United we stand?

Hairy Homer

Among my junk mail this morning is a newsletter from an ‘Intellectual Property Patent and trade mark firm’ which contains this doozy.

‘A firm in the UK, Rygrange Limited, applied to register a trade mark, UNITED, for bottled beers and drinks. Manchester United Football Club filed an opposition to this mark claiming that….because of its world-wide fame and reputation in the field of football and the fact that it was known as ‘United’, there was a likelihood of confusion in the minds of the public if this rival mark was permitted.

This cut no ice with the Hearing Officer in the UK Patent Office who concluded that the distinctive nature of the club’s trade mark lay in its totality and not just the word ‘United’ which is used by many other clubs. (In essence, Man U was claiming exclusive rights to the word ‘United’ in isolation).

Even if Rygrange were to print the word UNITED on a red label, the club did not have trade mark registration for the colour red, moreover, many other football clubs use the same colour.’

Well played the UK Patent Office say I.

Why do people feel emotionally attached to this bunch of brand-peddling corporate whores? Truly, Manchester United supporters from around the world are the new peasantry of the 21st century. And self-determined ones at that.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Hairy Homer

Why do people feel emotionally attached to this bunch of brand-peddling corporate whores? Truly, Manchester United supporters from around the world are the new peasantry of the 21st century. And self-determined ones at that.

isnt this piece more about MUFC rather than its fans?

BKtje

I'm a Man U fan tbh and i agree with you that move was a bit stupid.
However to call us the peasantry of the 21st century is errrr a slightly ignorant view imo. That kinda thing makes you seem kinda jealous or something. Im sure thats not how you meant to portray yourself

Blitzkrieger

It was Roy Keane himself bringing the court case was it? Giggs? Scholes? If you took your head out of your ass for a while you might realise what we really love about United.

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger
It was Roy Keane himself bringing the court case was it? Giggs? Scholes? If you took your head out of your ass for a while you might realise what we really love about United.

You love United because you love Roy Keane? Were you a Notts Forest supporter before that? Or maybe even Cobh Ramblers? If you were, I might have some respect for you.

If you're saying you only support teams on merit, then you should be an Arsenal fan at the moment. They are demonstrably and verifiably better than United right now. Or, if you want to cast your aspirations further afield, you should be a Real Madrid supporter. Best team in Europe by miles.

But there must be some other deeper more worthy reason why people identify with teams. Otherwise, why would anybody support Stockport? Or Tranmere? Or even Ireland?

If sport becomes simply a meritocracy, fuelled by money alone and stripped of any romantic and emotional factors it will lose its meaning. Any bloody fool can support Manchester United. (Or Liverpool or Arsenal) All you have to do is buy the shirt. That sucks money, enthusiasm and support away from smaller teams all around the world and you're left with a small group of mercenary behemoths fighting it out for the big titles every season.

Boring.

Note, I do not deny that United are a fine team. Of course they are. Or that you have no right to support them. Of course you do. It's not your obligations I question.

Only your taste and values.

My question, which I repeat, is what is the reason to feel such an emotional attachment to such a globalised corporate monstrosity that is Manchester United?

darthmise

Originally posted by Hairy Homer

My question, which I repeat, is what is the reason to feel such an emotional attachment to such a globalised corporate monstrosity that is Manchester United?

Ah, maybe because you've supported them since you were a child, before PLC and TV deals ruined the game.

It's not just a Man Utd phenomenon, all the clubs are going to have to follow suite eventually. The clubs will need external income to survive.

I'm a Man Utd fan, and though its hard to be proud about it at times when you see Man Utd Whisky, and Man Utd Insurance advertised, i still love the club.
Are you a football fan? Describe to me why you love your club. Its a hrad thing to put into words.

I follow Man Utd - the 11 players on the pitch every Saturday at three o'clock. Thats what I love about the club. Seeing them win, and win well. You see a "globalised corporate monstrosity", i see footballing Mecca, and when in full flight, an unstoppable colossus, full of passion and history.

Giggsy, Giggsy, Giggsy.


