Timber Frame Houses

PH01

I'm building a house soon and I was wondering if anyone here has built a timber frame house or has one.
I basically know what the pros and cons are, but I'm looking for peoples own experiences, like would they go though it all over again

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

PH01

Apparently not. Though timber frame houses does conjure up images of the 3 little pigs story. Houses built with bricks will keeps the wolfs from the door.
Modern timber frame houses are suppose to be sturdy enough and in some cases just as good as block built houses.

coupe 02

at the moment im involved in a few housing developments around munster. Seriously look into doing it in steel frame. Its new on the market, its as cheap and as dear as timber frame housing and you have the advantage of being literally able to move walls later down the line. Its more sound proof, its warmer and if needed you have no problem in putting a concrete floor on the first floor.
Look into it

PH01

Serious? Have you any more info. on it? Would you say it is economical for once off houses?

Hellrazer

PH01 you should check with the appropriate County Council as some of them have banned the construction of Timber Frame houses in their area.
My brother in law had one ordered from Austria but Wexford co council had put a stop to these houses in Wexford so had to buil a traditional bricks and mortar one.AFAIK Kildare,Meath and Wicklow are also affected by this.

coupe 02

funnily enough it is economical but only if your going direct labour.

heres a link

http://www.fusionbuildingsystems.com/Why_Steel_Frame_/why_steel_frame_.html

this is just one company, there is a few

PH01

Originally posted by Hellrazer
PH01 you should check with the appropriate County Council as some of them have banned the construction of Timber Frame houses in their area.
My brother in law had one ordered from Austria but Wexford co council had put a stop to these houses in Wexford so had to buil a traditional bricks and mortar one.AFAIK Kildare,Meath and Wicklow are also affected by this.

Didn't know that. Thanks for the tip.

PH01

Originally posted by coupe 02
funnily enough it is economical but only if your going direct labour.

heres a link

http://www.fusionbuildingsystems.com/Why_Steel_Frame_/why_steel_frame_.html

this is just one company, there is a few

Thanks for the link.
I was going to email them but the don't got an email address. They have a web site but no email contact address. Strange or what?

coupe 02

info@fusionbuild.com

I know they wanted to break away from single houses, but they will still know whos doing single houses if they have concentrated on just housing developments

eth0_

How can timber framed houses last as long as brick built ones? How do you prevent rot or woodworm etc?

PhilipMarlowe

Try www.kingspan.com or http://www.kingspanpanels.com/Ireland/index.html for insulated panels that might go well with a steel frame house...

I will certainly consider this when I build my house in the next few years.....
Frame, roof (insulated kingspan again) and shell would be very fast to assemble and then I could finish it (protected from the elements) at my own pace....

Now if I could only get my brother to hurry up and design the damn thing :rolleyes:

coupe 02

kingspan havent that nice a range, if you go to yahoo and type in domestic cladding panels theres a company in limerick does super ones.

PH01

Originally posted by eth0_
How can timber framed houses last as long as brick built ones? How do you prevent rot or woodworm etc?

Funny I was talking to a builder last night (I'm ringing around looking for quotes at the moment) and I asked him about timber frame. He said he wasn't mad about them. He didn't mention rot or the like, but termites and rodents could get into the woodwork.
He also said that they may not be as hard wearing as conventional houses. As it is far easier for kids to knock chunks out timber frame than block houses. And it is far easier to hang things on block houses then timber frame.

All this is making me lean towards conventional block/brick houses.

Borzoi

Builders, and most tradesmen are notorious for 'knowing what they like, and liking what they know'. If you are serious about a timber frame house talk to the people here who are importing them.

Bear in mind that most houses in the US and Scandanavia are timber frame, so there lasting ability shouldn't be in question.

BTW I've noticed the concrete society or Whomever are promoting concrete homes are claiming that they're warm homes - they are if they're insulated, on the other hand wood is a natural insulator.

coupe 02

look its down to simple things really

cost
&
time of construction

to build a fitted out house via a builder its cheaper block/brick
to build a fitted house direct labour go with timber frame.

If you want to take your time building go with block
If you want to be in asap go with timber.

Timberframe houses are generally warmer, butttt, youll hear a mouse fart upstairs in a timber house.
Builders dont like timber frame because it doesnt seem to justify the price they will charge you.

Anyluck with fusion? I know theres a duggan steel as well, there ment to be more intrested in one off domestic houses.
Centuray Homes in cork are going to steel I think soon.

