BelFast, Derry Bombs Bullets Start ?

JacquesPompidou

Ok, I'm back
but I'm nbot here to bicker and slag you Irish, this is more of a serious note when did the Bombings, Troubles, Suspicion and Conflict between the Green and the Orange really begin?


Was it when Henry started cutting of his wives heads?
Did it start on Bloody Sunday?
Is Cromwell responsible?
Was Eamon Develara the man who started the fighting?

BJJ

There is No real begining.


1169 First Anglo-Normans arrive in Ireland, marking start of Norman invasion of Ireland. MacMurrough is given back kingship of Leinster.

1170 The Anglo-Norman leader Richard FitzGilbert de Clare, also known as 'Strongbow', lands in Waterford. He marries MacMurrough's daughter, storms and captures Dublin, and invades Meath.

1609 Protestantism takes root in Northern Ireland after British Protestant forces defeat native Irish Catholics in a bloody nine-year war.

1641 Insurrection spreads throughout Ireland. Rebels form the Confederate Catholics of Ireland, and set up their seat in Kilkenny.

1642-1652 Civil War.

1649 Cromwell lands in Ireland; massacre of Drogheda and sack of Wexford.

1650 Catholic land owners exiled to Connaught.

1653 Cromwell's subjugation of Ireland complete. Irish landowners evicted and land handed over to Protestant settlers.

1656 More than 60,000 Irish Catholics had been sent as slaves to Barbados, and other islands of the Caribbean.

1672 Over 6,000 Irish boys and women sold as slaves since England gained control of Jamaica.

1690 Battle of Boyne: the Catholic (and Stuart) cause is decisively lost to the victorious William of Orange. The flight of the Earls, the Irish nobility, begins soon after.

1692 Catholics are excluded from office for the first time.

1695-7 Catholic clergy banished and PENAL LAWS instituted (depriving Catholics of civil rights).

1740 The forgotten famine.

1778 Irish Volunteer Movement founded; Catholic Relief Bill passed, giving Roman Catholics leasehold and inheritance rights

1793 Catholics permitted to vote.

1798 Rebellion in Ulster and Leinster. Much fighting around the country, with the last battles of the United Irishmen fought at Ballynahinch, Down and in Co. Wexford marking the final defeat of the rebels.

1801 Ireland is made part of the United Kingdom.

BJJ

Cromwell said: "By God's divine providence" he and his troops would "carry on the great work against the barbarous and bloodthirsty Irish..." After his army laid siege to the town of Drogheda, and killed the entire garrison, he wrote:

"It hath pleased God to bless our endeavors in Drogheda...The enemy were about 3,000 strong in the town...I do not think 30 of the whole number escaped with their lives. Those that did are in safe custody for the Barbados...I wish that all honest hearts may give the glory of this to God alone, to whom indeed the praise of this mercy belongs." Cromwell proceeded to Wexford where he slaughtered 2,000 more. (7.)

The English poet John Milton wrote at this time: "God is decreeing some new and great period. What does He then but reveal himself...as his manner is, first to his Englishmen?" (8.)

NO PEOPLE MORE PREJUDICED
British contempt for the Irish was part of an increasing disdain for foreigners in general. The Swiss traveller de Saussure observed them in 1727:

"I do not think there is a people more prejudiced in its own favor than the British people, and they allow this to appear in their talk and manners. They look on foreigners in general with contempt, and think nothing is as well done elsewhere as in their own country."

1845-1850 A million and a half Irish starve to death during the Great Potato Famine, and a million more emigrate to avoid a similar fate.

1848-49 The worst years of the famine.

1893 Formation of the Gaelic League to revive Irish culture.

De Valera was rearrested by the British in May 1918 on the charge of suspicion and rebellion, but he escaped (1919) with the help of a group of Sinn Feiners. He then went to the United States, where he raised more than $5 million to support the revolutionary movement; he was also elected president of an Irish republican government in exile. He resigned in 1922, when the Dail Eireann (Irish Parliament) ratified a treaty with Great Britain that De Valera had denounced as a humiliating compromise. Because of his opposition, the Irish Free State government, officially recognised by this same treaty, imprisoned him in 1923. Released after 11 months, he again became head of the Sinn Fein party, which did not participate in the Dail until 1927. In that year a dissident faction of Sinn Fein the Fianna Fail, re-entered the Dail headed by De Valera

1919-1921 Irish War of Independence.