Jasus..., Tears in my eyes as i write this.
Is there a "Most Empassioned Speech" award at these boards ceromonies?

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by darthmise




I'm a Man Utd fan, and though its hard to be proud about it at times when you see Man Utd Whisky, and Man Utd Insurance advertised, i still love the club.

I follow Man Utd - the 11 players on the pitch every Saturday at three o'clock. Thats what I love about the club. Seeing them win, and win well. You see a "globalised corporate monstrosity", i see footballing Mecca, and when in full flight, an unstoppable colossus, full of passion and history.

You sound like a man who would put his pain where his exultation is if the situation required, and that's fair enough. You could yet need such fortitude. I can remember when Man Utd became a second division team about 30 years ago (Denis Law's last kick in league football confining United to the drop).

Are you a football fan? Describe to me why you love your club. Its a hrad thing to put into words.

Some connection other than watching Match of the Day or reading about Posh and Becks in Hello! magazine.

I've been such a vagabond that I've never really had a club. I love the Irish team but not enough to shell out 350 euro a year for three matches. (which is roughly what it works out to).

Ah but, they will say, you get all the English premiership games as well. Well, I've no interest in these globalised corporate behemoths, and I just can't see how reinforcing Irish people into this mindset is going to benefit the local game at all. All the enthusiasm that has been generated by the team's recent performances is going to benefit Liverpool, United, Leeds and Arsenal (go on! How many Irish people do you know who 'follow' a team other than those four?) and I think that's very sad.

Having lived in England for many years, I know real people who passionately support smaller teams like Charlton, Gillingham, Crystal Palace (you can guess the region I lived in eh?). How must they feel when they see a load of pasty-faced Irish gits in Arsenal shirts flying over on Ryanair to sing 'You're **** and you know you are' at them?

Could they perhaps conclude that Irish 'fans' of their larger clubs are a bunch of self deluded pretentious peasants with no sense of the total commitment needed to truly 'support' a team through thick and thin?

Couldn't blame them if they did.

I'm just amazed at the contrast between the full blooded passionate support Irish people give their national team through thick and thin and the dismissive arrogance many of the same people portray when claiming the likes of the big four English clubs as their own.

Show me a season ticket holder at Loftus Road or Priestfields and I'll show you a real fan. As for Old Trafford incumbents: Didn't Roy Keane himself have something to say about the Prawn sandwiches?

BKtje

It is very easy to see that you have a kind of hatred for the English Premiership and the Irish people who support clubs there.

I started supporting Man U a long time ago and tbh i started supporting them cos me best m8 did and he introduced me to them. Over the years i have come to respect and enjoy the way Man U play their football and a love for the club has grown in me. I may not go to their home matches and i aint a season ticket holder as there is no way in hell that i can make their home games week in week out because, surprise surprise, i like in Dublin and simply cant afford to. I watch them whenever i can and feel the joy at winning and the disappointment of defeat.
Why cant you support your team if you only watch them on Match of the Day or read about them in the papers?

Does this make me any less of a fan to these season ticket holders? Perhaps, but if every fan was identical it would make for quite a boring world would it not?
(supporting smaller teams is all well and good, and i do have a small love for Stevenage Boro but to get any information on them is difficult at best.)

The press introduced many Irish people to the Premiership but the press cant force you to support a club. That usually comes from respect, admiration or glory hunting. Take your pick.

Bateman

>you might realise what we really love about United.

Nobody has done it yet. When a player from yout team scores a goal and runs over and you get to hug him, thats what its all about. When you get pissed on a bus home from a 6 hour away journey when the game's been called off. Thats it as well. Sitting in a pub and cheering on your heroes in red is not what its all about. And it never will be. Because the day that becomes the norm, we (people who put money into IRISH football) can all call it a day.:mad:

Jake

I would be one of those who follow a team from across the water (not MAN U or the others mentioned but none the less a team from across the water)
I actually went to several LOI games some years back but havnt been back since and dont intend going again!
Nothing to do with the quality of football on offer (Im a Celtic fan so I can hardly give out about the quality of football on offer ) but everything to do with the fans.

