First Nice Results In - Looks Like A Yes

daveirl

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DMC

Yep, looking like 63/27 for Yes.

http://www.referendum.ie/

All you need.

DadaKopf

It's all over. It's a Yes.

daveirl

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daveirl

This post has been deleted.

DMC

Last time, only 2 constituencies voted in favour. Now, looking espically the way that Dublin South-West, Tallaght voted, I cant see if there will be a No voting constituency.

I never thought I'd be talking about swing when it comes to a referendum, but in this one, you can!

bonkey

Originally posted by daveirl
Unfortunately everyone is applauding the electronic voting which I don't like but I do like a Yes vote so I'm happy

Ppl are applauding because you can get accurate tallies immediately, as long as you are willing to assume that the system is honest.

Of course, this inevitably allows the nay-sayers to cry on about deliberately corrupted code designed to produce the desired result regardless of the inputs.

As a somewhat-geek, I would only say that a chip can feasibly be re-engineered to show how it worked and what it did, enough to prove the accuracy and honesty, unless you wish to posit a conspiracy of incredible detail.

While I'm still undecided about the correctness of the lack of ability to spoil a vote, I find it hard to fault electronic voting as a concept.

Having said that, I havent studied the Irish implementation (nor any other) so I cant honestly say how good a solution is offered......

jc

mike65

I'm off to watch the RTE special now, I just hope the actual turnout was a good one so there can be no arguments about "the will of the people..." etc.

Mike.

mike65

I'm back, RTE are either lying or running way over schedule.

Mike.

sceptre

They started the coverage at 11 instead of midnight as the results came in so quickly. Sky EPG has the show running till just past 2 but I see they're continuing the movie they were showing from 9 instead.

mike65

Tossers!

Mike.

daveirl

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Cork

Well. The vote seems to be a Yes one. As a democrat - I accept it.

I worry that in an enlarged EU - We will indeed have little to no influence & We will need to become a net contributor to build up infractructure in the applicant countries.

Apart - from all the pretty good things that have come from Europe such as some pretty good social legalislation. The No people have got to remain focused and form new alliences.

Spain and France are about to break the Maastrict stability pact. Prodi has stated that these set of contidions are stupid. I think that the Euro (alrady are weak currancy) is in peril as a bona fide currancy.

I think that Germany, Frace & UK have moved this debate on whether we want a federal Europe. With such a small population - we will not have much influence.

We have came from a position to where all the eyes of Europe were on us - to one where they won't give a damn.

But - I respect the Irish peoples verdict. I saw the reasons why people voted Yes & No. Let us hope, we as a nation made the right decision.

PhilipMarlowe

Originally posted by Cork
...& We will need to become a net contributor to build up infractructure in the applicant countries....

And this is a bad thing how, exactly?
Is there some magic set of circumstances that we could keep on receiving more than we give for ever and ever amen?

bonkey

Originally posted by daveirl
Take a look at this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67415

Already had. Lillington is wrong. I've answered in that thread.

jc

Cork

Originally posted by Licksy20
And this is a bad thing how, exactly?
Is there some magic set of circumstances that we could keep on receiving more than we give for ever and ever amen?

Resources are scarce.

Where will our net contribution come from?
Our Health budget?
Our Roads budget?
Education budget?

The exchequer is not awash with funds - And we longer believe in labours 5 point little card which promised to do magic in the ballot box..

These funds will have to be found.

Mr White

Legal immigration is running at 36,000 per annum,illegal at 10,000,currently.Now with free movement into Ireland for East Europeans from day 1 of accession we'll become a nation of foreigners very quickly.

Ireland;it was good while it lasted.

Bard

Originally posted by Mr White
Now with free movement into Ireland for East Europeans from day 1 of accession we'll become a nation of foreigners very quickly.

Grand. That's better than a nation of racists and xenophobes. I'm glad for you that you don't live in Manchester or London :rolleyes:

At the last minute I was convinced (by someone with a lot of experience in and knowledge of both national and European politics) to vote "yes" after intending all along to vote "no". Don't ask me the reasons why as I wasn't interested enough in the issues at hand in the first place to actually remember, but it seemed like the right decision to make.

swiss

Legal immigration is running at 36,000 per annum,illegal at 10,000,currently.Now with free movement into Ireland for East Europeans from day 1 of accession we'll become a nation of foreigners very quickly.

