Satellite Broadband

De Rebel

There was a posting here recently about a Satellite Broadband service, not Leap - it was an expensive enough service - anyone remember anything about it?

Thanks

Defenistrator

educom/orbitlink by any chance?

visit them at www.orbitlink.ie

D.

just a s matter of fact, they have there services as single user and multi user. but you could buy the cheapest single user service and share it any way. it does work!

spongebob

VSAT

One and 2 way systems, one way is sat in phone out

M

De Rebel

Got it Digiweb

Thanks guys

mayhem#

Originally posted by Defenistrator

just as matter of fact, they have there services as single user and multi user. but you could buy the cheapest single user service and share it any way. it does work!

You're welcome....

Tazmo

I looked at Digiweb and they do appear to be expensive.
Since then have now considered Netsystem who appear to be much more reasonable.
Has anyone got this service and using it successfully??
Being out in rural Wicklow it seems broadband from space is my only option, but it is how to do it for reasonable money.

Urban Weigl

The problem with Netsystem is that it's still one-way only, and as such you'll still be paying between 1 and 5 cents a minute to Eircon -- and that can add up quickly!

Tazmo

Originally posted by Urban Weigl
The problem with Netsystem is that it's still one-way only, and as such you'll still be paying between 1 and 5 cents a minute to Eircon -- and that can add up quickly!

I was thinking of combining it with my UTVip hence €30 to UTV and €36 to Netsystem gives me offpeak higher speed connection for €66 pm. That was the theory anyway.

mfield

Originally posted by Tazmo

I was thinking of combining it with my UTVip hence €30 to UTV and €36 to Netsystem gives me offpeak higher speed connection for €66 pm. That was the theory anyway.

I was thinkin of doin the same myself, I wonder if it's worth it though?

mfield.

JabbaTheHut

Hmmmmm.netsystem,you say.I've been using it for the last two months,and they seem to be getting into a bit of bother lately speed wise.It's faster than 56k alright,but over the last couple of weeks downloads have been getting slower for me.
I've signed up for UTV but still didn't get the email(more than 11 working days now),and I'll see how things work out with those services combined.
See http://www.netsystemusers.com/ for the best info on Netsystem.It has a forum too,that'll keep you updated,and maybe help make up your mind.

Dustaz

Originally posted by De Rebel
There was a posting here recently about a Satellite Broadband service, not Leap

Leap is wireless, not satellite.

BoneCollector

Hmmmmm.netsystem,you say.I've been using it for the last two months,and they seem to be getting into a bit of bother lately speed wise.It's faster than 56k alright,but over the last couple of weeks downloads have been getting slower for me.

Well... i get upto 1Mb no problems there

Rags

Ya but the 1mbit isnt til after like 1am or somein. Before then its a lot slower and last week its been terrible. When I say terrible I mean around 120k.

DonegalMan

Jabba or BoneCollector

I'm seriously considering satellite as I see no hope of ASDL for a long time where I live in Donegal

NetSystem looks attractive combined with SNL which I'm currently on, though I am thinking about moving to UTVInternet if they imnplement the 2 ISDN channels package.

Had a quick look at the NetSystem site but there are a couple of things I can't fully understand; as their enquiry line is closed for the weekend maybe you guys can enlighten me:

1) Can you use the same dish for TV and Internet or do you need a separate dish?

2) If you work off one dish, does the broadband interfere in any way with the TV (I'm thinking about the fact that you can only watch one TV channel on Sky - does this mean if you have the broadband on, you can't watch Sky TV?)

3) You have to be pointed at Astra1G - I currently have Sky, how do I know if this is the satellite I am currently pointed at?

TIA

Martin Harran

Tazmo

Martin
You will find all the answers to those questions on the forums at Netsystem Users
I have spent most of today on there reading thro the various posts and trying to suss out what I need.
I think it will be the way to go for me.

sceptre

Originally posted by DonegalMan
1) Can you use the same dish for TV and Internet or do you need a separate dish?

You could watch TV and surf at the same time with the dish if you had a dual input LNB attached.

But:

All the Net satellite offerings (at least all the ones I've seen) are from satellites at 19.2E. The Sky Astras are at 28.2E. So you'd need either two dishes or have a motorised dish. If you had only one dish (with the requisite equipment) when using the Internet you'd be limited to TV transmissions coming in from 19.2E (which won't include any of the channels you get on Sky)

So two dishes needed unless you want your family to shoot you.

3) You have to be pointed at Astra1G - I currently have Sky, how do I know if this is the satellite I am currently pointed at?

Astra 1G is at 19.2E. You're definitely not pointing anywhere near this with your Sky dish.

