Speaker Positions

ShaneOC · 17-07-2002 4:04pm #1

I am moving into a new house soon and I now have the chance to hide all of the wires before the plastering gets done. In my current house I have the TV in the centre of the wall and the speakers basically in each corner. This is not quite possible in the new house (no free centre wall) so any suggestions are welcome.

There is a plan of the room attached, with location of TV.

Thanks
Shane

KdjaCL · 17-07-2002 4:29pm

http://www.dolby.com/ht/Guide.HomeTheater.0110.html#chapter3

They have a setup for your room.
I was in that position and knocked out my fireplace to get the perfect 5.1 setup.(told wife fireplace was hazard to kids heheh)

But if you putting cable behind plaster get the fattest thickest juiciest cabel you can buy ,it might be expensive but if you intend to keep that setup for a longtime its a good investment just leave some slack so if you move around your speakers , 5.1 cabling is in place and its only matter of switching speakers.

Kdja

ShaneOC · 17-07-2002 4:44pm

Thanks kdja

Just the information I was looking for. Have you any specific suggestions for the type of cables that I should use. I will probably get some conduit to allow a bit of movement for the cables.

Kali · 17-07-2002 11:54pm

right heres my advice (for what its worth)...

its dependent on the size of your tv now, but the fronts and centre shouldn't be any hassle there at all, choosing the rears is the main problem, either proper bipolar surrounds sitting about 3 feet back (from the rear wall) on either side wall or standard speakers sitting in each corner... the latter will be a lot more discrete but less dramatic sounding (plus corners aren't the best places for speakers, adds a lot of bass).

i'd run a conduit up the 14' foot and across the top of the door and down the other side.. presuming you have the seating inbetween the back gallery doors and side doors.

go for a large enough conduit as well.. 1.5"x0.5" at least, to allow for quality speaker cable (and it will make replacing and pulling a lot easier, standard speaker cable doesn't run though them that nicely due to the rubber coating so ask for specialised stuff), .. as depending on your actual a/v setup you may want up to 3 cables running through that pipe (two surround and one rear effects).

either way your looking at about 34' for the right rear and about 20' for the left rear.. depending on if you want a wall jack for the speakers behind the tv or just run the cable straight out to the amp.. (the former is much neater and professional).

KdjaCL · 18-07-2002 12:54pm

just to add make sure all the cables are the same length.
ie by your setup one of the rear speakers will be closer to the TV than the other make sure the cables ar all equal in length.
like rear say 15 feet each and L/R are 5 ft (just an example)
go into richer sounds and get cable there ,i got mine there think it was $40 for 100 feet (well worth it )

kdja

Kali · 18-07-2002 3:26pm

hmm should have thought of that..
though wouldn't curling the speaker cable up cause more electrical interference (and possible distortion) than the percieved difference in quality between the lengths?
more an electrical/physics type question though i think..

KdjaCL · 19-07-2002 10:41am

My cable is of equal length but i laid it out with furtur preferences so it kinda doubles up on its self to reduce interference.

kdja

20-07-2002 8:15am

My cables are also of equal lenght and laid under a thick carpet, with no kinks and no quality/distortion problems.
mm

ozpass · 26-07-2002 10:33am

The largest problem you could face is with mains cabling installed in the wall. IEE standards ensure that all mains cabling is routed at right angles to the floor and not diagonally across the wall. This might cause a problem if your speaker cable (running horizontally) crosses a ring main feed to the room (running vertically) as in this configuration magnetic fields generated at 50Hz by the mains supply will cause interference with your speaker cable. There are debates as to whether it's an audible problem or not but in a really hot system like you seem to be planning

there'll be a difference between matching L & R channels which you'll notice.

It's no different to what you'd experience from a jumble of cables on the floor (like my setup) but there's less likelihood of of 90 degree intersect in this scenario.

ShaneOC · 26-07-2002 11:07am

Hi all,

Thanks for all your advice. I have attached the latest plan for the electrical layout of the room. The two rears are in the corners on the left. Not sure about the left speaker being up in that corner but I'll wire it anyway.

How important is it to have the wire runs the same length?

Does anyone know where I could get my hands on wall jacks for behind the amp?

ozpass · 26-07-2002 12:16pm

I must confess, I haven't actually searched for the stuff you'd need, but as a general rule if electrons pass through it, cpc sell it, so try here:

http://www.cpc.co.uk

ShaneOC · 26-07-2002 1:14pm

Originally posted by ozpass
I must confess, I haven't actually searched for the stuff you'd need, but as a general rule if electrons pass through it, cpc sell it, so try here:

http://www.cpc.co.uk

Unfortunately the catalogue bit is not working.

ozpass · 26-07-2002 1:25pm

Sorry! Should've checked it after all. They're based in the UK but if you can get them to send you a catalogue (size and weight of encyclopaedia brittanica) it's a very useful thing to have.

Alternatives are Maplin Electronics http://www.maplin.co.uk or RS Components http://rswww.com (both of these are UK based as well, I'm afraid).