Would you prefer to have an Ireland just like your namesake Mr. White. This isn't the thread to discuss the political effects of immigration. Either start up one either here or in humanities if you want to discuss that.

I for one welcome legitimate asylum seekers into the country. Illegal immigration is a legislative issue, and one best not dealt with in this thread.

mike65

Bloody Foreigners! er.....:p

At the last minute I was convinced (by someone with a lot of experience in and knowledge of both national and European politics) to vote "yes" after intending all along to vote "no". Don't ask me the reasons why as I wasn't interested enough in the issues at hand in the first place to actually remember, but it seemed like the right decision to make.

Good grief Bard weeks of arguement here, there and everywhere then you change your mind...! Still at least you voted.

Where will our net contribution come from?
Our Health budget?
Our Roads budget?
Education budget?

The exchequer is not awash with funds - And we longer believe in labours 5 point little card which promised to do magic in the ballot box..

These funds will have to be found.

Cork we can't start puting the hat out to the EU for current spending, we never could. That €40 billion debt is ours, owed to the banks of Ireland and beyond. (Though you could argue EU dosh for other matters, meant we borrowed less than otherwise would have been the case).

Mike.

Bard

Looks like every single constituency in Ireland said NO!.... to Typedef

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
Resources are scarce.

Where will our net contribution come from?
Our Health budget?
Our Roads budget?
Education budget?

The exchequer is not awash with funds - And we longer believe in labours 5 point little card which promised to do magic in the ballot box..

These funds will have to be found.

And your point is?

For years, our resources have been built with other people's money. We didnt have the cash, and someone else gave it to us.

We never had a problem accepting it.

Further to that, I can think of very few nations in the world (except perhaps some oil-exporting nations) who generate enough revenue that their government's couldnt spend all that they earn and more.

Which means that any nation who gave us cash previously had to answer the same question. Where did they make the cutbacks to give those damn paddies some cash.

Sure, that wasnt our problem, but we will never be in a position where we can say "sure, we dont need this money - you have it". Knowing this, we still agreed to a system where we would become net contributors eventually.

The argument that "we cant afford it yet" is null and void, as there will never be a time when we can afford it in absolute terms.

jc

bonkey

Originally posted by Mr White
Legal immigration is running at 36,000 per annum,illegal at 10,000,currently.Now with free movement into Ireland for East Europeans from day 1 of accession we'll become a nation of foreigners very quickly.

And given that the No camp were the ones arguing that Nice was not about expansion, and that expansion would occur inevitably without Nice anyway, exactly how is your point relative to what we were discussing????

jc

daveirl

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Cork

The argument that "we cant afford it yet" is null and void, as there will never be a time when we can afford it in absolute terms.

I agree with you. But the Irish tax payers will have to come up with the € or else services will have to be cut back.

Germany has now broken the stability pact. They are a range of savere penetys for this.

Do you thing Germany will be punished?

I really don't think so.

If we broke this pact.

Hospitals would be closed down all over the country.

Originally posted by Cork
Hospitals would be closed down all over the country.

Thats a tad melodramatic.
mm

mavo

IRISH FREEDOM was lost Mick Collins would not be pleased :mad:

shotamoose

Originally posted by mavo
IRISH FREEDOM was lost Mick Collins would not be pleased :mad:

Good thing he's dead, so. But it makes me wonder how Brian Boru would have felt about enhanced cooperation on the distribution of structural funds. :rolleyes:

Mr White

Most visa holders(1 year immigrants)come from Eastern Europe;many illegal immigrants(refugees)come from there too.Since Mr.Cowen has made the unaccountable decision to admit all applicant country's citizens from day 1,whose to say more won't come here?Especially since the larger countries like Germany will have a 7 year ban on free movement.Where else can they go?

Thanks to the YES vote there is nothing to keep these 'bought and paid for' politicians in check.

And yes,I'd like Ireland to remain white.What's wrong with that?

bonkey

Originally posted by Mr White
And yes,I'd like Ireland to remain white.What's wrong with that?

Well, I'd be interested in hearing a non-racist justification for that....

jc

gandalf

Originally posted by Mr White
...
And yes,I'd like Ireland to remain white.What's wrong with that?

