Clermont Carn TG4

NorthDown

Can anyone tell me if the work on the new mast at Clermont Carn was for tv? Is the work finished? A good friendin the same town as myself and myself have been getting colour TG4 over Friday and today. It may be atmospherics (tho' usually TG4 when it does come through only last for an hour or two before signal weakens). The odd thing is none of the other signals are improved which is normally the case when atmospherics play a part. Is there anyone out there who ues Clermont Carn and has noticed an improvement in TG4 reception?Thanks

BTW getting colour TG4 on indoor amped aerial sitting on my window sill 12 inches from the ground level - very unusual - normally have to stand in a certain position in room with aerial in hand to get colour RTE1 !

lawhec

Without concrete knowledge, I'd assumed that the new mast would have been used to improve TV reception in N.I. and in accordance with the Good Friday agreement TG4 would be the first to be noticable.

The new mast is about 1/3rd higher than the old mast and can be seen on Richard Logue's TV site www.irish-tv.com

I remember a report in the Irish News I think about five years ago stating that Clermont Carn coverage should have improved with TG4 first online followed by RTE1 & Network 2, TV3 wern't broadcasting at the time. I remember last year up at college I stayed in a house in Whiteabbey which had a Group B aerial in the loft for the Carnmoney Hill relay for the TV in the main room, but we could still watch RTE1 and Network 2 with a snowy picture. TV3 and TG4 however couldn't be watched as they fell outside the aerial group. In my own room with just a bog standard set-top aerial (none of this amplified stuff!) All four channels came in at around 85-90%, teletext could be locked on anyway without major trouble.

It's supposed to be that the new mast will allow TV signals from Clermont to go as far north as Ballymena and further west as well, though this isn't a major concern as Truskmore covers this area reasonably well west of mid-Tyrone. The biggest problem is though that it won't solve areas which can't get the signal because of mountains like South & East Down and West Belfast. In Belfast NTL carry RTE1 & Network 2 (bastardised by the lack of Home & Away) on their network, but TV3 & TG4 are still missing and only RTE Radio 1 on Medium Wave is reliable in most of the city as a BBC Radio Ulster relay on Carnmoney Hill makes it near impossible to receive it on FM. In Newcastle we're talking massive poles to get any sort of reception from Clermont Carn and in the Ards pennisula they don't bother with Clermont at all - they stick up the Band III aerials and rely on Kippure!

However going back to what you were saying if it's only TG4 that has improved leave it for another few days. It's quite possible they're using the channel for testing a new aerial system on the new mast. Atmospherics would have got you better reception on the lowest frequency channel first and as TG4 is on the highest frequency (68) of the four stations I'd say it's unlikely. If your TG4 reception stays the way it is for a few weeks and the other three channels improve as well the RTE reception problems in Bangor could be a thing of the past.

NorthDown

Thanks Northern Correspondent. Text is not quite there yet (mind you from indoor aerial I'm not complaining). Where down the Ards peninsula would i see Band III aerials? (I know what I'm looking for, just never seen them there) Always see C/D verticals for clermont carn.
As you can probably work out I'm blighted by Whitehead for RTe1/ Net2 tho' still can get RTE1 on the indoor colour in a certain location in house. Did get guys out to check for me for outdoor - got good TV3/TG4 but couldn;t solve the cochannel problem - they said themselves they were surprised at how strong the signal is where I am. Didn;t get aerial put up then (regretted it ever since). But if this signal stays this way it is I'll drag someone here (problem is virtually all aerial contractors say you can't get RTE in this town and refuse to come near me, even when I tell them I can get it on indoor aerial!)
Northern Correspondent - is the new aerial for all signals or just TG4 (which is the only station mentioned in the Good Friday agreement)
I'll still be interested to hear from others taking signals from Clermont Carn about their TG4

