Penatly Points Finally Arrive! Be Afraid...

mike65

On Friday the government announced the introduction of the penalty points system from October. It'll be done on a phased basis with speeding the first to be tackled then bit by bit other
matters like seatbelts, etc will be added. 2 points on the spot
4 points if you go to court and loose. 12 points equalls ban,
not sure if you'll have to resit the test after!

Its only taken about 4 years to get this far still its a start, what are the boy racers and BMW jockeys going to do?!

Mike.

LegacyUser

i drive a blue and white fiat punto

sceptre

Like most other people I'm guilty of the odd bit of speeding. This'll be curbing my occasional speeding a bit. Hopefully it'll also curb those guys that race around the country all day and night with samples or politicians in the back of the car

Robbo

Jeebus, in the last six months I would have racked up 6 points.

And I don't drive a 1.4 Honda Civic with a Kenwood sticker in the window and a fibreglass abortion on the front bumper.

Stephen

Yeah, it is 12 points and you're out, but that's only if you accumulate 12 points in a 3 year period.

sceptre

Hopefully they'll be reasonably sharpish about introducing points for dangerous/inconsiderate driving (3-4 maybe), breaking lights (I suppose 2 would be fair), no seatbelts, using phones (certainly falls under dangerous driving). I'd add in double parking but no-one seems to give a rat's monkey about that.

Anyone who manages to use a phone, eat, smoke and scream at children, all at the same time, while darting into a lane without looking or indicating should just be given the 12 for the sake of the rest of humanity.

OLDYELLAR

hows about running a red light right outside a garda ststion , with onea the guards standing in the yard there looking at ya..............................yes i deserve a fine , if i get one .

Robbo

I'd like to see a multiplier effect in relation to what you drive.

Bourgeois APC's (aka the Megane Scenic) subject to 1.5 times normal points, oversized Tonka Toys (Pajeros, Landcruisers) at twice the norm....

Ba$tard

I would like to see the following 'scoring system' implemented

Parents who allow their children to clamber all over the dash while driving
12 points and a charge of attempted manslaughter

Parents who allow their kids not to wear seatbelts or put infants in the front seat without a childseat
12 points and a charge of attempted manslaughter

People who drive up other peoples backsides
6 points and a crack in the head with a lead pipe for annoyance

People who park in areas where there may be no double-yellow lines but requires a high level of retartedness to park there
4 points

Trucks which give cyclists about 15 microns space between a ditch and a 40 inch tyre
12 points and attempted manslaughter

Speeding in housing estates
12 points and being tacked to a wall by children with nailguns

Ok, that was a wee bit humourous (not!) but I really do hope the points system make some people less ignorant as to what they are doing on the roads... and I too am prone to the odd bit of speeding but only on good roads....and why is that? because the Irish nation are not accustomed to roads of a level nature and so tend to make the most of it....IMO

Borzoi

As with all the Ministerial announcements on this, I'll believe it when I see it.

But it will suck.

What's worse is the insurance co's will start asking if you've points on your licence, and racking your premiums up as a result.

Rabies

Originally posted by Borzoi
What's worse is the insurance co's will start asking if you've points on your licence, and racking your premiums up as a result.

of course insurance premiums will rise if you have points on your licence.

this will encourage people to drive with some bit of sense and not receive points. if after 3 years you have no points then your premium might be reduced (i hope).

insurance companies will definitly see a good reason to increase insurance costs of young drivers when this scheme is introduced. the first couple of years will prob be the worst. but after the 3 years if costs dont go down then the insurance companies will have some explaining to do.

i think the penalty points sytem is a great idea but i can see it being abused by insurance companies for a few years.

seamus

Originally posted by Rabies
i think the penalty points sytem is a great idea but i can see it being abused by insurance companies for a few years.

That's what I'm thinking too. Luckily, I'm on a bike that has trouble pushing past 50mph, so speeding is rareish for me . Hopefully though after the period of abuse, insurance co's will rate people fairly as regards points. ie., the premiums that we all pay now will be what people with 6 points pay. People with less points pay less, people with more points pay more. Simple. Oh, but hang on, it's Ireland.