Well forgive me for stating obvious here but aren't all Eastern Europeans white !!

Or are they shades of white. Like a White with pastel hint of Lemon or how about Apple white. Maybe you can define what the Irish white colour is ??? :rolleyes:

As for where else can they go once they see the mess this country is in thanks to the idiots in Fianna Failure (thanks bertiebowl) and the Progressive (thats a joke) D!ckwads I'm sure they will keep clear of us. Then again I'm sure they can expect a nice warm Irish welcome from your youth movement.

Gandalf.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Mr White
Thanks to the YES vote there is nothing to keep these 'bought and paid for' politicians in check.

What about the Constitution?

Bard

Originally posted by Mr White

And yes,I'd like Ireland to remain white. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that statement is the ignorant racist/xenophobic nature of it.

Obviously.

Mr White

What's wrong with that statement is the ignorant racist/xenophobic nature of it.

So what's the plan..a black Ireland?

Bard

Originally posted by Mr White
So what's the plan..a black Ireland?

my aren't you making a good start on the boards?

There doesn't have to be a "plan".

But if there were one, it would be an Ireland that's open to cultural and racial diversity and not displaying outmoded racists traits - unlike yourself.

bonkey

Originally posted by Mr White
So what's the plan..a black Ireland?

No, the plan is an Ireland which doesnt pay attention to such pathetically stupid conceits such as skin colour.

The other, shorter-term, more boards.ie plan is that you will stop trolling and/or stop posting racist, inflammatory stuff here.

There are three choices :

1) Defend your statement, as requested, to show it is not racist.
2) Stop posting this antagonistic, racist crap.
3) be stopped from posting this antagonistic, racist crap.

Feel free to choose any one of the three.

jc

Mr White

OK,Bard,you've a lot of posts.harty-har-har.Is there no room for diverse opinions on this board?

I want a homogenous white Ireland because the alternative is a disaster,wherever it's been tried.Also,there is the small matter of consent:we weren't asked whether we wanted to become a multiracial experiment,just as Minister Cowen didn't ask if we wanted to become a slavic society in 2004.

What is it about 'white' that's racist,anyway?I think lemmings like you are oblivious to the double standards in your own thinking.Black pride is admirable but white pride is damnable.You have the censorous instincts of the P/C cult,granted,but can you argue the point?

swiss

I want a homogenous white Ireland because the alternative is a disaster

How exactly would the alternative be a disaster? I believe that the supposed 'disaster' of a mulitcultural society would come from the racist supremacists who object to anything that strays beyond their narrow minded view of a homogenous white society. You still haven't given a non-racist reason to back this up, and I am running short on patience.

Black pride is admirable but white pride is damnable

Actually I think that black pride, if it contains the belief that being black makes one 'superior' or better in some way to white people, other than being able to resist sunburn is just as condemnable as white pride where the same conditions apply.

You have the censorous instincts of the P/C cult,granted

We don't like racists. I don't like racists. Again, we are looking for evidence that your posts are not racist. You are running thin on excuses.

bonkey

Originally posted by Mr White
I want a homogenous white Ireland because the alternative is a disaster,wherever it's been tried.

Well, I live in a nation where 1 in 7 people are foreigners. Up to 1 in 3 are of foreign birth, or are first-generation naturals.

As well as 4 major indigenous cultures, we have large influxes from 4 surrounding nations, a fair chunk of Americans and British, as well as a healthy dose of Serbs, Croats, Albanians, and Tamils. I've also noticed a significant portion of far-asian descent. And these are only the significant minorities. There are countless other nationalities, races and creeds represented.

We have one of the highest standards of living in the world, coupled with one of the lowest crime rates, particularly when it comes to violent crime. So-called racial crimes are all but non-existant.

I would dearly love to know how this is a disaster.

jc

p.s. If you havent figured it out yet, I'm talking about Switzerland.

p.p.s. Before you try....don't make any more sarcy comments like those you levelled at Bard. Especially not at a moderator. Maybe you should read our forum guidelines and decide whether or not you want to stick around.

daveirl

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Bard

Originally posted by daveirl

much more fun to destroy his points

I was going to... but yourself, swiss and bonkey did such a good job of it I decided I needn't bother

Mr White

Does anyone post on this board besides moderators?It's convenient for you that you can spew your own cultist opinions and then threaten to delete opposing views.

