Child murder couple guilty?

Dustaz

Sorry to start another topic, but its on a slightly different angle to the existing thread.

Is it just me or have the police and press (no suprise there) been completely irresponsible in their treatment of the couple arrested for the murder of the 2 kids in the UK.

To date, i have seen no evidence to indicate thier guilt in the matter. Clearly, the police must have some evidence if they are charging them, but the police are not above failibility.

If it were to turn out that the couple were innocent, their lives would be completly ruined.

I find it VERY unsettling how cavalier the police were in naming them when they came forward originally and how the press have them hung already with no evidence whatsoever. In the long run, it will probably cause major problems in the trial.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Dustaz
I find it VERY unsettling how cavalier the police were in naming them when they came forward originally and how the press have them hung already with no evidence whatsoever. In the long run, it will probably cause major problems in the trial.

As far as I know, the police did not name the suspects. It's just that when they were taken in for questioning, Soham is such a small town that everyone knew who they were anyway.

Hairy Homer

I actually feel sorry for Ms Carr. Even if it is found that her other half did the deed, my understanding at the moment is that she wasn't even around on the weekend when the girls were abducted.

The worst she did was try and cover up for her man. It could even be the case that she genuinely believed he was innocent and was being unfairly pressurised.

Yet she had to run the gauntlet of hate-spewing self-righteous vigilantes calling for her to be hung. So far as I know, perverting the course of justice has not been a capital offence since Cromwell's time.

I do so hate agreeing with the Daily Telegraph, much less Boris Johnson, but he had a good point today when he spoke about the 'invincible feeling of moral superiority which is the special gift of suspected paedophile killers to each and every other member of the human race.'

He went on to make the point that if there were a law allowing people to know the names and addresses of convicted paedophiles in their area, (as some advocate) then a number of such people (not to mention the odd paediatrician) would have been attacked when the two girls went missing. Needless to say, neither Mr Huntley nor Ms Carr appear on any such register at the moment.

Her life is ruined now, regardless of what the legal outcome is. Doesn't begin to compare to the ruin inflicted on the parents' lives, but then, neither of them were in the mob outside the court.

A similar perverted sense of moral outrage led to some inadequates sending James Bolger's mother hate mail to the effect that she should have looked after her three year old son properly and not let him out of her sight. I'm sure parents of three year olds all over the world thought at the time, There but for the grace of God go I.

The Sweeper

I agree on this one, I think Martine Carr is in a whole mess that she'll never get out of. And I think it isn't right. I do believe she deserves a sentence for obstructing the investigation if she lied about what she thought her man had done, but at the moment the press have her labelled as a paedophile child-killer. There's a gaping difference between kidnapping and murdering two children, and lying when you're confused and scared and trying to protect your boyfriend.

I do believe that she should be sentenced for her part in obstructing the investigation, because I wouldn't like to think of the offence that releasing her without charge would cause to the parents and friends of the two dead children.

For instance, if her lying jeopardised the police convicting her boyfriend, she shouldn't be sentenced as though her lying was the difference between finding the girls alive and finding them dead.

Whatever she's done, I'd hate to see her getting an unrealistic sentence because the public were howling for blood.

Clintons Cat

well,whilst we are waiting for the hang em high brigade to arrive,i have to say i have some reservations.
Firstly,as i mentioned in the other thread,miscarridges of justice do occur when the police are put under the media spotlight,it happened with the birmingham six,it happened with Carl Bridgewater murder,it could happen again.The police were under tremendous preasure to get a result after the "taxi Sightings" and the delay in police following up that line of enquiry of the previous week.

I hope the Police have caught the right people,but i just hope they didnt cut any corners in their investigation.

And as for the stone throwing crowds outside peterboro Magistrates,good to know there is a steady reservoir of volunteers getting a bit of practice in should the UK deciede to implement sharia law.

BTW Tabloid Bingo>First person to spot an old polaroid picture of Maxine Car in her Undies in A newspaper wins a PrizeCake.
Extra Sprinkles if it includes an ex-lovers lurid details of Kinky Sex

Venom

The lives of these two people has been destroyed.If they are guilty then I hope they rot in prision for a very long time. And I mean both of them. The girlfriend might have just told lies to protect her boyfriend, but how you could stand behind someone who murdered 2 young children is beyond me. She could not have though doing such a thing was anything but wrong and for this she should be punished to the full extent of the law.

The old "I was only following orders" line is no excuse for evil actions.

As to wheither they are guilty is beyond me. But considering the british police's past record for druming up suspects at the last minite who are innocent due to media presure, I would not be surprised if they did it again in this case.

Even the Barry George case for the killing of Jill Dando looks very suspect. I guess time will tell on this one as well.