Is there any regs as regards provisional drivers and points? Surely to rack up 6 points in 2 years should disqualify a provisional driver? Just IMO

Rabies

Originally posted by seamus
Is there any regs as regards provisional drivers and points? Surely to rack up 6 points in 2 years should disqualify a provisional driver? Just IMO

that would be a great idea but i can see insurance compaines not really caring about that. all they will see is your age. under 25 and you need a bank loan to pay them for a years premium.

Hopefully though after the period of abuse, insurance co's will rate people fairly as regards points. ie., the premiums that we all pay now will be what people with 6 points pay. People with less points pay less, people with more points pay more.

good point. there needs to be some amendments made to the insurance companies policies about pricing. hopefuly they will adopt those tactics.

as you all ready said

Simple. Oh, but hang on, it's Ireland.

the sooner i turn 25 the better, insurance might come down to a some what reasonable price. only another 2yrs 5 months to go

gurramok

Don't forget, i cannot see it being enforced properly, we dont even have a traffic corps !!
There is no visible/hidden deterrent for motorists to drive safely.

mike65

Originally posted by gurramok
Don't forget, i cannot see it being enforced properly, we dont even have a traffic corps !!

Some government functionary or maybe "top Garda" announced
same today, one has been in the works for a few years but internal Garda politics has held its creation up. Which is par...:(

Mike.

xern

It's good to see it coming in! hopefully it might get a lot of the little boy racers off the road!

BeatTun

will women get points on their licences for like braking hard in the middle of the road, and THEN indicating to the right, and THEN driving on straight again?

etc etc etc etc :rolleyes:

DivX

Further delays hit drivers' penalty system



Just saw this on ireland.com , looks like the traffic corps won't be ready until next year and the software to handle the points system isn't near completed....

Looks like the boy-racers have nothing to worry about for another year......

Borzoi

I'm tempted to 'Whoot' but will restrain myself.

Similar report in todays Irish Times (Coincidence?)

Even next year sesms opimistic, based on the Guards assessment that new software will cost €11m, and they don't want that taken out of there operations budget.

seamus

Originally posted by Borzoi
I'm tempted to 'Whoot' but will restrain myself.

Similar report in todays Irish Times (Coincidence?)

Even next year sesms opimistic, based on the Guards assessment that new software will cost €11m, and they don't want that taken out of there operations budget.

€11m?? FS...I'll happily lock myself in and write that software in a year for €11m

I reckon the whole problem is organisation. The Government and the Gardai don't co-operate like they should. The Gov introduce new penalties and regulations without even consulting the Gardai, and in turn the Gardai resist all change without a pay increase or some form of compensation :rolleyes:

DivX

IMO its the exchequer thats at fault, if they introduce the new points system, they have lost all the loot from on the spot fines, and then payout for a new system (11m), introduce a new traffic corp, have to pay these new recruits and probably have alot of disputed cases ending up in court... think its only the EU are looking for its introduction anyway... the insurance companies claim that they will lower premiums when its introduced, but they'll just think of another excuse anyway... could go on...

Alot of the fatilities which this new system is supposed to curb happen in the early hours, so probably won't have much of an effect of current situation.

I'd rather get a fine than the points on my licence anyway :rolleyes:

bertiebowl

Latest news - it seems that the penaltypoints will be delayed again!

leeroybrown

but after the 3 years if costs dont go down then the insurance companies will have some explaining to do.

Of course the costs won't come down. The insurance companies will just do what they always do and claim that the cost of accidents is forcing them to keep premiums high.