1920
1920

10 Jan. 35 drown when the steamer Treveal is wrecked in the English Channel.

10 Mar. The Ulster Unionist Council accepts the Government's plan for an Ulster Parliament.

10 May. Forty Irish prisoners on hunger strike at Wormwood Scrubs are released.

17 May. Sinn Fein supporters engage in pitched street battles with Unionist politicians in Londonderry.

23 Jul. 14 die and 100 are injured in fierce rioting in Belfast..
.

2 Aug. The Government introduces a new bill to restore order in Ireland including suspension of jury trials.

3 Aug. Catholic riots in Belfast in protest at the British military presence.

29 Aug. Eleven die and 40 wounded in street battles in Belfast.

25 Oct. Tomas MacSwiney, jailed Lord Mayor of Cork, dies in London after a 78 day hunger strike.

14 Jan. Unemployment stands at 927,000.

20 Jan. The Royal Navy submarine K-5 sinks in the English Channel with the loss of 56 lives.

.

4 May. Sinn Feiners murder a police inspector in Glasgow.

7 May. Crown Prince Hirohito of Japan arrives on an official visit.

24 May. Ulster Unionists win 40 out of 52 seats in the new Northern Ireland Parliament.

7 Jun. The new Northern Ireland Parliament assembles.

22 Jun. King George V opens the first Northern Ireland Parliament.

7 Jul. General Jan Smuts meets King George V to discuss the Irish situation.

12 Jul. Eamon De Valera arrives in London for talks.

18 Jul. Ulster negotiators walk out of the truce talks in London.


21 Nov. Troops are sent to restore order after rioting breaks out in east Belfast.

22 Nov. At least ten people die in widespread shootings in Belfast.

1922 Ireland becomes a Free State within the British Commonwealth, except for the six Ulster counties of Northern Ireland, which remain part of the United Kingdom.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

regi

1690 Battle of Boyne: the Catholic (and Stuart) cause is decisively lost to the victorious William of Orange. The flight of the Earls, the Irish nobility, begins soon after.

That particular event has an awful lot of other significance. It was the first time that the UK government moved to a proper parliamentary system with a constitutional monarch, instead of a 'divine right' monarch. Its quite an event in the history of democracy.

Most of western governmental systems of the world have a basis on that model, which started with the battle of the boyne.

GAdamsIsAHero

For this historian, there is a sadness that a people can be so utterly manipulated by a misunderstanding of history. Instead of being shown the reality of a common past.

What is meant by this is everyone has a biased view on history, for example you see the bottle have full and I see it half empty. An example of this in history would be the abolishing of slavery. People against slavery said it was immoral and unjust therefore had to be stopped, those who actually used slaves decided to use hired labour instead of slaves. In those days this was much cheaper, wages where next to nothing, there was no upfront cost of buying or feeding a slave. In reality to say slave trading was banned because of moral reasons is only seeing history from one point of view. This is misleading and the truth is warped, the term is revised history.

If you ask a unionist about the History of Ireland he'll talk about the battle of the boyne where the protestant King William defeated the catholic King James and the Protestant Ascendancy. This is a warped version of history.

The first thing to bear in mind is that the Ascendancy was solely an Anglican Ascendancy and no Dissenting Protestants were considered part of it.

To understand this we have to cut through many layers of mythology and particularly we have to deal with the myth of the Battle of the Boyne. The Boyne was not the most significant battle of the Williamite Conquest of Ireland - Aughrim and the ending of the siege of Limerick a year later, in 1691, were the more important events. And far from William's victory bringing in a period of `civil and religious liberty', for both Dissenting Protestants as well as Catholics it brought in over a century of loss of rights which had already been secured - on paper, at least, in Acts 13 and 15 of James II's Dublin Parliament in 1689. Those Acts guaranteed freedom of religious worship and allowed each religious community to support its own churches and ministers.

Following the victory of William of Orange, whose conquest, incidentally, was supported - financially and politically by Pope Innocent XI under the League of Augsburg - the only religious sect allowed freedom of worship in Ireland was the Anglican Established Church. The Penal Laws enacted against the Catholic religion were also enacted against all Dissenting groups, not the least the Presbyterians. The Presbyterians of Ulster had long been considered `troublemakers' by the English Establishment.
Under William's laws Presbyterian ministers were liable to three months in jail for delivering a sermon and a fine of £100 for performing divine service. By an Act of 1704 all Presbyterians were excluded from holding any office in the Law, Army, Navy, Customs and Excise and even Municipal Employment. In 1713 a further Act made Presbyterian schoolmasters liable to three months imprisonment if they were found teaching. Intermarriage between Presbyterians and Anglicans was declared an illegal act. Couples found to have been married by Presbyterian ministers were jailed and or brought into an Anglican parish Church and condemned, before the congregation, as guilty of the sin of fornication. The so-called `religious liberty' won by William of Orange was the cause of a quarter of a million Ulster Presbyterians migrating to the New World colonies between the years 1717-1776 alone. The 1719 Act of Toleration for Protestant Dissenters only eased the plight of a few rich landowners. It did not halt the flood of ordinary Dissenters seeking religious freedom in other lands.