What connector types are you considering using? There's no reason you couldn't use mains type plugs, but you'd have to be EXTRA EXTRA careful no one mistook your speaker as 'active' components and plugged 'em into a real mains socket :eek:

ShaneOC · 26-07-2002 2:30pm

Ha ha. Maplins is also down at the moment.

I am not sure what type of connectors I will use but it will definately not be mains type. The potential for stupidity would be too much.

ShaneOC · 26-07-2002 2:48pm

I would be hoping to get a plate with two of the attached connectors built in. This would then allow me to select which speaker is set up as front left/right and rear left/right, i.e. I could move the TV into the bay and use the bottom two speakers as left and right.

Occidental · 26-07-2002 2:58pm

Farnell (farnell.com) and Radionics(radionics.ie) who are part of RS Components both do sockets and jacks of various quality. Sites can be a bit of a pig to navigate, but the catalogues will show you everything you want.

28-07-2002 2:49pm

Originally posted by ShaneOC
How important is it to have the wire runs the same length?

Depending on the lenght of the run,you would have a longer delay on the left/right rear/front.
Plus for the sensitive ear, the shorter the cable run, the better the sound quality,equal lenght's just mean rear and front left and rights are all getting the sound in the same sequence-but in truth, a lot depends on what speakers/amp etc you have.
mm

Kali · 28-07-2002 10:21pm

Originally posted by madman

hmm should have thought of that..
though wouldn't curling the speaker cable up cause more electrical interference (and possible distortion) than the percieved difference in quality between the lengths?
more an electrical/physics type question though i think..

Originally posted by madman

Depending on the lenght of the run,you would have a longer delay on the left/right rear/front.

hmm as i originally thought.. speaker cable length isn't that important..

http://home.att.net/~rfowkes/WireLengthTimeDelay.html

To make this point, let's assume your ears are always within ½ inch of some nominal location everything you listen to your audio system. This would represent a phase shift that would be equivalent to having one speaker cable 3,156 ft. longer than the other speaker cable

29-07-2002 9:26am

Originally posted by Kali

hmm as i originally thought.. speaker cable length isn't that important..

http://home.att.net/~rfowkes/WireLengthTimeDelay.html

When I've time I'll search the web for a link to counter that argument......but I doubt I'll have the time:D
point taken though
mm

ShaneOC · 29-07-2002 9:46am

I have read through the article and have decided that I agree with the author. His logical arguements were really well thought out and put together expertly.

The fact that it saves me money is totally irrelevant.

ozpass · 29-07-2002 9:55am

Assuming that your speakers will accept them, I totally recommend using gold plated banana plugs over spring activated 'clamp type' connectors. It's debatable whether you'd detect the difference in different cable lengths to each speaker, but the degradation in quality from corroded-copper, shoddily contacted connections will be pretty apparent.

daveg · 29-07-2002 1:03pm

Hey ShaneOC... was in the same situation about 3 months ago.. We built our own house so when drawing up the plans I told my GF she could pic the paint ect.. but the living room was mine. I have nearly the same layout as your except the firplace is on the left hand wall. I have the TV where your fireplace is.. My advice is get the speaker cable (it will cost you a fotune as you will need a lot) routed under the plaster with a congute. Consider sending wires up to the bedroom/kitchen ect so that you can later setup a switching system for your speakers. Really good tip here route an extra cable for a 3rd and 4th rear speaker for DD 6.1 surround. Also make sure you leave provision for cable (sky digital ect) for each room in the house.

My best advice to anyone would be if there is anything you think you may do in the future WIRE FOR IT NOW.. when the house is being built as it is a bitch to wire afterwards.

Also shaneoc (I dont think I need to tell you this) take into account wiring for your sky digital - especilly if you have a UK and Irish decoder - but I dont think I need to tell you that

I think you advised me of the same 3 months ago. If you need any other advise send me a pm

One other thing if you havnt bought your rear speakers consider the Mission 77ds (7ds new model). Dipole speakers and have a range of mouting positions so your not so restricted.

ShaneOC · 29-07-2002 1:54pm

Hi daveg,

Thanks for the advice. I have already planned on putting the speaker cables in place before the plastering is done. There is an outline of the living room electrical layout in on of my earlier posts in this thread.

I am not going to bother with DD 6.1. I have DD5.1 at the moment at it is more than enough. You have to draw the line somewhere, I suppose, and I am drawing it at 5 speakers, plus the sub-woofer. My DVD doesn't do DTS so when I upgrade that I should get another jump in quality. I will be using the Sony HTK475 for my home cinema needs, the speakers that come with it are small but they pack a fair old punch.

The cable layout for sky digital has been planned, checked and double checked ages ago. See attachment.

daveg · 31-07-2002 11:45am

Shaneoc most new amps are going towards DD 6.1 - this will become a standard format eventually (same as 5.1) so there maybe a chance you will upgrade at a later stage. My advice would be if there is any chance that you will upgrade at some stage wire for it now... Its a 100 times more hastle/expence to do it after you have plastered.

You seem to have provided ample setup for the sky setup

Never doubted it lol

Speaker Positions

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