These days its as cheap to rent a large City centre appartment in Dublin as it is to pay insurance between 18 and 25. (25 and rising)

Bo Duke

I know this hasn`t much to do with the thread but why do most of you have problems with as you call them "boy racers".I happen to be one of them anti-social misfits.Do you not think we want some way of dropping insurance prices.We have to pay them as well.Is it cause we spend our money on cars and not in the pubs. You have to remember the chances of catch most genuine modifiers drunk while driving is rare cause the Gardai are always harassing us.For all you haters I hope when you have kids they become petrol heads so you can be converted.:) :cool:

DivX

I know this hasn`t much to do with the thread but why do most of you have problems with as you call them "boy racers".I happen to be one of them anti-social misfits.Do you not think we want some way of dropping insurance prices.

I going to be abit off topic also with this one, i don't think that its the car modders or boy-racers are the problem, IMO it's the judical system thats wrong, the solicitors get a good percentage of the claim (think i heard up to 40%) and the payouts are far in excess of what we see in other EU contries...

we should have standard payouts and not have near lottery win claims that we see payed out for some of the minor accidents..

leeroybrown

The points system will hopefully deal with the bad bunch of so called "Boy Racers". There is a group of the boy racers who push up premiums because of accidents but some are decent drivers.


Off THread Again:

Huge Claims & Ambulance Chasers

jf_cole

Ok, while in theory and on paper the points system seems like a fantastic idea, it is going to make things worse.

1: the gardai NEVER seem to put up speed checks in blackspot areas or near schools ( anywhere where speeding would really kill somebody )

Instead they will operate behind bushes at the end of the motorway or on a 30mph limit dual carraigeway. This is going to rack up fines and points for fairly minor offences.

2: when introduced, it will firstly focus on speeding, yeay...... SEE ABOVE.

Basically one of the smaller causes of road deaths will be tackled first, mainly because there is money to be made, points to be had, and its an easy job for the authorities ( much harder to catch dangerous driving in the act )

3: anyone who thinks insurance will actually go down is a fool. I can imagine being on the phone....INS CO.: have you got any points on your license?? ME: no.... INS CO: ok, your premium stays the same.

There aint a way that they will reduce premiums cuz you have no points.

Basically people will still drive dangeously, still do stupid things, but we will all drive like snails paying more attention to our speedo than watching the road.

I hate the government.

Bo Duke

Ok as regards insurance.In the past few years there were a few ideas on how to drop insurance costs.Here they are........
1.The NCT test!!!!!Test???More like an endurance test for a car and an absolute waste of my time and money.My car passed with unbelievably low emissions.Did my insurance drop cause of my environmental car??I think not!!!!

2.Driver theory test.Two words."MONEY SPINNER".To get my provisional A licence I need to take the test although it`s the same as a car thoery test and I have a full Licence.Did it drop premiums??I think the answer is ........... "NO".

3.One sure way of dropping your insurance is to go to AXA and have a tracker fitted take a defensive driving course and tell them you won`t drive between the hours of 11pm and 6am.Bull I`ll drive when I want to and why is a full Licence good enough proof of your driving compentency.
I ask is AXA saying our Department for the environment and local government didn`t make a hard enough test??????Surely not. A government agency mess up.That would never happen!!!!!!!!

So just realise Insurance won`t drop until their cartel is broken up

leeroybrown

Penalty Points are a step in the right direction. As pointed out above most drivers who pick up points will probably be for doing 10 Mph above the rediculous 30 Mph limit on a dual carriageway doing a few miles per hour more on the open road. 99.9% of drivers who do this (a large proportion of road users) will not be caught and a vastly smaller percentage will in anyway cause any danger by doing it.

In my opinion its all about driving at a sensible speed for the conditions you're in. The real danger is people who drive dangerously in urban areas or on roads where dangers may be present. The Gardaí are only doing their jobs by hitting the speeders on big wide safe roads. Its at a governmental and garda policy level where their efforts should be directed towards areas which cause more problems.

sceptre

Originally posted by Bo Duke
One sure way of dropping your insurance is to go to AXA and have a tracker fitted take a defensive driving course and tell them you won`t drive between the hours of 11pm and 6am.Bull I`ll drive when I want to

Insurance would be invalid if you agreed not to drive durnig those hours and did. If I knew about it someone would be hearing about it (and normally I wouldn't be a snitch - but the idea of someone in a car being in an accident and leaving someone financially screwed as a result of the other party with no insurance would be enough to get me on the phone fast)

Bo Duke

I wouldn`t agree with anyone driving with out insurance.I also disagree with the insurance companies telling us we`ll insure you if you won`t drive at night.