DonegalMan

Thx Sceptre, even though you gave me the answers I was hoping NOT to get

Have to dig into this a bit more, AFAIR a sky mini-dish installation is only around 100-150 Euro so rough estimate of overall cost:

Installation cost using PCI modem:

Sky Mini-Dish 150
Install ISDN, not sure think about 130
ISDN modem estimate 120

Total installation cost about 400 Euro



Running Cost Per Month:

NetSystem Pro 42
UTVInternet(2 isdn channels) 60
ISDN Rental Charge less current line 18

= 120 Euro per month for unlimited off peak + call costs during peak (with 25% reduction from UTVInternet).

Not cheap but worth thinking about

Martin

bkehoe

I'd pay the 120 (ex vat) to digiweb instead of 120 (inc vat) for 150hrs per month of off peak access. BTW, I was never happy with the performance of netsystem when i used it before i got 2 way sat.

Brendan.

Originally posted by DonegalMan
Thx Sceptre, even though you gave me the answers I was hoping NOT to get

Have to dig into this a bit more, AFAIR a sky mini-dish installation is only around 100-150 Euro so rough estimate of overall cost:

Installation cost using PCI modem:

Sky Mini-Dish 150
Install ISDN, not sure think about 130
ISDN modem estimate 120

Total installation cost about 400 Euro



Running Cost Per Month:

NetSystem Pro 42
UTVInternet(2 isdn channels) 60
ISDN Rental Charge less current line 18

= 120 Euro per month for unlimited off peak + call costs during peak (with 25% reduction from UTVInternet).

Not cheap but worth thinking about

Martin

DonegalMan

Originally posted by bkehoe
I'd pay the 120 (ex vat) to digiweb instead of 120 (inc vat) for 150hrs per month of off peak access. BTW, I was never happy with the performance of netsystem when i used it before i got 2 way sat.

The €1500 equipment charge is bit steep for a home system where 90%+ of my access is off peak, that's why netsystem seems attractive.

I am, however considering digiweb for my business, as I desperately need a fixed IP address for a multi-site stock control system.

Are you using them and, if so, how do you rate them?

Martin

P.S. Going back to the home system, I see all sorts of warnings that satellite is useless for gaming. Is it better or worse than 56k modem, usually connected at 48Kps?

I play a bit of RTS, mainly Age of Kings on msn.zone and find that I can only join less than half of available games, when I do join my ping is usually about 300-600. What could I expect with a) two way satellite b) one way satellite plus 128K ISSDN ?

bkehoe

Hi,
I'm not using Digiweb; I'm using Aramiska. If you think digiweb is expensive, you dont want to see aramiskas pricing! Digiweb is the cheapest 2 way satellite available in Ireland. The Digiweb system is the same as BT use for their 2 way satellite across the UK and aparrantly works quite well.
Satellite, both 1 and 2 way is worse than modem for gaming. Lowest pings i get on aramiska are around 600ms to EU servers....something the same when i was on netsystem. The advantage with 1 way is that you can disconnect the satellite connection when you're going to play games and get the low pings offered by modem/isdn. I've also found that one way satellite systems seem to need a few threads going to get near the advertised speed, as single thread performance, e.g. a normal download in internet explorer are poorish. I dont have problems like this on Aramiska at all. Also, web browsing is a lot faster than netsystem on Aramiska (cannot be sure about digiweb though as they use a different system), and protocols like SSH/Telnet are more responsive.



Brendan.

DonegalMan

Originally posted by bkehoe
Hi,
I'm not using Digiweb; I'm using Aramiska. If you think digiweb is expensive, you dont want to see aramiskas pricing!

Checked their website and see what you mean

Why did you go with them, I assume there is something to justify the higher price?

Martin

DonegalMan

Forgot to ask....

Main use in business will be replicating SQL Server database holding stock data on multiple retail sites (10 at present, plan to double this over next 12 months).

Some of the stores in Northern Ireland have ASDL, might want them to be permanently connected to main database in Lettrekenny; most stores will dial up to Internet and transfer files to Letterkenny 2/3 times per day.

Files will be small, mostly <1mb, max 2mb.

Also email/some general surfing.

In this situation what sort of connection speed should I aim for - 256, 512 or higher ?

Martin

gurramok

AFAIR a sky mini-dish installation is only around 100-150 Euro so rough estimate of overall cost:

That installation could be done yourself. Get a 2nd-hand sky mini-dish, drill your holes on wall, mount it, calculate elevation angle from here , angle it using a compass. Get your free sat modem from netsystem.com.
It is that easy to do it yourself.

Personally i have just completed the above today using an old sky analogue dish with universal lnb, now i'm waiting for netsystem to sort out a few problems they had in last week regarding maintenance before i sign up.

On sat 19.2 E, the tv channels you get are just sky news, cnn and about 30 foreign language ones. As was said earlier, sky digital points at 28.2E, so 2 dishes are needed.