lawhec

I don't know exactly what plans RTE have for Clermont Carn. Unlike the BBC and ITC they seem to be for some reason very secretive about giving transmitter details to the public. But I'd be 99% certain the new mast will carry all four analogue TV services eventually and the TX aerials will work for analogue & digital. In the UK any new aerial systems that have been installed at the main sites will handle both analogue & digital systems. RTE are apparently paying for the Whitehead relay TX to have channels 52 & 56 retuned by "precision offset" so that the chances of interference with RTE signals are reduced. The supposed cost is £500,000 but I find this very hard to believe for a low powered relay! Perhaps the cost includes new aerials to make the signal more directional? I don't know if this will include the FM radio aerials as they aren't part of the upgrade that is targeted for TV though quite a lot of Northern Ireland can get FM radio from Clermont Carn already - I remember listening to 2FM on 97.0 with a walkman on a beach in Portrush 2 years ago!

I've only ever been to the Ards pennisula once, way back some years ago when I didn't have the interest in aerials that I have now, but I do remember seeing some Band III aerials around Strangford Lough as these are used here locally to pick up RTE from Sligo. Maybe improvements to the Clermont signal allowed them to ditch the Band III aerials.

I won't be returning to Belfast for University next month so I won't get the chance to see the Clermont Carn signals in action again any time soon. Where I live I've never seen any Clermont Carn TV aerials further west than Ballygawley though the FM can get as far as Castlederg and Strabane. Sligo (truskmore) and Longford (Carin Hill) are the two TX's that people use here for RTE. From memory RTE1 tends to have the best signal from Clermont, Network 2 for some reason the worst.

If read about the Whithead relay problem in Bangor for some time now and I can only assume that the sea path over Belfast Lough must be helping it's cause. I just wonder if it might be possible to use a fireguard/grid aerial to block out Whitehead - these aerials are usually excellent in blocking out unwanted signals from behind the aerial (which would be the case with Whitehead when trying to receive Clermont Carn in Bangor) and even more so when used for Vertical polarised signals as the phase rejection of signals coming from a different direction from the one you want is much better than any Yagi. Another option could be to try Band III from Kippure - though I don't see any installiations for this around Greater Belfast I'm told it is possible but rather expensive (£150 plus!). Another problem with Kippure could be that the sheer distance of the signal travelling is bound to be affected by the weather. My grandparents live in the Sperrins and had an RTE aerial installed pointing at Carin Hill, over 80 miles line of sight and over terrain which is really pushing UHF signals to the limit. I noticed that watching Network 2 on Monday that the level of snow on the picture faded in and out over a matter of seconds from very noticeable to nearly none at all.

NorthDown

Yep agree with you about Clermont Carn FM - can be heard in Coleraine loud and clear (esp. Lyric / RnaG which are on frequencies well away from most signals). I can get RTE FM here. I'm lucky because 100 yards or so to my North is a nice long line of trees the height of my house to help give me some shelter from Whitehead.
I thought the work on Whitehead on retuning was done about 3 years ago - it was hush hush as i recall as Newry North and another tx were metioned at the time but not Whitehead.
TG4 still good today, a contact in Moira also agrees that TG4 signal is very good at the moment.

Why did it take so long to transport the signals to the new mast if this phenominum of strong Tg4 is a case of stronger signal and not atmospherics? They were supposed to be finished work at Clermont Carn at the end of June, though I didn;t hear of anyone getting improved reception.

SRB

Clermont can be picked up along the Ards peninsula but at the end, around Portaferry town and across in Strangford they use Kippure for Band iii VHF. A number of C/D UHF's, presumably for Kippure UHF, have also appeared in the last year or so. I was down in July and someone in the area is very fond of Televes as their orange badged band iii's are all over the town.