DivX

i know a guy that has insurance with AXA and had a tracker installed.

he said that he has to download the unit every friday, and this unit must be keeping track of his activities.

He got a letter from them, telling him to cop on with his driving times or his insurance would be cancelled.

For all this he gets something like €500 off his premium...

leeroybrown

On these special reduction policies are you completely uninsured if you drive outside the premitted hours?

A survey/study a few years ago showed that more than 1 in 20 drivers was uninsured. I'm sure its risen since. This group are really killing the people who pay their insurance as a large proportion of insurance payments goes into the common pool for Uninsured Drivers. (more exact figures were up on the Motors board ages ago)

sceptre

So now it's going to be privatised apparently.

Don't have a link to a full story - here's what I pulled off the ireland.com news on e-merge:

State to privatise penalty points system for drivers
The Department of Transport is to privatise the proposed penalty points system for driving offences in a move to ensure its introduction by the end of next month.

jf_cole

Privatisation?? oh crap!! look what happened the trains in england when they did that, accidents all over the shop. I cant wait to have a profit making company looking after my license.

mike65

Just a bump to note that a basic version of the penalty points will be operation by end of October, but mobile phones ban has been put back again due to some obscure reason or other.

Mike.

Chimaera

To whoever was wondering about provisional license holders, and the regs, there are provisions in the penalty points system to penalise unaccompanied driving on a first provisional license.

IMHO the penalty points system is a good thing if it makes people cop on about their driving. Sure, it's going to catch out people who are a few mph over the limit from time to time, but if it can get rid of people who talk on the mobile phone while doing 90mph, or the parents who are too stupid to make sure their children are properly restrained in the car, then it's a good thing.

As for speed traps, they need to be looked at by the powers that be. Hidden speed traps on motorways and dual carriageways are just money-spinners, as research in the UK has shown time and again. Recently, the UK government made a policy decision to demand that all speed cameras be painted bright yellow, and have a warning sign 100m back the road, so that they behave as a deterrent to speeding, rather than a means of catching out people once they have broken the speed limit. Personally, I won't exceed the speed limit if I know I'm going to be caught, whereas if there's only a chance that there might be a hidden speed trap, then I'll take my chances provided the road conditions are suitable.

seamus

Originally posted by Chimaera
To whoever was wondering about provisional license holders, and the regs, there are provisions in the penalty points system to penalise unaccompanied driving on a first provisional license.

Only at the beginning. While it's being conducted on paper, penalty points are only awarded for speeding, plus a €65 fine.

When the computer system goes live, there are 61 separate offences which will gain you penalty points. Unaccompanied prov. drivers included (1 point).

people once they have broken the speed limit. Personally, I won't exceed the speed limit if I know I'm going to be caught, whereas if there's only a chance that there might be a hidden speed trap, then I'll take my chances provided the road conditions are suitable.

Well, that's another thing that penalty points are designed to curb. Unless you have a scanner, you can never know when a Garda might appear behind you or in front of you, on speed checking you on the road. Hopefully, this uncertainty will help slow people down (obviously we'll all still break the limit, just not as regularly), especially those on 9 points already, ie dangerous drivers. It's pointless telling people where the cameras are. Once you've passed it, you'll just speed off again. I think the signs with just a camera on them are great. They let you know you're being watched, but you don't know where they are, or how long they last, keeping you slower for longer.

ShayK1

Originally posted by Rabies

this will encourage people to drive with some bit of sense and not receive points. if after 3 years you have no points then your premium might be reduced (i hope).

As long as there are Insurance companies there will be high premiums!!! The are money grappin B*ST*RDS!!!

pertinax

To reduce:
"To lower the price of"

Insurance companies version of reduce:
"To become greater or larger."