Netsystem is supposed to only beneficial for downloading, multi-threading is recommended. Web browsing the same as 56k, web sites with all the flash stuff load faster


netsystemusers.com has detailed stuff on it.

JabbaTheHut

gurramok is right.Multithreading is the way to go if you want to download anything with Netsystem.
Also,like BoneCollector says,1 mb is no problem.Surfing at that speed is WAY ahead that 56k.Only problem is you have to be on the graveyard shift to use it,as it comes into effect between 1am and 8am.Still,it's worth the 7 euros to speed up the downloading at night.But like I said,lately,I'm not imperssed with the speeds.Maybe BoneCollector has something different to me.I was getting better results before,even at nightime.

DonegalMan,you don't need ISDN to operate Netsystem.The standard 56k dialup will do fine.But if you have it already,that's no problem too.From what I know,I don't think using ISDN is no advantage to you with a sat connection

bkehoe

Hi,
The advantages with Aramiska are very low contention ratios, higher upload speeds (as well as download), and the arc box. The arc is basically a pc made by hp that runs linux and is set up to be a mail server, web caching, keep logs and make traffic usage graphs, set up incoming PPTP or IPSec connections, etc. It is also the client end of the firewall. This leads to the disadvantage of Aramiska - the firewall. You can only get PPTP and IPSec ports routed to a pc on your network. The rest are fully closed. This means that if you need to contact your network remotly that you need to set up a VPN server and 'dial' into it from the remote pc. This makes it very secure, though it could be a problem for some people. Though with Netsystem, for example, you dont get a public ip address for your pc at all and you cant connect to it when netsystem is connected, other than through the modem/isdn.

Martin, is the place you're considering satellite for the main office to which all the remote pcs would be connecting to?

Brendan.

DonegalMan

Originally posted by bkehoe
Martin, is the place you're considering satellite for the main office to which all the remote pcs would be connecting to?

Brendan.

Basically, yes.

There are couple of other options though, e.g have a replica of my database on on a server in the North with ADSL connection with remote PC's linking to it and have only this one machine linking directly to main office in Letterkenny; could maybe use thin client solution e.g. Terminal Services which is now included with W2000 Server, to manage server in North from Letterkenny.

Martin

DonegalMan

This discussion between Brendan and me is getting very specific.

If you think it is of general interest, I'm happy to continue it here; if you think it would be better taken elsewhere, that's no problem either

Martin Harran

mayhem#

Keep it going!
I for one find it interesting....

DonegalMan

Originally posted by mayhem#
Keep it going!
I for one find it interesting....

I'm hoping other people do too.

Although €1000+ installation and €100+ per month puts satellite out of reach of most home users (plus latency problems for gamers) I am becoming more and more convinced that it is a potential solution for small to medium businesses who have no other chance of getting broadband in the foreseeable future.


I am very interested in hearing other people's experiences of it.

Martin

spongebob

The Gilat sat, rebadged as Tiscali and Digiweb is actually an Israeli Military Comunications Sat with spare bandwidth.

You may take it as given that every packet thru the uplink is duplicated to Mossad in case it may be of 'Interest'.

No large US multinational will do business with you if they find out you are using the Gilat sat for 'their' data. You would also be in breach of contract with the Irish government....

See Here to find out where all these services are appearing from all of a sudden......

DonegalMan

Originally posted by Muck
The Gilat sat, rebadged as Tiscali and Digiweb is actually an Israeli Military Comunications Sat with spare bandwidth.

You may take it as given that every packet thru the uplink is duplicated to Mossad in case it may be of 'Interest'.

Daily sales of wooden floors in Ireland should be really interesting to them

Martin

mayhem#

Originally posted by DonegalMan


I am very interested in hearing other people's experiences of it.

Martin

Well I've had the Educom/Orbitlink service since February now and haven't looked back. While it isn't the ultimate in broadband it is the best available in rural locations and I don't see that status changing anytime soon. Also the price is a great advantage, I was paying nearly €1000 p/m to Eircom before, now all I pay is €250 p/m and I have 24/7 FAST Internet. No contast to any other service available to me!
There is still that can be tweaked and improved on the service (upload speed!) but that will come with time and I must admit that a there have been a lot of improvements since I hooked up.
I am currently in the process of setting up a web based forum to discuss satellite and wireless related issues for European users as most other forums are very much US aimed, more to come soon.
Anyway, if you have any question post 'm here or email Brendan or meself....

Mayhem#.

I also resell the service but not to a level where I am biased (honest!).