Paul Buckle

Hi all, got an e-mail from RTE about the new mast last week, Clermont Carn was due to start testing today on CH68 - though with the weather over the weekend it may have started early. Portaferry's "line of sight" to Clermont Carn is blocked by the Mournes so for a watchable picture Kippure is used for RTE 1 and NET 2. Kippure UHF is also perfectly watchable.
Oddly enough RTE1 from Clermont Carn is actually fine, but the other 3 are unwatchable. Will hop on the roof later in the week to check the TG4 signal from the new mast.

ahhhh....:) Co wicklow...the Garden of Ireland, providing TV services far and wide:)
Down here in North Wexford, just on the Wicklow border, we receive good, 2fm on 97 and the rest of the radio services from Clermont Carn:) - but needless to say, the Kippure/mount Leinster signals are better:D
Sky digital is taking all the fun out of building Ironmongery and dx'ng for TV and Radio:(
Unfortunately it has never been possible to receive NI tv down this side of the Wicklow mountains.
The best in fine weather is a weakish Radio Ulster on 94.5( I think) , which on one freak day even gave RDS...but there was stuff wafting in from Italy that day too with RDS, so it was freaky....I digress ...
mm

NorthDown

Yes, on an aside Divis FM is very strong. Was on the Penines (scotch corner to Penrith) last year more on the Scotch Corner end retuning radio and accidentally got 96.0 Radio 4 - there's only only one tx that broadcasts R4 on that frequency - and if memeory serves me right R4 is slightly lower power than 1,2,3,Ulster

Am determined to withhold from getting a dish unless I have to - if I get the RTEs/TG4 with new Clermont Carn I suspect Sky will be waiting some time longer to get a sub. from me. If only they'd put the RTE/TG4 services on up here in the first place!

With BBC Scotland analogue with Border here and Clermont Carn and DTT I'd be very happy.

Paul do you know if the other channels are going to be put on Clermont Carn. Was there a switching break for Tg4 from tx to other or were both txs broadcasting ch68 TG4 at same time? Certainly it seems to ring true that work is not finished as the Aertel was indicating just last week that Clermont Carn is on reduced power - I was beginning to think someone had forgotten to take that page off the technical pages. It was supposed to finsh in June - was the weather so bad that work got delayed?

lawhec

Clermont can be picked up along the Ards peninsula but at the end, around Portaferry town and across in Strangford they use Kippure for Band iii VHF. A number of C/D UHF's, presumably for Kippure UHF, have also appeared in the last year or so.

Ahh, so that's where I remember seeing them! For Portaferry the path between them and Kippure is mostly sea which obviously helps.

Oddly enough RTE1 from Clermont Carn is actually fine, but the other 3 are unwatchable.

Probably because RTE1 uses the lowest channel (52) from Clermont Carn with the higher channels not being able to overcome the Mournes. When RTE announced a few years ago that they were shutting down the Band I service of RTE1 from Maghera in Co.Clare they asked TV dealers in the area who were installing new Band III areas to contact them for any areas where Band I TV was OK but not Band III so they could plan for transposers.

It could be possible that TG4 was testing on the new mast in the early hours of the morning and now daytime testing has started.

With BBC Scotland analogue with Border here and Clermont Carn and DTT I'd be very happy.

I often heard plently of buses from Belfast that went to pubs in Bangor to watch Rangers in European matches on Border TV, and I'm sure the Landlords will be happy with the SPL/BBC Scotland deal! The happiest men about since a petrol station owner from Dundalk who rang RTE Radio the day after the UK budget a few years ago saying that he wanted to personally congratulate Gordon Brown for rising already very high petrol prices in the UK!

Was on the Penines (scotch corner to Penrith) last year more on the Scotch Corner end retuning radio and accidentally got 96.0 Radio 4 - there's only only one tx that broadcasts R4 on that frequency - and if memeory serves me right R4 is slightly lower power than 1,2,3,Ulster

For some odd reason Divis has omidirectional TX aerials for both TV and Radio which means it can be picked up well in Dumfries & Galloway! Bit wasteful. Yep, BBC Radio 4 from Divis is on half the power of the other servics to protect ILR allocations in the UK & Ireland, in particular LMFM. Same with the Sherrifs' Mt. Transmitter in Derry City whose Radio 4 TX is on low power to protect Northern Sound in Cavan.

