You're Fed Up. We're hungry - Esat BT

kevinmcc

Did anyone see the stuff about flat rate internet access on Esat BTs home page. Here are the links. http://www.esatbt.com

Esat BT welcomes CCI survey findings on urgent need for introduction of Flat Rate Internet Access (FRIACO)

http://www.esatbt.com/esatcom/homepage/news_events/press_releases/archive_1997/pr20023009.htm

And You're Fed Up. We're Hungry.

http://www.esatbt.com/esatcom/sbp_adoct02

Dangger

You're fed up. We're hungry.

Fed up paying too much for internet access? At Esat BT, we're determined to introduce flat rate internet access as quickly as possible.

The effects of per-minute rates are clear: our internet usage is the third lowest in Europe, at 34%; of those people who have internet access at home, less than half ever use it; and even then, average users stay online for less than four hours each month.

The solution is flat rate internet access, and we're working flat out to get it.
We're involved in ongoing negotiations with eircom, supported by the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation (ODTR) - and we're hopeful that we'll soon be in a position to offer unlimited internet access, countrywide, for a fixed monthly rate. Only then will people be able to use the web without watching the clock - making full use of the greatest channel of information yet invented, and making it a part of their daily lives.

Should be hearing early this coming week at what stage the flat rate negotiations currently are.

Gordon

"flat rate... flat out..." flat... on face.

PiE

If EsatBT are able to launch flatrate, will UTV be able to do the same?

I really wanna stay with UTV, but if EsatBT offer 24/7 access...

And I saw an EsatBT ad today saying theyre rolling out broadband all over Ireland blah... hope they're not just waffling like they've been doing for the past 2 years.

hmmm

Advertising in the SBP and trying to reach those who will buy flat rate - yes fine advertising strategy, might as well just throw the money into the river behind the Esat building.

dahamsta

If EsatBT are able to launch flatrate, will UTV be able to do the same?

The hold-up is the lack of an wholesale product, but if a product is made available to Esat BT, it will be made available to all. So the answer is yes, assuming UTV and their network provider (Nevadatele) are prepared. The last I heard on this, Nevada was trying to negotiate for a FRIACO-style product in parallel with Esat BT, but Eircom started whining and tried to get it knocked on the head. In other words, more stalling, more blocking, more anti-competitive behaviour. Asswipes.

adam

ando

Originally posted by hmmm
Advertising in the SBP and trying to reach those who will buy flat rate - yes fine advertising strategy

big advert at that, 1 entire page

DonegalMan

Originally posted by dahamsta
The hold-up is the lack of an wholesale product...

Which begs the question "Why didn't they take this high profile approach 18 months ago when they were crying to us (IOFFL) about how it was all down to the bad guys in Eircom? "

Seems to me only one possible answer, which Adam has already given in his usual eloquent style ....:)

In other words, more stalling, more blocking, more anti-competitive behaviour. Asswipes.

adam

Agreed .

Thank God for UTVInternet who eventually got these w**kers off their backsides:)

Martin

Stonemason

If memory serves me right this was the crux of the odtr inabilty to do anything.They said as soon as some one actualy shows an interest they could do something yet its been stated here at least two companys are trying to get a flatrate service going.So the question is what the hell are the odtr doing to stop Eircon jerking everyone around ?.

timod

The Sunday Business Post was full of stuff today:

On page 14 in the editorial, there was a piece about people using economics as a weapon to fight the Nice treaty on. They go on to say that we should forget about this as an economic discussion and focus on "deeply worrying trends in the international marketplace":

Despite calls for broadband technology to be made widely available around the country at a competitive price, we still languish at the foot of OECD league tables on broadband access. This is but one example. It's time to wake up to what's really happening and forget about irrelevant discussions

As mentioned above page 19 is a FULL PAGE add about EsatBT trying to negotiate a flat rate product with the ODTR.


In "theMarket" supplement

...ALTO has called on the government to act on competition in the telecoms sector....

In the computers in Business Section (which I seem to have left on the train!) there was a decent length article about esats services.

There were a few other relevant articles in the paper too. Our message seems to be getting through, well to the SBP anyway.

dahamsta

Which begs the question "Why didn't they take this high profile approach 18 months ago when they were crying to us (IOFFL) about how it was all down to the bad guys in Eircom? "

Indeed. This has always been the crux of my dispute with Esat, and this is why I get annoyed when people diss me for dissing them. Almost from the moment I got involved with IrelandOffline, I've said that a fair portion (I would estimate 50-66%) of the "battle" comes down to marketing and advertising, because, as has been pointed out in another thread, the majority of the general public is blamelessly ignorant when it comes to comms and the Internet.

The ODTR was politically precluded from telling the truth - which shouldn't imply blamelessness by any manner of means - so it was up to the OLO's to tell people they were being screwed, why they were being screwed, and what could be done to fix it. How better to do this than with ads in the national newspapers, and who better to do it than Esat, who had cash in the bank? They didn't, and I believe that this complacency was intentional, abusive, and has done great harm to the comms industry and even the economy in Ireland.