The reason timber frame houses arent as durable is that its only plaster board walls. But if you live in a semi-d houses with stud partitions upstairs, then its the same as that but all over the house.

we fear the unknown. But as I say go with timber if your going direct labour and want in asap. Go with block if its going to be a builder and your in know great hurry.

PH01

Originally posted by Borzoi
Builders, and most tradesmen are notorious for 'knowing what they like, and liking what they know'. If you are serious about a timber frame house talk to the people here who are importing them.

Absolutely you're right there alright. I listened to what he had to say and accepted his opinion.
I'm building this house in the west so I'll have to figure out if the builder is expert enough to handle timber frame. It's a vital desicion to make as I won't be on site every day - every weekend at best - so in the end I'll have to use what's there.

Originally posted by coupe 02
look its down to simple things really

cost
&
time of construction

to build a fitted out house via a builder its cheaper block/brick
to build a fitted house direct labour go with timber frame.

If you want to take your time building go with block
If you want to be in asap go with timber.

Timberframe houses are generally warmer, butttt, youll hear a mouse fart upstairs in a timber house.
Builders dont like timber frame because it doesnt seem to justify the price they will charge you.

Anyluck with fusion? I know theres a duggan steel as well, there ment to be more intrested in one off domestic houses.
Centuray Homes in cork are going to steel I think soon.

The reason timber frame houses arent as durable is that its only plaster board walls. But if you live in a semi-d houses with stud partitions upstairs, then its the same as that but all over the house.

we fear the unknown. But as I say go with timber if your going direct labour and want in asap. Go with block if its going to be a builder and your in know great hurry.

Just after sending a mail to Fusion wondering what kind of quote they give me. BTW, the quotes I'm getting from the Timber Frame companies are all coming in around the same price - funny that.

I don't think I'd be able to project manage the building of the house which means that I won't be able to go direct. So I'll probably go with a builder to do most of it anyway - the major structural parts anyway. I suppose I could always manage the glazers, plumbing, electrics, and the heating installion myself.

And time wise I'm not that much in a rush - hope to start next February and liveable by July. That's long enough I suppose?

One of my main reasons for considering timber frame are the insulation qualities. Apparently they're suppose to be 40% better at retaining the heat - that is if you believe what you read. But I suppose if you put extra insulation in a conventional block construction you should be able ot achieve similar results?
What do ya reckon?

coupe 02

the old way of contructing block houses was to

1. have a 100mm block or brick wall outer leaf
2. have a 100mm cavity between the inner and outerleaf
3. place 50mm insulation inside the cavity, up aginst the outside of the innerleaf.
4. have a 100mm block wall innerleaf that would be skimmed and plastered for the finish. Then apply your paint.


new construction methods is
1. have a 100mm block/brick outer leaf
2. have a 50mm cavity
3.have a 100mm block wall inner leaf
4. then your 50mm insulation
5. then your plasterboard, skimmed, painted. etc.

Ive recently designed a house for a guy who wanted a timber frame house, but decided on bloack at the last minute. For the additonal warmth we mixed the two.

100mm outerleaf
100mm cavity
50mm insultaion within cavity
100mm innerleaf
50mm insulation
plaster finish
painted.

Only problem is rooms got smaller by 50mm all round. Warmest house Ive ever been in though. Also Its a bit more sound proof too.

PH01

Originally posted by coupe 02

Ive recently designed a house for a guy who wanted a timber frame house, but decided on bloack at the last minute. For the additonal warmth we mixed the two.

100mm outerleaf
100mm cavity
50mm insultaion within cavity
100mm innerleaf
50mm insulation
plaster finish
painted.

Only problem is rooms got smaller by 50mm all round. Warmest house Ive ever been in though. Also Its a bit more sound proof too.

Wow, new that's insulation. Should be able to heat the place with a match!
Is that normal practice now?

coupe 02

internal insulation is all the latest craze. but doubling up, thats just my cold hearted accentric buddy. His neighbours are kept warm from his house hahahahaha.

PhilipMarlowe

Duggan steel is here - http://www.euprofiles.com

I like the idea of concrete floors upstairs which is impossible with timber frame...

Nice Oak frame house on Grand Designs tonight btw... STG£350k to bulid :eek:

PH01

Originally posted by Licksy20
Duggan steel is here - http://www.euprofiles.com

I like the idea of concrete floors upstairs which is impossible with timber frame...

Nice Oak frame house on Grand Designs tonight btw... STG£350k to bulid :eek:

Why is concrete floors upstairs good?

Also, been watching Grand Designs for a while and the people involved always seem to get stressed out during the building project - I mean really stressed-out! On the show the last week where the wife took on the role of project manager after the architect was fired - she nearly had a nervious breakdown (she probably did). It didn't seem worth it.