I believe the lowest form of live spawned by this little Island follow league of Ireland teams!
However I feel I must qualify that statement by saying that Iv only encountered (in general) fans of the Dublin area teams as they are the closest to where I live.
Such a pack of arragont **** I have never come across in my life!
I felt no passion for the teams as I unfortunatly had to listen to 90mins of ****e (usually from guys in their 30s and 40s) gotta pity their wives!
How can you support a team when you dont/cant edentify with it?

Blitzkrieger

Originally posted by Hairy Homer


You love United because you love Roy Keane? Were you a Notts Forest supporter before that? Or maybe even Cobh Ramblers? If you were, I might have some respect for you.

Then I'd be a whore.

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
If you're saying you only support teams on merit, then you should be an Arsenal fan at the moment. They are demonstrably and verifiably better than United right now.

I didn't say that and no they're not! Incidentally Arsenal can tribute their Irish fan base to Dave O' Leary - a former Irish captain that earned them a lot of followers.

Originally posted by darthmise

I follow Man Utd - the 11 players on the pitch every Saturday at three o'clock. Thats what I love about the club. Seeing them win, and win well

That's what I didn't say because I rarely take the time to go into detail.

Originally posted by Hairy Homer

But there must be some other deeper more worthy reason why people identify with teams. Otherwise, why would anybody support Stockport? Or Tranmere? Or even Ireland?

I started following Man Utd because of Roy Keane and Dennis Irwin. Two local Corkmen who I'm sure every schoolboy dreamed of emulating. I've since grown to love Man Utd and even if Roy Keane wasn't there, I couldn't change my allegiance. When United win I'm happy - when United lose, I lose. Even though we didn't win anything this season I still wanted to see United every game because we played some brilliant football (Spurs anyone?).

I've never been to the Theater of Dreams because of one simple reason : money. I'm currently umemployed (jnr developer anyone? ) and could never afford to go. If I won the lotto tonight you can bet the first thing I'd buy would be a season ticket.

Do I love Man Utd plc? Do I love Man Utd Inusrance? Do I love Man Utd Mortages? Do I love Man Utd Finace, whisky, aftershavem deoderant, cups, flasks, etc., etc., etc.? Of course not. I love United.

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
It is very easy to see that you have a kind of hatred for the English Premiership and the Irish people who support clubs there.

Hatred is the wrong word. And I am drawing a distinction between a side's footballing merits, which the premiership clubs definitely have, and the fact that these in themselves do not mean that they are entitled to your support.

For example, last September I went to Lansdowne Road to see Holland play Ireland in a vital World Cup qualifier. Throughout the course of the match the Dutch team had in attack the combined talents of Marc Overmars, Ruud van Nistlerooy, Patrick Kluivert, Pierre Van Hooijdonk, Boudewijn Zenden and Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink.

And we had Richard Dunne.......and we kept them scoreless.

Doubtless the purists might say that it was a pity that the team with all the superstars lost. (Sunday Tribune sports hacks have been making similar pious noises about the world cup being devalued because of the early exits of Argentina, France and Portugal.) Me? I thought it was one of the best sporting occasions I have ever witnessed. Up there with Stuttgart 88, Ireland 1 England 0 Razor Houghton thanking you!!

I dare, nay double dare, the likes of Paul Howard or Davey Hannigan to get up in an Irish pub and say that it was bad for football that a team containing Barnes, Lineker, Hoddle and Robson lost to a team containing Chris Morris and Mick McCarthy. They'd be filleted alive and no jury in the land would convict their assailants. !!!!

(supporting smaller teams is all well and good, and i do have a small love for Stevenage Boro but to get any information on them is difficult at best.)

I can help you there. By an amazing coincidence, I once worked with a season ticket holder at that mighty organ. Try www.stevenageborofc.com and you'll get all the info you need.

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger



Then I'd be a whore.

No you wouldn't. You'd be following your heart. Or at least the focus of your affections.

I didn't say that and no they're not!