So while I welcome the initiatives they're making now, and I sincerely hope that they continue in this vein, it's important for us to remember that they're not doing it because of some moral discovery, they're doing it because it suits them, because there is a financial imperative for them to pull customers away from Eircom. Because if they don't, BT will shut them down, and Murphy will move onto his next project.

The saddest thing of all is that their complacency demonstrates a level of laziness, greed and ignorance at upper and middle management level in the company second only to Eircom. As Martin has highlighted, they could have started this whole process two or three years ago. Muppets.

adam

koneko

I saw an ad yesterday for Esat BT. All about rolling out high speed internet, cheaper phone calls, blah blah. At first I thought it was for the UK, but they mentioned calling Cork from Galway and so on (cheaper than usual).

Anyone else seen it? It's a guy going around, and everything is invisible (like his PC).

High speed internet?

crawler

To be fair , it looks like they are taking the Ryanair approach....I dont see anything wrong with what they are doing...waste of money maybe but still , nothing to harm us in any way.

ando

would the new european law have anything to do with the last few weeks push for flat rate?

remember mary o rurke blocked the flat rate ammenment in the comms bill because of a far superior european law which was to be introduced in 6months time ? I don't yet know if it has indeed been introduced as yet ?

timod

Originally posted by koneko
I saw an ad yesterday for Esat BT.....
Anyone else seen it? It's a guy going around, and everything is invisible (like his PC).

Ya, seen it a few times in the last week or so.

eircomtribunal

Originally posted by dahamsta
As Martin has highlighted, they could have started this whole process two or three years ago.

adam

[Foreword: I am writing this as somebody who has not been hurt by being kicked off NoLimits or/and being deceived by the Kickham boy as an IOFFL member.]

That does not seem to me to be a fair assessment of the recent history. ESAT acted stupid and stupid and stupid. But I will not forget that the real blame for the debacle has to be attributed to Eircom/O’Rourke/Doyle and the journos of the day who did not get that across.

I am glad to see the new strategy and approach of EsatBt with this one page advertising and I am cautiously hopeful that the tide is turning.

But now is also the time to be extremely watchful and to exert maximum pressure:
The Irish flatrate dialup offer should not be more expensive than that of the UK.
Flatrate dialup is important as a transitional step to broadband connectivity,
but equally important is an immediate start of meaningful ADSL broadband rollout.
If we don’t want to end up in an unsavoury Eircom/EsatBt duopoly situation (with EsatBt the only player able to afford Local Loop Unbundling) the ODTR has to enforce a fair wholesale ADSL price urgently. One that other competitors can realistically make use of. Eircom’s price should never have been accepted by the ODTR. It is out of line with that of all other countries and would not withstand independent auditing as being cost orientated as of cost of an efficient operator, as is the legal requirement.
Eircom will fight tooth and nail to keep the ADSL wholesale artificially high, because if meaningfully priced ADSL is on offer, Eircom’s profits of its overpriced leased lines business would finally vanish. And high time for that to happen..
Additional forms of xDSL need to be introduced, which are better suited to the line situation in Ireland, suited to longer distances, albeit at lower speed.
Eircom’s line maintenance is unacceptable. “Your line will be restored some time next week, hopefully.”
Eircom’s ADSL line testing is unacceptable. It seems to be geared towards their objective to stall the ADSL roll out as long as possible, because even at an overpriced 107 euros per month (+ridiculous set up and cap) it will eat into their obscene fixed line profiteering.


Now here comes my little piece of personal brag and nostalgia:

When I saw EsatBt’s You're Fed Up one page ad, in all modesty my thoughts went out to them: If you had taken up my advice, contained in the fax I’d sent to you in May of 2001, at that time rather than now, you would not only have saved your company a couple of millions of losses and your jobs, but you could have trounced Eircom’s DoS attack on all of us.

Here’s that fax of 2/5/2001

You are stupid

I am an IOL NOLimits user who got your kick out letter.
I am furious.
It is obvious that you are not keeping with the spirit of the service-
Whatever the legal position may be.
You will get the stick for your action by the public and the press. But no doubt you will be able to ride it out and limit the damage.

But-think differently
You have created a lot of anger in a lot of people. Use that anger!
Turn its energy towards its real problem: That Eircom, the ODTR and the government are not complying with the laws and standards of the rest of Europe and basically ripping off the people.

My suggestion:
In a one page add in the Irish Times:
-Offer a genuine apology to the recipients of your letter (I’m sure you agree this letter has got its wording and emphasis totally wrong) and explain that you have to close down your NoLimits service and why.
-Show the public the pricing for flatrate internet access in other European countries.
-Ridicule Eircoms so-called high-speed package by comparing its costs and performance with ISDN costs in other countries.
-Declare that you will offer unrestricted flatrate internet access – and thereby make the internet finally happen in Ireland – for say £ 16.99 a month, if and when the government is ready to wake up…
-Ask the government to tell the public when that will happen.


Regards Customer No B3BY3I1XV


Peter