Shinji

It's a tough case to make judgements about until we know the full facts, but if it does transpire that all she did was try to protect her boyfriend - who knows why, maybe she was afraid of him, maybe she genuinely believed he didn't do it - then frankly, I think thats a lot less despicable than the howling masses pictured in today's papers who showed up to throw rocks and eggs at the car carrying her and scream "rot in hell" at her from the sidelines.

I utterly fail to understand the mentality of a person who makes the effort to go to a court and stand outside and scream obscenities at someone who hasn't even been found guilty. What the hell are these people on? What on earth do they think they're achieving? Do they go home and feel smug and morally superior?

I find that kind of thing a lot more disquieting than the murders themselves. The murders were tragic and shocking on a basic human level - but they were perpetrated by a "monster", and the actions of "monsters" lie outside the scope of human society, we all recognise this. This kind of thing though - this wanton disregard for justice and public, media-sanctioned outpouring of sheer hatred for someone not even yet shown to be guilty... That's scary. That's society at its nastiest, showing the side of itself that hasn't progressed in ten thousand years.

The Gopher

Ive never seen the media as one sided as they have been recently.I think theyre holding that guy under mental health laws because the bodies are in such a bad state that there is little or no DNA to be found on them.They probably fear that if they brought him to a normal court at the minute claiming circumstantial evidence he could get bail,and this would perhaps casue violent protests.

MiCr0

im amazed at the coverage - and the press too
i know its an awful thing to happen - but they police better be sure that these two actually killed the kids - as far as i saw - the police have said that no cause of death has been established.

how can it be murder if you don't know how the person died?????

mike65

Originally posted by Shinji
I
I utterly fail to understand the mentality of a person who makes the effort to go to a court and stand outside and scream obscenities at someone who hasn't even been found guilty. What the hell are these people on? What on earth do they think they're achieving? Do they go home and feel smug and morally superior?

If public executions were in vogue they'd be in the front row with knitting in thier laps and mug of tea by thier side...

I watched that prog on Barry George and it make a fairly convincing arguement that his only crime was being a little odd.

Mike.

BuffyBot

The crowds actions outside the court were unbelievable - Salem is alive and well.

The whole thing was a tragedy, but I agree that a distinction has to be made - she "Perverted the course of Justice" - there is a hell of a gap between that and child murderer.

Some of these people even dragged children along with them like it was some kind of day trip Now thats just wrong.

seamus

I agree the media has destroyed the whole ideal of democratic justice on this. I remember watching sky news on the night the two of them were questioned, and sky had pretty much condemned them. Though they didn't say it, Sky news were pretty much implying "They're now questioning two people who are probably the murderers, oh and here's some photos of them just so you know". When the fact of the matter was - no bodies had been found, and no indication given as to why the police were questioning them. In fact, no evidence has yet been put forward as to the guilt of the guy, but thats not uncommon.

What also annoyed me was just the entire bias of sky news when the two people were in custody; "They're going to have to charge them in the next 6 hours or they'll be forced to set them free" - Basically Sky news were saying "Oh No! Don't set them free! They're murderers!". I very much believe that the case could be bungled because of media pressure. The police were probably being asked by sky for comments every 5 feckin minutes.

I firmly believe in a person's right to anonimity until proven guilty. Any media company which violates this right should be taken to the cleaners (once the individual is proven innocent of course). Surely it could be classed as incitement to hatred?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

The Gopher

In yesterays Sunday People(i think it was it anyway) there was of course your typical gutter journalism-a big exclusive on her"bizarre"sex life(and TBH there was little extremely odd about it):rolleyes: I dont believe what these tits can write nowadays.A few pages down it had the story of that irish footballer who was in that club fight.His girlfriend was revealing how he was violent,he videoed them shagging and invited his pals to join in.An abused woman?Well she somehow managed to put her whines of her dignity being violated by posing semi naked for the story and continuing her work as a lap dancer.Why the **** do they pay these people for their stories?

Clintons Cat

ah the Sunday People wins the Brass eye award,i had my bets hedged on the News of the World ,but they went with an airbrushed overblown passport photo of Huntley With an invitation to look into the "eyes of a Madman".

Christ,sometimes i feel the tabloids trying to get this case thrown out of court on purpose.What the fu<k happened to the idea of responsible journalism?wait that doesnt sell copies does it.:(

Shinji

Thing is, exactly the same kind of rubbish surrounded the Barry George trial - and he still went down, despite there being practically zero evidence and a very good case for the dismissal of the trial due to media interference.

In low-profile cases, media interference gets the trials aborted; in high profile cases, it guarantees convictions because no judge has the balls to dismiss the case. It doesn't matter if these two are guilty or not - they're going to be convicted anyway. It's that simple.