Sky digital is taking all the fun out of building Ironmongery and dx'ng for TV and Radio:(

Agreed. Trying to get that weak signal is what DXing revolves around. The fact that you can now get it in crystal clear digital takes a bit of fun out of it now.

Paul Buckle

Checked Clermont's TG4 on CH68 today - it's coming in loud and clear even here in Portaferry. Hopefully the others will follow soon.

Paul Buckle

Sad to report that last post may be a false alarm.....just found BBC South West and Carlton Westcountry coming in loud and clear, so it could be down to atmospherics......

Thats quite correct.
There is an area of high pressure over Britain this evening and it has signals hopping over massive lenghts
Arfon is destroyed here tonight with co channel from Cornwall.
Caradon hill is beaming in with perfect teletext.
I have border and Granada off the aerial tonight also...
no sign of TG4 Clermont though just as it doesn't like the mournes,it doesn't like the wicklow mts either:D
mm

Paul Buckle

S4C loud and clear as well, though that's not that odd here, any lift at all and it pops up.
I've never had Cambret Hill BBC1 Scotland wiped by the Southwest before though. Last time I clocked anything from that part of the world it was Westward !!!

Marconi

I have been advised by a contact in RTE that TG4 is currently on the new mast in Clermont Carn and that the other three channels will be transferred in the next few weeks after all engineering tests have been completed. So if you're now receiving TG4 better than before, you can rest assured it's not due to atmospherics. He also said that there could be some interruptions from time to time and TG4 may be temporarily put back on the old mast.

Paul Buckle

Was in touch with RTE today, they are quite friendly - just drop them a line, the only thing that takes away from the good news about Ch 68 is that TV3 - which I couldn't get at all is perfectly watchable and Net 2 and RTE1 are spot on as well, though RTE1 is prone to being swamped by BBC Wales. As the other channels are coming in at present I can't really say for sure that TG4 reception is due to the new mast or just the "skip". I'll check again once everything settles down. Fingers crossed though !
Anyone know how far to the east the Kippure signal travels ?

lawhec

Anyone know how far to the east the Kippure signal travels ?

Cousins of an aunt of mine who are from the Isle of Man tell me that RTE can be received along the south and south west coast of the island, assuming that it is Kippure.

NorthDown

I'm not at base at the moment but thankyuo for the info. Let's hope they get the new tx up and running. I tried the old callsave number to RTe but it woulsdn'r put me through so I sent a letter.

Richard

Originally posted by NorthDown
I'm not at base at the moment but thankyuo for the info. Let's hope they get the new tx up and running. I tried the old callsave number to RTe but it woulsdn'r put me through so I sent a letter.

All very interesting. I'd better go and check my TV to see if TG4 is coming through.

It isn't that special for me to receive Irish TV here in Bangor, though since I'm hardly ever here - I live down south most of the time.

By the way - "North Down" tried to send you an e-mail but boards.ie wouldn't let me - I think you've disabled that option. I'll be away for a good while though, as of tomorrow...

egal

Any developments over the last ten days, folks?

NorthDown

Yes plentyhappening egar. I was on a cruise round the Baltic , so if you're reading this Richard we could have met as on another thread you appear in Scandanvia for a while. I did state in the last email if you give Damien a mail he'll pass my email on to you so I can find out where home was for you in North Down.

Paul Buckle - where are you located for S4C?

TG4 is still strong so it;s deifinitely on new tx. Today around 5.15pm RTE1 was coming through on my Scotland/NI aerial set in colour - does anyone know if Whitehead was switched off (nothing on Ceefax) or was this tx testing - there was no sign of co channel which makes me suspicious there were problems at Whitehead. At 7.00 the signal had weakened so could be atmospherics. Anyone know what was happening?

My friend notes on Aertel that Clermont Carn is to be off air tomorow (sat) during the day and in the early hours of Tuesday (3rd Sept) - is this to transfer the other signals?

Finally what number was phoned to get tx. info out of RTE. as I posted while at sea I've sent a letter but got no reply. The callsave number is no more -evidently cost cutting on RTE to stop the deficit getting worse.