Last night show was good - nice house. Not sure about the open plan though it's open plan that I've designed in for my proposed house. They looked cold last night sitting on the couch even though there was a fire blazing behind them. They probably didn't have the sub-floor heating on.
BTW - does anybody know anything about Sub-floor heating?

PhilipMarlowe

I like the concrete floors for the strength, noise proofing and for under-floor heating stuff...
If your house is blockwork you can stack blocks on the 1st floor while you build the 2nd storey with a concrete floor... move around wheelbarrows of cement etc upstairs while building... I just think it makes it easier to build and the lack of noise is a big one, especially when you have kids...
Plus in the event of a fire, the structure should be less at risk?

Brothers house is open plan, lots of glass, some rooms are double height and with the underfloor it is very warm.... no crappy radiators taking up wall space and looking crap... individual temperature control in each room. Its a very neat system - again we did a lot of it ourselves (no real previous experience).

PH01

Goin' to go for the sub-floor heating myself. And I got a quote for a 148m sq. house -
€4700 - not bad?

Figment

I do a bit of work for a company that is launching steel frame buildings to the market.
They seem to be the best value i have seen yet. Loads of advantages over the wooden and concrete homes.

coupe 02

call me crazy but I generally found underfloor heated houses, having hot floors rather than real warmth in the house.

Generally you have two types, you have the plastic pipes which carry water and operate like the tradional rads or you have the copper wire laid down and wired to timer switches. From experience the copperwire is cheaper to lay and cheaper to heat.

If your going for open plan, and trust me if done right can be very sexy, if done wrong can look like a demo house in a warehouse, you should consider putting in rads. Dont go for trad rads go for unusual more expensive rads. A client of mine recently went for rads in his living room that look like fancy timber surfboards. Everyone comments on them, and they look brilliant.

If your going to run with double insulation, maybe underfloor heating will be enough, but if your gona go with single, I think you should make provisons for rads. It will cost you in the long run if you dont. Again this is just my experiences of underfloor, maybe someone else differs.

PH01

I'm not that mad about radiators, especially for open-plan.
I'm planning to go down the minimalist path for my house (which is cheaper to furnish as you don't have to buy expensive gear )and radiators don't really fit into this scheme.
But you're right about the open-plan room needing something to catch your eye. Something fancy or the like.
I will have a fireplace though - have yet to decide whether to have it open or have a stove.

coupe 02

a few simplistic things for a fire if your not fussy about heat, theirs a new company marketing electric fires in ireland, and they have some brilliant fires, ones you can hang on wall etc. they are super, ill try to dig the info up on it. If you want to make your open plan **** hot, contact
eganlight@eircom.net for lights, super lights

viking

Just moved into a new timber framed house in the last two weeks.

Originally posted by coupe 02
look its down to simple things really

cost
&
time of construction

True, it is cheaper to build. As regard time of construction, timber framed houses are water tight quicker than conventional houses which is a big plus for builders

Timberframe houses are generally warmer, butttt, youll hear a mouse fart upstairs in a timber house.
Builders dont like timber frame because it doesnt seem to justify the price they will charge you.

My house heats up so quickly that it would shock you, should save us money on heating bills, and it also keeps the heat as well.

Bull**** as regards a mouse farting upstairs, certainly not true for my house, room to room sound insulation is fantastic. Sound insulation between my house and next door is fantastic, we had an extremely loud house warming party on Saturday, I had forewarned the neighbours about the party but I still felt because of the noise that I should go in and apologise. Turns out that they didn't hear a thing!

we fear the unknown.

I know we did have some concerns about it being wooden framed, but to be quite honest there is nothing to fear and I would recommend anyone considering building/purchasing one to do so.

viking

PH01

Thanks Viking for that post.

Been talking to another builder who is 'coming around' to timber frame houses, but he said, and it's good advise, that you should be concerned about the quality of the timbers from certain ventors. He said one crowd, who are quite well known in Ireland, were pretty bad while they're others who produce better timber frame.

Do you know who the manufacturer of the timber frame was for your house?

viking

...you should be concerned about the quality of the timbers...

Yeah, I asked the company, Century Homes (*I think* it was) a number of questions regarding where they sourced their wood, what treatment was done on the wood, etc. They were very helpful and sent me back a lot of info which answered all my questions.

Which manufacturer did your builder advise you against going with? Where did he get his info from?

Feel free to ask me any questions you may have about timber framed houses...

viking