DonegalMan

I've looked at Digiweb and OrbitLink, price comparisons as far as I can make them out are:

Installation
Orbitlink
Installation free but 'security deposit' of €899
Static Ip Address €125 (doesn't say if this is once off or annual)
Radio Licence €50

Total Outlay: €1074

DigiWeb
Installation Cost €1495
Includes IP address and Radio Licence


Monthly Charges
Orbitlink

400/128 Service: €169
640/128 Service: €205

DigiWeb
512/128 Service: €119 (€109 if you pay 12 months in advance)


If I'm figuring this right, Digiweb costs €421 more in initial outlay but works out at €500/€620 savings per year against 400/128 service and €1032/€1152 savings against the 640/128 service; also with Digiweb you own the equipment though I don't know how much of the Orbitlink security deposit is repayable if you cancel the service.

So, as a reseller, 'sell' me on the idea of Orbitlink instead of Digiweb

Martin

P.S. Keep me informed about new forum as I am 90% certain that I am gonna get into satellite, probably place my order this week, really just a question of deciding which company.

bkehoe

Originally posted by Muck
The Gilat sat, rebadged as Tiscali and Digiweb is actually an Israeli Military Comunications Sat with spare bandwidth.

You may take it as given that every packet thru the uplink is duplicated to Mossad in case it may be of 'Interest'.

No large US multinational will do business with you if they find out you are using the Gilat sat for 'their' data. You would also be in breach of contract with the Irish government....

See Here to find out where all these services are appearing from all of a sudden......

They use Eurobird, the same sat that gives us some of our Sky Digital channels, which I thought was a fairly new satellite. Hah, maybe you could expand on the rest of your stuff? Also, FYI, all the Gilat traffic goes through Germany, not Israel. And whats with the no business with US companies? One of the biggest US satellite ISPs, Starband, uses Gilat.

Martin, how far are you from the nearest ADSL enabled office. If its not too far, you could set up a wireless connection to it, and share the ADSL to the main office. Let us know the distance first.

Back to satellite, its really a matter of preference and cost between orbitlink and digiweb now imho. A good Gilat, and Aramiska (just me and 1 other guy in the Aramiska one) is
http://satellite.balita.org/ According to some recent posts, Gilat/BT are starting to limit bandwidth on the high usage users.

Brendan.

mayhem#

Martin,

What it really should boil down to two issues; price and level of support & expertise.
In your case where it is going to be used in a business enviroment, the latter should be most important.
Digiweb is mainly a web design and hosting company and might not necesarrily have the technical expertise to provide you with adequate support. Of course they can always refer back to Gilat but that all takes time and might not always produce the desired results. Companies like Educom and even more Aramiska have been either providing satellite broadband or Networking services for quite some time and will have a much better understanding of what's involved. They will be able to provide you with a more direct and efficient level of support. There is an awful lot of people jumping on the wireless Internet bandwagon just for the fast buck and without any real experience or knowledge. Time will tell.

just my 2 cents....

mayhem#

Originally posted by bkehoe
One of the biggest US satellite ISPs, Starband, uses Gilat.

And we all know what a success Starband is....
;-)

DonegalMan

Originally posted by bkehoe


Martin, how far are you from the nearest ADSL enabled office. .

About 20 miles

Martin

DonegalMan

Originally posted by mayhem#
Martin,

What it really should boil down to two issues; price and level of support & expertise....There is an awful lot of people jumping on the wireless Internet bandwagon just for the fast buck and without any real experience or knowledge. Time will tell.

just my 2 cents....

This is one of the factors that is swinging me towards DigiWeb; with the various shake-outs that have occurred in the industry in recent years, I like the idea of owning the equipment so that if Digiweb disappeared it should be relatively easy to switch to another provider, rather than the complications that could arise with leased equipment.

Martin

Occidental

Just to throw another one into the ring www.mediasat.ie are a Cork based company that have started off recently. Have had some pricing from them and appears to be in the Aramiska/Educom range. No idea of set up or satellite used.

Same as Mayhem#, have been using Educom for the last year and is a vast improvement over 128k ISDN and costs a lot less. Very good for large files and okay for general browsing. They've had a few teething problems, mainly with Tiscali in Germany, but seems to have sorted itself out over the last few months. From what Brendan has said, I get the impression that Aramiska and Educom are fairly similar in quality.

DonegalMan

Originally posted by Occidental
... www.mediasat.ie ....Have had some pricing from them and appears to be in the Aramiska/Educom range.

€240 per month for Hardware and €272 per month for software plus 1Gb cap - €0.36 per mb above this.

I think that mediasat and aramiska are both over-spec'd and overpriced for what I need, certainly at this stage.

Martin

spongebob

Gilat and BT are introducing a Cap but not calling it that, of course.

It could mean the sat is getting a bit too busy. I would expect the same restrictions to apply to other Gilat resellers as well.

It seems to be a bit like the SNL debacle all over again.

M

sceptre

Moving to Nets/Comms as per Martin's suggestion (it's certainly turning into one of those threads that the hard-core Nets/Comms types would be more interested in, as well as more help in)