All information gratefully appreciated folks!

NorthDown

After the switch off on Tuesday and switch on again I have to say I've got RTE1 and Net2 audio with some co channel from Whitehead on my main aerial. Indoor amped aerial can get better picture with teletext even btreaking through sometimes. TV3 comes through in colour but with some interference on main aerial. TG4 needs the indoor aerial directed to get half decent recpetion. Have called out aerial contractors who have been recommended to me and are willing to come to town so they will be down during the week seeing if a proper CD aerial vertically polarised will do the job . If you've been in a marginal area for reception from the transmitter it'd be well worth a look to see how recpetion has changed - all folks I know who use the tx to get RTE are reporting vast improvements on reception.

Main thing was able to see Munster on TG4 on Friday last and Ireland v Romania on Net2 Sat (though the second half wasn;t worth watching!) :-)

Richard

Hi NorthDown - I asked Damien to send you my e-mail address - did you get it?

If not, you could send me a personal message if you want to get in touch.

EDIT: Just realised I could send you a personal message directly!

NorthDown

Richard
Yes have email address - been down with the flu for a few days. So will try to mail you tonight. I'l be interested to know whereabouts in the town you used to reside and what the recpetion was like. It's quite incredible at the moment- RTE1 was clear last night with a bit of grain, TV3 clear more grain. Net2 still shows signs of cochannel, TG4 needs the indoor amped aerial. Still looking forward to what tomorrow brings with aerial guys who appear to know what they're talking about.

egal

Please keep the information coming, lads.

I live in Omagh and had fairly good reception from Holywell Hill in Donegal until UK tv digital transmissions started from Brougher Mountain two years ago.

I am looking for an alternative and appreciate all the news I can get re. Clermont Carn.

lawhec

Originally posted by egal
Please keep the information coming, lads.

I live in Omagh and had fairly good reception from Holywell Hill in Donegal until UK tv digital transmissions started from Brougher Mountain two years ago.

I am looking for an alternative and appreciate all the news I can get re. Clermont Carn.

Being from Fintona, I might be able to have a stab at this!:D
Quite a number of households got the RTÉ service from Holywell Hill as far south as Omagh and Drumquin until Brougher Mountain started DTT tests. Lots of people in and around Omagh complained about this and DTT from Brougher was halted until a reasonable amount of time was given for people to switch their aerials to an alternative RTÉ transmitter.

In and around Omagh it isn't too hard to get an alternative RTÉ TV source. The most common TX that people receive for RTÉ in the area is the VHF service from Truskmore. In Tyrone this extends up around the Derg Valley, and going as far north as Newtownstewart. The eastern limit is around Carrickmore / Ballygawley although I've seen these aerials also in Draperstown in S.Derry and in Killeeshil (about halfway between Ballygawley and Dungannon. However your TV must need a VHF Band III tuner (most TV's sold around Omagh has this except for the real cheap ones) and if you also want TV3 and TG4 you'll need a UHF aerial as well. In some cases you might get away without the need for a masthead amp, but in most cases you'll need it.

Another alternative is to receive the Carin Hill service from Longford. The advantage of this is that you can receive all four Irish TV services on one aerial (UHF). However the signal strength for Carin Hill is lower than that than Truskmore. It still doesn't stop it being used though in many parts of West Tyrone, I've seen aerials for it as far north as Greencastle. You'll need a good higain aerial and a masthead for it, but is perfectly possible in your case. Before DTT most RTÉ setups around Omagh that used Holywell Hill used the Strabane relay for the UK services (Brougher wasn't possible because it uses channels adjacent to Holywell Hill.) If your aerial is in good condition it could be possible to use the Strabane aerial to be pointed towards Carin Hill and for the Holywell Hill aerial to be pointed to Brougher Mountain, therefore regaining all Irish TV services.