Excuse me! Which team currently holds the Premiership Trophy and FA Cup? That's what I mean by verifiably better at the moment.

darthmise

Arsenal scored in every game this season.
They didn't loose a single away game.
They only lost three to United 6 (or was it 7)

I'm sorry but as much as i hate those bastards, that is head and shoulders above every one else.


I don't doubt for a second that the fans of any club that live in the town of their club are far more passionate about they're club , than an irishman travelling across to see them play.
I was not born and reared on football, but i've loved Man Utd since i was 8 years old.
And if i was to be honest, a part of me loved it when we won nothing last season. Its hard to get excited about winning the league when its your third in a row. Its something i miss from being a kid. Having liverpool to hate when they won everything.


I can't wait for this year, your going to have 3 teams absolutely determined to win it out. Its going to be better than last season i think, and last year was unreal.

BKtje

That Holland match was a classic. From the depths od despair after the sending off , to the elation of scoring. Holland lost that day thanks to crummy managing and a dodgy performance from the players. But it was a great occasion.

I also agree with you that this World Cup was an amazing event. I loved the fact that some of the big names went out as it left the door open for the underdog.

And I am drawing a distinction between a side's footballing merits, which the premiership clubs definitely have, and the fact that these in themselves do not mean that they are entitled to your support.

That is true. The sides footballing merits alone dont deserve the outright support from any fan. However, a liking for their playing styles quite often turns into support when a few other factors are added. Wether this be the players they have, the rivalry between ur team and ur mates or the fact that they gave a million pounds to charity (among a lot of others).
TBH it doesnt really matter imo what reason you support your club as long as it you get enjoyment and you have some dedication. (ie no glory hunting supporters).

Not many people will of course be able to match the passion of the local fans seing as it is their local club but this aint a negatie point as supporting ur club should be about giving what you can afford to give and not to living up to others expectations of what you should be doign with your support.

Thanks for the link btw Hairy Homer, for some reason i never even thought about looking up their homepage.

Blitzkrieger

Originally posted by Hairy Homer


Excuse me! Which team currently holds the Premiership Trophy and FA Cup? That's what I mean by verifiably better at the moment.

Which team currently holds Veron, Keane, Beckham, Giggs, RVN, Scholes,....... Compare them to (I have no idea how to spell Freddie's surname) Veria, Henry, etc and who comes out on top? I always like to talk about a complete fantasy test called the "Best Day" test. United on their best day would beat Arsenal on their best day 6-1. In the entire history of the premiership there's only ever been one team better than United, and we beat Newcastle that year because they had injuries.

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by darthmise

I can't wait for this year, your going to have 3 teams absolutely determined to win it out. Its going to be better than last season i think, and last year was unreal.

Oh Boy!!! Three teams with a chance!!! Out of 20. The league can't go on like that.

Even the Yanks, that most commercially sensitive nation of sports people realise that you cannot have a situation where two or three rich clubs corner the market in talent because of their wealth and remain champions in perpetuity. It ultimately destroys the league.

So they have a draft system in their sports, in which the worst performing team of the year gets first pick of the new crop of talent coming out of the colleges. So ultimately, the teams should even up over time.

Look at Scotland. I think it's only been 19 occasions since the league was formed in the 19th century that a club outside of the Rangers/Celtic duopoly has won the title. And now the big clubs say the country is too small for them.

So what to do?

Do you want to see the American style system come in here? (There's a subject for a huge long debate) Briefly, I would say no because it's too inflexible and only really works in isolation - if you can regard a country the size of America as isolated.

Or do you want to tolerate a system where the ultra wealthy clubs control everything and therefore realistically fans have a choice of two or three teams to support?

Or do you want to do something else? Like support a local team, leave the big clubs to their own bedrock local support, and experience the thrill of seeing your team occasionally get to take on the powerful clubs in real competition - not just pre season friendlies?

I wish the Scandinavian clubs well in European competition this year. They have shown the way to go with their emphasis on building up local talent through their own leagues. Sure their best players go to play abroad, but that still leaves plenty to populate the likes of Brondby, Rosenborg, Malmo etc.

Fair play to them. If they can do it, why can't we?