Human Experimentation sci-fiction or sci-Fact?

BJJ

London -- Despite widespread revulsion and moves to outlaw the practice, American and Italian scientists announced Friday they will press ahead with plans to clone human beings, something they hope to accomplish within two years.

British pro-lifers reacted with sorrow to the development, linking it to their own government's recent decision to legalize embryonic cloning for therapeutic research "in blatant contravention of international consensus."

Speaking at a press conference alongside a cloning symposium in Rome, Prof. Panayiotis Zavos of Lexington, Kentucky and Italian fertility specialist Severino Antinori said they wanted to help infertile couples have children by cloning babies. Ten such couples had already expressed a willingness to participate in the experiment, which will possibly take place in an unidentified Mediterranean country, they said. Antinori said he was calling on "all of us in the scientific community to be prudent and calm."

"Cloning creates ordinary children," he argued. "They will be unique individuals, not photocopies of individuals. Cloning may be considered as the last frontier to overcome male sterility and give the possibility to infertile males to pass on their genetic pattern." Zavos, professor of reproductive physiology at the University of Kentucky, said their plans had drawn a very positive response from couples keen to have children. "They come to us and they don't call you names, they don't cuss you, they don't say you're unethical," he said. "They said: 'Help me.' "

In 1996, the world's first mammal, Dolly the sheep, was successfully cloned. The two scientists plans to use similar procedure - injecting genetic material from the male into an egg whose DNA has been removed, which will then be implanted in the woman's womb and be carried to term.

The child will be a genetic copy of his father, and share some physical characteristics. "Dolly is here and we are next," Zavos said
http://www.euthanasia.com/italian.html


http://www.aracnet.com/~pdxavets/crossroa.htm
The stories of 250,000 Americans experimented on by Atomic radiataion. The story of the Crossroads tests as once secret documents reveal, and history has recorded, is that, the U.S. Navy stationed itself in close proximity for the sudden release of the new atomic genie. As the brightest light the world had ever seen and the great mushrooms smoke and blast faded away, the atomic genie had changed form yet again. This time the American Navy faced a new enemy it could not see, it could not destroy, and would not go away. The Navy brass were learning the lessons of a terrible new danger very different from any they had faced before.
From the August 19, 1946 Life magazine. But what they had learned was summed up last week in the heartfelt comment of Admiral William H. P. Blandy; " It's a poison weapon

Alien Clones
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3731391.htm
A fringe religious movement's South Korea-based scientific team Wednesday said they had implanted a cloned human embryo in a woman, the latest in a string of similar, unconfirmed experiments to emerge from the underground field of human cloning.

The Raelian Movement's chief scientist refused to confirm details of the team's report but boasted that they would soon make an announcement that numerous scientists and governments around the world have been dreading.

``The only thing I can tell you is that, yes, we have done implantations and the next announcement will be the birth of a baby,'' said Dr. Brigitte Boisselier, managing director of Clonaid, the scientific wing of the Swiss-based Raelian Movement, which believes humans are clones of God-like aliens destined to revisit Earth.


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Dr. Rascher is probably most known for his experimentation at Dachau, concerning human resistance at high altitudes. He also conducted research in the fields of body temperature, membrane inflammation, and had some ties to the operation of the gas chambers. In addition to these experiments, Rascher also conducted tests on Priests, and worked with incoming transports. Dr. Rascher conducted many different types of experiments during his tenure at Dachau.In addition to his experimentation, Dr. Rascher also had a hand in the transports coming into Dachau. As can be seen in his letter to the Reichsfuehrer, Rascher also had a hand in developing the gas chamber into it's final form. It appears that Rascher was one of the men who first began experimenting with different types of gasses, ultimately helping the Nazi's to arrive at the Zyklon-B which the used permanently.In one of the more obscure events at Dachau, Rascher was reported to have inspected those subjects who would not survive medical experimentation. It is reported that he would grab them by the thighs, and if he said "good", it meant that after death, the subject was to have his skin stripped from his body.
Wartime Experimentation - High Altitude

Dr. Rascher's high altitude experiments were directly ordered by the heads of the Nazi party. Unlike some of the other experiments, this research was not conducted based on personal interest. Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler called for these experiments, and Rascher was approved for the experiment by leaders of the Reich. The results were to be used to judge the effects of high altitudes on Luftwaffe pilots. Rascher used a sealed chamber to conduct these experiments. He would then lower pressure and oxygen levels, to simulate rise in altitude. All subjects died. Rascher also had some subjects inhale pure oxygen preceding the experiment, to discover whether or not this would increase sustainable altitude. As most doctors did, Rascher reported his findings to the Reichsfuehrer. He also conducted detailed autopsies in which he discovered that large amounts of air(oxygen) were in the patient's blood arteries and veins at the time of death. A pictorial documentation of one such experiment can be seen here.
Wartime Experimentation - Freezing

Dr. Rascher's body temperature experiments were, like his altitude experiments, conducted to gain results to be used by the Luftwaffe. The experiments, called for by the authorities in the party, were to simulate the effects on Luftwaffe pilots who were forced to parachute from their planes into the seas.Rascher used a variety of combinations in his experiments. Subjects were dressed in either winter or summer Luftwaffe uniform. Next, they were placed in tubs of water with temperatures ranging from 2.5-12 degrees centigrade. Some subjects were placed under narcosis while others were not. The final choice in these experiments was either to submerge the brainstem of the subject or to leave it above water. Rascher reported to his superiors on the results. He reported that among those patients whose brainstems were submerged in water, all died. Though not as prominent as the cooling experiments, attempts were also made to to test resuscitation methods on freezing subjects. Again, Rascher reported to his superiors, namely Brandt, on these issues and tests. The "warming tests" were much less successful than the cooling tests, as most subjects died.

BJJ

http://members.aol.com/poloboy02/rascher.htm

Brian Bennette

Fact

Dustaz

well this is highly interesting.

We should have a science board! oh wait....

Xterminator

BJJ, i've read your pasted information, but are you just posting it as information, or do you infact plan to offer any opinions in it?

Do you feel that putting a story ofthe genetic cloning of humans next to the details of the nazi experiments on live subjects make cloning as morally reprehnsible of taking peoples lives?.

If so, do you have any thing to back that up?

Why would having cloned people be a bad thing. Would it have any advantages? Do the advantages outway the disadvantages?

A reasoned debate would be welcome, but scaremongering tactics are not.

P.S.
Some current and future medical treatments will be derived from knowledge gleaned from cloning.
Will you be refusing life saving treatments, if cloning is partly responsible for its provision should the occasion arise?
Would you refuse such life saving treatments to critically ill patients based on your moral judgements, even if they have a different viewpoint?

X

Kim Tae-Woo

Yes what is your thoughts opinion
What do you think of those Clones?

Caesar_Bojangle

What do you think of those Clones?

Yoda will save us

scipio_major

Hmm.

Like Xterminator, I really don't see the connection between the experiments in concentration camps and modern research into cloning. The fundental difference is one of choice, if people wish to create a genetic clone of themselves and they don't tamper with the clone's code in anyway to subvert it's humanity well that's fine (yes I am assuming that the clone is being created to join a family, not to be put in a lab or as part of some kind of plot to over throw the government).

I happen to believe that because you share identical genes doesn't mean you are the same person. People's personalities are based almost entirely on their experiences in life. Not on their genes and it's personality that matters.

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Scipio_major