Swiss wrote:

Would you prefer to have an Ireland just like your namesake Mr. White. This isn't the thread to discuss the political effects of immigration. Either start up one either here or in humanities if you want to discuss that.

I for one welcome legitimate asylum seekers into the country.

That's mighty white of you Swiss,especially since you don't live here.I seem to recall an anti-immigration party doing well in Switzerland recently.(Swiss People's Party?)After a while the 'alien nation' experience looses its novelty for even the most determined ethnic relativists,eg,Holland,France,Britain.

You probably don't know this but immigration WAS an issue in the Nice referendum.The fact that 11 of the 15 current member states are to have a 7 year waiting period before East Europeans can move to their countries means that the remaining 4-Ireland,Denmark, Holland and Sweden-will attract a disproportionate number of immigrants.If Germany is concerned about their labour market being destabilized,what chance does Ireland have?

I'd prefer some controls on this,but wasn't asked my opinion.If a multicultural system emerges in Ireland it should at least have a democratic mandate.

Meh

Originally posted by Mr White
I'd prefer some controls on this,but wasn't asked my opinion.If a multicultural system emerges in Ireland it should at least have a democratic mandate.

Since not one single TD elected in the recent general election appear to share your opinions about immigration, I'd say that it's you who lacks the democratic mandate.

Mr White

Since not one single TD elected in the recent general election appear to share your opinions about immigration, I'd say that it's you who lacks the democratic mandate.

They weren't able to express their opinions because of the self-censorship,I mean anti-racism,pledge before the election.You don't know what they think about the issue.

Meh

Originally posted by Mr White
They weren't able to express their opinions because of the self-censorship,I mean anti-racism,pledge before the election.You don't know what they think about the issue.

There were many independent candidates who didn't sign the pledge. One of them was Aine Ni Chonaill, who shares some of your opinions about immigration. I refer you to http://www.ireland.com/focus/election_2002/results/result_dublinsouthcentral.htm:

Aine Ni Chonaill Independent Eliminated 926

2.1% of the vote. That's not much of a mandate...

Bard

seriously... don't feed the troll.

bonkey

Originally posted by Mr White
Does anyone post on this board besides moderators?It's convenient for you that you can spew your own cultist opinions and then threaten to delete opposing views.

There are three mods of this forum. All the others are mods of other fora and have no influence here.

As for the three of us, we enforce the guidelines of acceptable behaviour here. If you had read them, you would know the rules, and what you can and cannot say safely here. It is not about "opposing views". It is about views which we are not willing to entertain here, or about views which are put forward using language we deem unacceptable.

This is not a public boards system. We never claimed not to have our own rules. If you dont like them, then cope, or sod off somewhere else.

That's mighty white of you Swiss,especially since you don't live here.I seem to recall an anti-immigration party doing well in Switzerland recently.(Swiss People's Party?)

Err, I'm the one living in Switzerland. Not Swiss. Also, despite there being a somewhat popular anti-immigration movement here, it would apply to an Irish person like myself as equally as anyone else who sought naturalisation. It is not a racist movement.

If you were to argue that you wanted to keep Ireland "Irish", then you might be somewhat more in line with an anti-immigration movement.

However, you still havent managed to explain how keeping Ireland "white" is anything but a racially motivated opinion.

swiss

Originally posted by Mr White:

That's mighty white of you Swiss,especially since you don't live here

Oh dear. FYI, I'm Irish and live in Ireland. The nick "swiss" is exactly that - a nick. It's a bit of a long story (actually it's not, but I couldn't be bothered telling it right now).

As I recall, bonkey asked you not to level sarcy comments at other boards members, especially not moderators. Heres another one

You probably don't know this but immigration WAS an issue in the Nice referendum

Of course you're right :rolleyes:. I know you're new here, so you probably won't have seen the pics that were linked several times by one of our other boards members, and was even in a 'sticky' thread that was setup specifically for Nice and the issues. I on the other hand have. However, the dangers of 'multiculturalism' as you put it, is important enough to merit it's own thread, and was also an abberation from the thrust of this thread. A thread that fully explores all the issues pertaining to Nice would quickly become overburdened.

Now, this thread is getting off topic, and is also descending into the realm of personal insults. Bard is right.

Thread locked