Car Free Day....Load of Crap

The Saint · 23-09-2002 11:39am #1

Did anyone go into Dublin city centre expecting to have no cars on the street? Well I did and much to my surprise the town was over run with cars. Did someone foget something? I went into St Stephens Green expecting to fing the RTS protest at around 3.30 and found the place to be empty and only found out that it moved up to Baggot st when I got home and turned on the news. Anyway thats not why I'm complaining (even though I missed the fun) but why were the streets not closed? Leaving it up to the public to leave their cars at home is a losing battle even if you put on free busses (which I have to say did not seem to be running as regularly as they normally do). I think that the streets should have been blocked to traffic to give a feeling of what it would be like without traffic. I have to say. all in all, very disappointing.

colinsky · 23-09-2002 11:44am

it wasn't a completely load of crap. i did pick up a free balloon...

*evil grin*

i don't know what they were thinking, closing about three blocks and claiming it was a big deal. actually...i do know what they are thinking. they were thinking "allowing fans to get to a football game is much more important that a car free day".

Jak · 23-09-2002 12:13pm

Clever as well to the tie the day in with a GAA All Ireland final.

'Reclaim the Streets' as well as 'Euro Car free day' are all rather pointless at this juncture in my opinion. The solution lies in a more patient subtle approach.

Even if people were to react to the pleasant ambience of a car free sunday - it will have close to zero effect during bottleneck peaks midweek when the change is really required.

The funding put forward by the EU com for 'Euro car free day' is a very poor allocation of resources in my eyes.

JAK.

Bard · 23-09-2002 12:22pm

Originally posted by The Saint
I think that the streets should have been blocked to traffic to give a feeling of what it would be like without traffic.

No offence intended, but I think that opinion is completely and utterly idiotic.

I *did* drive into Dublin city yesterday. I had no idea it was "Euro No Car Day" or whatever but had I know it was, I'd *STILL* have driven into town, and had the streets been blocked off for some pathetic outmoded minority protest, I'd have been well p*ssed off, as I'm sure many shops, car parks and tourist attractions (which would be losing business because of it) would be - not to mention the tens of thousands of GAA fans.

The Saint · 23-09-2002 12:35pm

Granted the government didnt advertise the fact that there was going to be a car free day but for you (Bard) to want to drive even if it was car free day just shows how much disregard you hold for the vast majority of pedestrians who have to suffer people driving around causing congestion especially when nearly every car has only one person in it.

I'd have been well p*ssed off, as I'm sure many shops, car parks and tourist attractions.

As a matter of fact most places that pedestrianise do up to 20% increase in sales and more tourists so just because you drive means you run the roads and everyone must suffer. It just shows how lazy people with cars can be and how they don't care much for anyone else on the roads.

Please can you name any good reasons for not pedestrianising besides having to get off your lazy ass?

Jak · 23-09-2002 12:48pm

Granted the government didnt advertise the fact that there was going to be a car free day but for you (Bard) to want to drive even if it was car free day just shows how much disregard you hold for the vast majority of pedestrians who have to suffer people driving around causing congestion especially when nearly every car has only one person in it.

It was an RTS initiative. There was no government backing of the action. Euro car free day is a separate event.

* edit: And from what I have read since checking up on it, there was provision for some sectioning off so as too fall in line with both ECF day and RTS ambitions, but they weren't happy and so did their own thing. In any case I remember when last years ECF day failed, many of the traffic office deemed it something of a waste of time.

All these things are optional as there are many people with qualified needs for driving.

As a matter of fact most places that pedestrianise do up to 20% increase in sales and more tourists so just because you drive means you run the roads and everyone must suffer.

Do you have an accountable source for this statistic? If so I would be genuinely interested in it.

Pedestrianisation can indeed lead to increases in sales in certain locales - though in my research I have never seen a figure of 20%. In a situation where there is a poor public transport infrastructure however (e.g. Dublin) - such a move, along with say road pricing or parking pricing policies would likely result in a drop in consumer traffic and thereby trade.

Please can you name any good reasons for not pedestrianising besides having to get off your lazy ass?

It is too soon.

Bard · 23-09-2002 12:59pm

Originally posted by The Saint

Please can you name any good reasons for not pedestrianising besides having to get off your lazy ass?

I can name three.

I live 16 miles from the city so transport is necessary.

Trains are unreliable and I rarely get to sit down in them so the odd time I have the car is quite a relief, to be honest. Plus, the places I have to go occasionally in Dublin are either not serviced at all or are very badly serviced by public transport.

Yesterday in particular, I had quite a bit to buy in town and had no intention of traipsing around on foot carrying it all when I could just pop back to the car occasionally and stow it. As well, it would have been a pain in the ass to carry it all home on a train or bus.

--

As Jak said, this was an *optional* protest. The option I would choose would be to opt out and to use the car. That is my perogative - and so it should be! It should be completely up to each individual - having a "No car day" FORCED on people would be just plain wrong.

seamus · 23-09-2002 1:00pm

Originally posted by The Saint
Please can you name any good reasons for not pedestrianising besides having to get off your lazy ass?

There are plenty of reasons for not pedestrianising atm, ie ****e bus services, but I agree that pedestrianising is a good idea in a limited capacity.