As far as Clermont Carn goes, FM reception from the TX has always been possible around Omagh though Truskmore comes in with a stronger signal. TV has generally been a no-no though. The furthest West I've ever seen aerial for Clermont Carn is around the Ballygawley Roundabout and also in parts of the south Sperrins. I haven't had time recently to check if the new tests allow it to come any further west, but if it can reach Fintona (I'll try sometime in the next few days) it should also reach Omagh.

NorthDown

Personally, I think any tx service map for Clermont Carn needs to be chucked out the window - the new mast is about 50% taller - picture at Richard Logue's site (irishtv) under dxtv. From the reception I have the tx has been increased - friends in Moira and my home town as well as in Belfast (at work ) all confirm signal increase. So areas that were marginal or not in may now be in Clermont Carn's service area.

I used to get UTV & BBC2 from Whitehead on ch 52 and ch56 with cochannel from RTE. On the Tuesday the tx was switched off and on again (presumably to new mast) I now have RTE with cochannel from Whitehead.

Got an aerial up yesterday, and success! RTE1 has cochannel still - a venetian blind effect but Net2, TV3 and TG4 are crystal clear, rock solid. I'd had other guys who had put up folks I know RTE aerials about 3 years ago but couldn;t overcome the cochannel - it's all changed now. One does wonder if anyone with aerials pointing to Whitehead which also point towards Clermont Carn now get cochannel.

Aerial enginneer said himself he'd never seen RTE in my town before - I told him there was an area of the town that had had aerials for years. He reckoned he was going to get his money from a call out charge and no reception. So the tx has increased its service area - but which directions I don't honestly know. If anyone in previously marginal areas can let me know I'd appreciate it.

Moira folks tell me that where TG4 was sometimes a little grainy, it's now perfect.

BelfastGav

I live in Dundonald - not especially low-lying but notoriously difficult for reception of all terrestrial services - and had an RTE aerial installed several years ago. Reception patchy at best (Network 2 best but text errors, RTE One just about watchable but with virtually no text, TV3 poor and TV4 virtually non-existent). Only imrpvement would be in freak weather conditions or if testing being done.

However, since Monday past, the transformation is amazing: RTE One and Network 2 now equally good, with no errors on text, TV3 perfectly watchable with few errors on text, and even TG4 not bad with sone text. Good sound quality on all four services.

egal

Thank you, Northern Correspondent, for your most comprehensive post. I await the results of your experiments with interest.

I do know a man about 2 miles west of Omagh who has almost perfect reception of the four Irish channels from Clermont and this is BEFORE the recent upgrade. However, he does have something which I don't have a lot of - height.

Richard

Okay, back in Sunny Bangor and it seems to be a good day for getting other channels!

Bear in mind that this is with a Group A aerial pointing towards Divis (and not a very good one at that).

I have managed to get the following:

BBC 1 Scotland all over the place - CH 22 is the stongest but also getting it on 44 and other places.

53 RTE1 B/W picture - very grainy, occasional sound
55 BBC One NorthWest / picture comes and goes, always grainy, occasional sound. Now watch NorthWest tonight with Gordon Burns!
56 Network 2 - quality similar to RTE1
59 ITV1 not sure what region but it isn't UTV or Border. Maybe Scottish.
66 TV3 - B/W picture though a bit better quality than RTE channels.

Haven't found TG4 yet (I'll have to look up the channel number) but the warm weather certainly seems to be helping!

Richard

Originally posted by Richard

59 ITV1 not sure what region but it isn't UTV or Border. Maybe Scottish.

It is Granada! Well that's a first for me - Granada on Ch59 in Bangor. It is on Winter Hill which also has DTT so I might try for that. It is a good distance away and I am also getting a better BBC 1 NW now. I have switched to a set-top aerial which is producing better results than the roof one.

NorthDown - can you get Granada?

Update: No DTT - Clermont Carn shares some channels with Winter Hill DTT so I'm not surprised. Granada disappears sometimes but it is much better than Clermont Carn - perfect sound (mono TV) picture usually colour (a small amount of graininess) and I get Teletext sometimes!