In the American colonies, it was the exiled Ulster Presbyterians who remembered the conditions of Ireland and who spearheaded the fight for independence in 1776. These Ulstermen provided 19 American revolutionary generals; five were prominent signatories to the Declaration of Independence; four served in Washington's revolutionary cabinet and one was chair of the committee which drafted the American Constitution. Three of the first governors of the thirteen newly independent states were Ulster Presbyterians and, as we know, the children of these Ulster Presbyterians subsequently provided no less than ten American presidents.
It was these same Ulster Presbyterians who brought the spirit of the creed of the Rights of Man and republicanism back to Ireland.
Against this background Irish Catholic and Dissenters began to unite in the first major Irish egalitarian republican movement - the United Irishmen. The idea of Catholics and Dissenters joining forces against the Anglican Establishment and thereby the English colonial power in Ireland - was anaethma to the Ascendancy. The Anglican Archbishop of Armagh, Hugh Boulter, wrote: `The worst of this is that it stands to unite Protestant and Papist, and whenever that happens, goodbye to the English interest in Ireland forever.'

Kim Tae-Woo

So they the English Anglosaxons first attacked Ireland to Annex it into the British Empire almost a thousand years ago. That's some history you guys have, how often have these countries fought and how often have they lived and worked together in peace.

Did the Monaracy and Empire cause most of this.

Why did the French, Scandanavians or Germans never invade Ireland?

Hobbes

Because it rained too much.

The Orange vs Green really started because of William of Orange (Orange Order). You have to laugh though, the guy only ever visited Ireland once and helped put into play all the mess.

mike65

For Kim Tae-Woo

The Scandinavians did invade Ireland stoopid. I'm living in one of thier cities and maybe you are too!

The Germans did'nt though they would have in 1940 if it was'nt for Britain getting in the way (trust me "nutrality" would'nt have cut much mustard if they thought it worth thier while).

As for the French they nearly did 1798 and all that, if that had worked once they had a foothold here it would have been vive la France and sod "les Paddies" I suspect.

Mike.

GAdamsIsAHero

In the ninth century , the Vikings and Norsemen from Scandinavia arrived by longboat , plundering and looting the monasteries and treasures that lay close to the sea and rivers.

Some of the Vikings remained to found the ports of Waterford, originally known as Vadrefjord and Dublin where artefacts continue to be unearthed even today.

The year 1014 ad saw the eventual breaking of Viking influence in Ireland when Brian Boru, the High King of Ireland, along with the army of Tadhg Mór O'Kelly, defeated Sitric Silkbeard ,King of Viking Dublin at the Battle of Clontarf.

As far as Irelands Neutrality in the second world war the Irish government did not want to aid any of the two sides. They opposed the nazi ideas, infact neo-nazis considered catholics in a similar light to the Jews. As for Britian this was the nation that opressed ireland for centuries. The resons for neutrality are obvious. In truth though large amounts of young Irish men joined the British and American ranks forming Irish regiments within those armies. These regiments are still around today.

Hitler even argued that "a neutral Irish Free State is of greater value to us than a hostile Ireland". Britian was of course of the exact same opinion. Both nations it has revealed had drawn up invasion plans, but these of course would only be put into operation if Ireland did not remain neutral.

Clintons Cat

infact neo-nazis considered catholics in a similar light to the Jews.

Would you like to back up that claim with some kind of evidence?

bonkey

Originally posted by GAdamsIsAHero
As far as Irelands Neutrality in the second world war the Irish government did not want to aid any of the two sides. They opposed the nazi ideas, infact neo-nazis considered catholics in a similar light to the Jews.

You would mean "Nazis", not "neo-Nazis", even if you are right. The Neo part is post WW2.

Although it is pre-Matrix.

jc

BJJ

So it seems it began with Cromwell?


Anyway about WW2, Ireland and England have only fought along side each other on 2 ocassions.
One of them was in World War 2, unconfirmed reports of Jews being rounded up and worked to death and gassed by Germans were floating around the USA's papers and European radio.

Many Irish joined and won awards when fighting for England.