FreaK_BrutheR

Points system leaves too much at the discretion of the authorities and if a privatisation comes into place I mean what the flook? They're gonna REALLY be tryin to rack up the points like.

Its all fairly sh!tty in a country where us the drivers are continuously battered and mistreated by all aspects of government and insurance.

I drive carefull, am 28 years old so my insurance is fine and I dont speed etc but by flook I'm still completely against this.

I'll drive between 65/70mph when I feel its safe, rarely go above that like.... would you people think I should be gettin 2 penalty points?

Flookin gardai can be plink plonks and biaised etc... Private companies.... well flookin hell you can be garaunteed they won't EVEN be Irish like.

I think the system we have is fine really when implemented properly..... fix the flookin roads and you'll see a decline in road deaths and accidents!!!

Drivers are discriminated against enough as it is!

mike65

This from the indo.

Double penalty for speeding drivers as fines rise to €80

SPEEDING drivers will face a double penalty as the Government prepares to hit them in the pocket.

Fines for speeding are set to rise by 30pc from €60 to €80 early in the New Year.

And the long-awaited penalty points system gets into gear next week with speeding motorists to get a two point sanction from October 31.

The hike in speeding fines will help fund the €11m Garda computer system required to operate the Department of Transport's penalty points system.

Given that there were 345,000 fines for speeding last year the department can expect a €7m windfall thanks to the increase.

Mike.

Mr E

OK, so it looks like the points start on Thursday.

I have a question.... Anyone from Limerick knows Childers road. Its 30mph all the way (AFAIK) but everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) does 40 on it.

Will the gardai enforce a slowdown on this road? Will penalty points be issued in this case?

- Dave.

Bard

on the radio news this morning I heard that the gardaí are complaining that they haven't yet been briefed on how it is intended that the system is to be run - and it's due to be up and running on Thursday... :rolleyes:

Chimaera

TmB: In over 5 years of driving, I've never seen a speed trap on Childer's Road. There's no good reason for keeping the limit at 30mph there either - it's interesting to note that it was originally built as the ring road around Limerick. There are enough designated pedestrian crossings on it to allow at least a 40mph limit.

JohnBoy

I've often travelled from kilmallock to roxboro roundabouts with guards around and everyone doing forty, they turn a blind eye, and it's not like you're often gonna make forty from tipp to the parkway......

So what are the points going to be?

2 for speeding is it?

but what other offences.

btw I like the idea that if you go to court to contest the charge and lose then you get double points, should reduce the number of people chancing their arm with the judge, and bring it down to people that actually have some sort of mitigating circumstances...

free up the courts to do real work.

John

sceptre

Originally posted by TmB
OK, so it looks like the points start on Thursday.

I have a question.... Anyone from Limerick knows Childers road. Its 30mph all the way (AFAIK) but everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) does 40 on it.

Will the gardai enforce a slowdown on this road? Will penalty points be issued in this case?

- Dave.

I would guess that they won't. The road isn't wide enough to have a proper check on it for one thing (though I suppose they could stand on one of the roundabouts but then you'd be slowing down coming into it)

Childers Road is one of those odd roads really - a ring road with a low speed limit. I don't think they'll fine anyone for doing just under or around 40 there. Given that all estates are walled in fairly well, I'm genuinely surprised it isn't a 40 by now.

OT: You've started leaving home very early for work then? When I leave the city centre it's always after 9, winding around the Childers Road I only ever get to reach 30-35 for about 50 metres after the Waterford road roundabout

Mr E

Early enough, yeah. I try to leave between 7:45 and 8 (sometimes earlier if I can).

I was in work yesterday, and Childers Road was deserted (so I was doing a solid 40 all the way along).

- Dave.

BioHazRd

Ok , it looks like the points system is kicking in tomorrow, but only for speeding initially.
There have been quite a few emails knocking about here about - some of which have had a couple of incorrect opinions, so I have included a link to the actual bill here. Its not that hard to read, and it is the definitive article
Let there be no more confusion

Road Traffic Bill 2001 (217 Kb download)

Bio