go on about state companies contributing to the IBEC campaign? Do you want to go on - about the Labour partys campaign?

At kleast Brian Cowen does not use the word "n*****" as used by Enda Kenny.

Don't mind Cork Aine, he sees everything thru FF tinted glasses.

Untrue - I voted No in the NICE treaty as I maintain it is a bad treaty. Look at the CAP talks at the moment. Look at how badly the applicant coutries fared?

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
What has he achieved?

He's president of the European Parliament. He doesn't get to press the nuclear button but he's closer to it then I am (for example). I'm not the greatest fan of the guy tbh (he's something of a slimey shrewd self-serving operator, though I suppose that's the dictionary definition of a politician in any case) but I can appreciate that he's done well on the EU political front. Mind you, they do like to elect independent MEPs to the post and there aren't all that many of those.

At kleast Brian Cowen does not use the word "n*****" as used by Enda Kenny.

Have you ever been in the presence of Cowen with a few pints on him after a party conference/campaign/foreign affairs pissup? You might be very surprised me lad (though I'll concede that I've never heard or heard of the guy using the n****r word. Of course I've just used it, but that's context for you).

Cork

He's president of the European Parliament.

Thats fine - but what diffence has he made? What has he done for the EU? What has he done for Ireland?

Can anybody name 3 things?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

sceptre

Originally posted by daveirl
* If you are intending to try and be next leader I'm sorry for being so dismissive

Cork

All in All - FF campaigned well for this treaty.

I think that we were sold a pup. (no offence to pups)

I think that from todays newspapers - we might be forced in a defacto way adapt an EU constitution.



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