How far would you pedestrianise? 200m radius from trinity? 500m? 1km? Regardless of increase in shop business, too much pedestrianising can also decrease it. People like their cars. They don't want to have to walk miles to get to/from their cars, and even more so when they're planning on doing quite a bit of shopping. They also will not travel on buses when they have a lot of shopping planned. So what happens when you pedestrianise too much? People go shopping in suburban shopping centres, where they can park their car close, and make substantial purchases, safe in the knowledge that they haven't far to go with it. Or indeed that they can buy stuff, put it in the car, and go back in. Then inner-city shops only make sales to people just casually browsing, buying CD's or a small article of clothing, and so have to relocate to make profits, leaving the inner-city stagnant and losing shops.

Pedestrianisation is good, but in small doses. Selected streets with lots of shops are the best ones to do it with, eg Grafton st, Henry St, and Capel St would be a good one. Pedestrianising Streets such as Dame street though, could cut off shops in the Temple Bar area, or indeed, some shops on Dame St.

The Saint · 23-09-2002 1:10pm

Obviously the public transport system would need a serious overhaul. If there is a decent transport system I dont see why large scale pedestrianisation.

Heres that source you were looking for Jak

http://www.t-e.nu/Publications/2002Pubs/NoPictures+intro.pdf

Its on page 6. Theres some other good reading on it too.

Jak · 23-09-2002 1:27pm

Ta for that link. Some interesting if slightly biased views in there.

I am aware of quite a few academics who would strongly dispute some of the 'Myths' exploded there. I'll finish reading it first though.

I think we all agree that some localised pedestrianisation of the city could be a very good thing indeed. However Dublin is not ready - and I am convinced that the 20% increase in trade experienced in Grenoble in the 80's would not be replicated at this stage were we to follow suit.

Dublin is not ready yet - but there is considerable work under way to get us there. In the short term, I feel RTS action days do little more than antagonise motorists into an opposing camp.

JAK.

Typedef · 23-09-2002 4:24pm

I would propose pedestrianising the City Centre (Dublin that is) from the Custom House to Connolly Station and from Stephen's Green to the Garden of Rememberance and enacting a lightweight tram system in the resultant square (run for profit of course, just like Dublin Bus).

Essentially I think this sort of move would be really great for tourism and would reduce the clogging that goes on in and around the City Centre. I grew up near MountJoy Square so I have a vested interest in seeing Inner City regeneration and one of the ways that will happen is by pedestrianising it.
The roads are so badly maintained in the City Centre as it is and the traffic so heavy that I believe at this stage the only logical choice is to divert all traffic bar traffic that has commerical business in the City Centre away from it and only allow that traffic in a certain times of the day as is the case on Mary's Street and Grafton Street.

The government did nothing to promote Car Free Day, but then again who would expect a right off centre government to do squat for environmental issues anyway?

Aside. No baiting or insulting each other here, I mean it. I don't want to have to be nasty, but I will if I have to.... you catch my drift.
"Cut him bad........"

Jak · 23-09-2002 4:38pm

The government did nothing to promote Car Free Day

Actually that is incorrect. They did run a promotion scheme leading up to it - there was a reasonable amount of media coverage. Flyers were passed out. Businesses contacted. Cycling events and so on.

People just did not react very well to it.

The Saint · 23-09-2002 4:51pm

I didnt hear anything about it before I saw it on this site. It was a nationwide event so it really should have been advertised on the TV and radio or even posters. I think it was a very weak effort by all parties envolved. Its sad when the reclaim the streets protesters are the only ones visually involved.

colinsky · 24-09-2002 9:42am

just to play devil's lawyer...

cars on the streets are actually good for pedestrians. for the most part, they stop at red traffic lights and let you cross. if all the traffic were bicycles, you'd never have an opportunity to cross the street at all!

(surprising how I seem to remember bicycles having breaks)

mayhem# · 24-09-2002 11:12am

Originally posted by The Saint
but why were the streets not closed? Leaving it up to the public to leave their cars at home is a losing battle even if you put on free busses (which I have to say did not seem to be running as regularly as they normally do). I think that the streets should have been blocked to traffic to give a feeling of what it would be like without traffic.

Excuse me?!
Who died and made you god?
So you do not think that the public opinion matters?
Just because a bunch of beansprout munching eejits thinks that cars should be banned doesn't mean that they have the right to enforce their opinion on other people!
I think that people like you should be banned from public streets, does that mean that I can just go around and block the streets?!

Typedef · 24-09-2002 11:24am

People like him?

Care to quantify that before I delete said abuse?

mayhem# · 24-09-2002 11:30am

You can delete it all you want if criticism is not allowed..
If you read my whole post instead of quoting out of context you would have noticed that with "people like you" I was referring to people who are of the opinion that "the public" should not be trusted with decisions like this and they therefore have the god-given right to make these decision for "the public"....

Typedef · 24-09-2002 11:47am

Right o. Guys and Dolls.

If you read my whole post instead of quoting out of context

Mayhem# couple of points, I did read your post, that is why I mentioned it.

Mod or not this is out of order.

Just because a bunch of beansprout munching eejits
I think that people like you should be banned from public streets

Originally posted my me
Aside. No baiting or insulting each other here, I mean it. I don't want to have to be nasty, but I will if I have to.... you catch my drift.
"Cut him bad........"

Evil Typedef to the rescue.
Thread locked.

Car Free Day....Load of Crap

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