Brendan Finucane, also Known as "Paddie" was the 4th best Ace of WW 2, with 32 confirmed kills.


Ireland had some of the highest VC and purple heart winners.


But to some Irish it didn't matter, because Ireland wasn't long out of occupation and a Civil War.
Dating back before the Great Famine, and before 2 massive famines, Ireland had a population of some 8 million people.
Ireland's population was reduced to 1.5 million by hunger, slavery, immigration and war. Even today the population is only half of what it once was.
So to some people there wasn't a lot of different between the English and the Germans they were all the same and only offered death.

There were even plans by some Irish to forge and alliance with either Russia or Germany.

I wonder what would have happened?

sceptre

Originally posted by BJJ
There were even plans by some Irish to forge and alliance with either Russia or Germany.

I wonder what would have happened?

Alliance with Germany? We would have been invaded. Would there have been another option?

Alliance with Russia would be news to me - Communist government, wouldn't have happened.

mike65

Originally posted by BJJ

Ireland's population was reduced to 1.5 million by hunger, slavery, immigration and war. Even today the population is only half of what it once was.

er things were never quite that bad, the low point in the populaton of all-Ireland was about 4 million I think.

Mike.

Sand

Was about 2.8 million at the beginning of the Irish Free State, circa 1920s i think..... Im no expert on Irish historical demographics though- feel free to prove me wrong.

bonkey

Originally posted by Sand
Was about 2.8 million at the beginning of the Irish Free State, circa 1920s i think..... Im no expert on Irish historical demographics though- feel free to prove me wrong.

I think the 2.8m refers to the population of the Free State.
The 4m figure refers to the population of the island (the all-Ireland population).

Both are, AFAIK, pretty accurate.

jc

JarJar blinks

1910 the Population was 1.8 Million

JarJar blinks

Mike are u English?

Keep on Trekin

The registered numbers

From December 1855 to December 1864 1,520,522 Irish people emigrated.

According to Lord Stuarts Census the number of blind deaf & dumb dramatically increased as they were normally left behind during this time. There was also a large increase in the number of lunatics and idiots on the Island of Ireland.

Irish familes were also taken as slaves to Eleuthra, Jamacia and Monserat. Irish rebels were put on prisoner ships and sent to Australia.

The lowest of Ireland's population number was closer to 1 million

JacquesPompidou

Great posts

eth0_

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou
Ok, I'm back
but I'm nbot here to bicker and slag you Irish, this is more of a serious note when did the Bombings, Troubles, Suspicion and Conflict between the Green and the Orange really begin?

Here's a suggestion - Go read a history book.

Lei Xiejiang

Here a suggestion don't ask anyone here cos thy're mostly all pro-English or Freeemasons

Dun

Originally posted by Clintons Cat

quote:

---

infact neo-nazis considered catholics in a similar light to the Jews.

---

Would you like to back up that claim with some kind of evidence?

Not that I like feeding the troll (Kim whatever) but he has a point.. of the 11 million or so that were killed, just under half were non-Jews - mostly Polish Catholics.

From http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/
Polish Christians and Catholics were actually the first victims of the notorious German death camp. For the first 21 months after it began in 1940, Auschwitz was inhabited almost exclusively by Polish non-Jews. The first ethnic Pole died in June 1940 and the first Jew died in October 1942.

and..

Thousands of Catholic priests and Christian pastors were forced into concentration camps. A special barracks was set up at Dachau, the camp near Munich, Germany, for clergymen. A few survived; some were executed, but most were allowed to die slowly of starvation or disease.

Murphys

Its mainly becuase the evil Brits acted worse than facist Nazis.

But they're trying to change their ways

Typedef

Obviously Murphys you are a troll.

I hope you stick around and flame some more, so we can poke fun at you and laugh about you when you get banned.

This is the third thread that you have spouted some moronic anti-British sentiment in. Notably the MOX thread on politics, this thread and the thread on Admin started by the late Kim Tae Woo.

Consider this warning given. Cop on.

Regards
Typedef.

swiss

Oh no, not again.

Muppet reincarnation.

I hope you stick around and flame some more,

Not in this forum he's not. Yer barred. Any more troll accounts that you set up to spam politics will also be banned from this forum, and I would urge DeVore to ban your IP as well - should you decide to do this.

You have three choices

a) Start engaging in reasonable discourse.

b) Stop making racist troll comments like "evil Brits acted worse than fascist Nazis"

c) BE stopped from making racist troll comments, from whatever account you set up.

Thread locked

swiss