Linux To Run On Microsoft XBox ?

jArgHA

Just came across this article on The Register
It seems an anonymous donor is offering $200,000 to get Linux running on the Microsoft XBox (legally) before January 1, 2003. Here's the URL for the article, http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25993.html

The Linux.org website also have some info on the competition:
Linux.org

Caesar_Bojangle

I bet it was microsoft:D, or someone with a grudge against them (which is just about everyone).

I couldnt see bill gates being too happy with a version of linux legally running on the xbox.

phobos

I couldn't be MS doing this! - Why would they?, what benefit would Linux running on their console bring to them. If anything they would have some trimmed version of XP, but whatever OS it would be, it would definately be one of theirs.

What kind of hardware is in the XBox anyway. I'm just intersted, to see if it's possible.

Do we have any business heads in here, that could present their ideas as to how a project like this could be beneficial to the originator. Thinking about it myself, all I can see is that people will now have the option of running a free OS on their consoles, but that IMO, is only another reason for people to buy the XBox. So that would sound like supporting the machine. But for linux to be released on the console that decision is up to MS, and I can't see that happening. I mean this guy/corp that is offering the money, can't mainstream this project unless the guy/corp is MS themselves.

Christ this just doesn't make sense

;-phobos-)

BKtje

it could then be used as a gateway or dsl router or something i heard.

phobos

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
it could then be used as a gateway or dsl router or something i heard.

You could do the electronics & software yourself for cheaper. I still don't think that's it. A router isn't the most sophisticated piece of software, you could have that run on an embedded platform.

I've written CGI programs that ran on a web server the size of a €2 coin, which just plugged in to an evaluation board with an ethernet interface. The cost of that was only around €70 approx. But to a client it looked like I was connecting to a server hosted by a PC.

;-phobos-)

l3rian

i think it could be MS, the xbox is not selling well and any interest in their major loss-making console is what they want, i think when MS released the xbox they tried to distance themselfs from the geeky image MS has, but ironically it could just be these tweeking geeks that keeps it afloat

Shinji

You could do the electronics & software yourself for cheaper. I still don't think that's it. A router isn't the most sophisticated piece of software, you could have that run on an embedded platform.

The Xbox is a very nice spec for a webserver or cluster box. It's effectively a P3-700 with 64mb of RAM (some shared for graphics but that's not an issue for a linux box) and an 8gb hard drive, with USB ports, a 10/100 ethernet port and all the trimmings, in a compact case (by PC standards) for under £200. That's VERY attractive for anyone setting up a low-priority server or a mess-around box on their LAN.

The guy funding this has nothing to gain from it. He's an amazingly rich software developer for whom $200,000 isn't worth getting out of bed - this is being funded because of his own interests rather than for a commercial reason.

MS *hate* the idea of Linux - or any other OS - running on Xbox. The math is simple; Microsoft lose about $250 on every Xbox they sell right now (that's off the top of my head, it may not be quite that much but it's in the region of hundreds of dollars) and they try to make that money back on game sales. Every game that sells - be it first or third party - has a licence fee that goes straight back to Microsoft; this is in the region of $12. As you can see, people need to buy a lot of games right now for MS to make back their initial money sink in the console; as such, they lost about $700 million on Xbox this financial year, and will probably lose over a billion dollars on it next year. The idea is to make this back over the course of the five years of the consoles lifespan.

However, this all gets messed up if people start using the Xbox for linux. You can't have an Xbox that's used for Linux *and* plays games, as far as I can tell; after all, installing Linux on it will mean hacking the BIOS and altering the way the hard drive works. Effectively, then, you'll have people going out and buying an Xbox - thus costing MS $250 - bringing it home and running Linux on it as a server, and not buying ANY games thus never paying back MS' investment in the console.

You can see why they'd be a little annoyed at the idea of subsidising people's linux hardware...

quozl

i think the current aim is to have a menu on boot to allow you to choose to load the linux kernel or a game (and to keep the copy-protection on games to avoid breaking dmca). Can't remember the url, but linux for the xbox on sourceforge is the most advanced attempt so far I think. They have it booting the kernel and using fatX filesystem.
It's a great idea. It'd make me a perfect gateway here instead of my clunky old p166.
quozl

phobos

Personally I didn't realise that MS were loosing out on the hardware, and trying to make it back on software sales. The person behind this, obviously does. Personally I don't hate MS. I hate their market strategies, and they way the bend the rules using software tatics, forcing people to make decisions, that only end up supporting the giant. I am for anything that opposes this TBH, this is a fine legal example, and is a real slap in the face to MS, using their child against them.

You see the underground world of pirating games is not a very professional way to bring loss to a company like MS. But through hacking intelligently, we can legally find a way to turn the tables. This is exactly what is being done here. I'm not saying that this alone is enough to do some serious damage, but it's nice to see that the average Joe (with a good idea, and some capital) can put the shiz up Microsoft.

;-phobos-)

Shinji

i think the current aim is to have a menu on boot to allow you to choose to load the linux kernel or a game (and to keep the copy-protection on games to avoid breaking dmca).

That's the stated aim, but I honestly can't see how on earth they'll manage it given how the Xbox works on boot. I suppose it's theoretically possible, but not without breaking the DMCA - I don't think Linux will EVER run on an Xbox which hasn't been chipped, simply because unchipped Xboxen won't run unsigned code, and what are the hopes of MS agreeing to sign Linux binaries for Xbox, eh?

chernobyl

Originally posted by phobos
Personally I didn't realise that MS were loosing out on the hardware, and trying to make it back on software sales.

Thats is how the console industry works.
Even Nintendo are accepting a marginal loss with every Cube sold.

Shinji

Ninty's loss is so small that they make it up with the sale of a single game - once you've bought a cube and one game, they're marginally into profit. Given that the tie ratio for the Cube is about 3:1 in most territories, that means they're making about $30 off every customer in clear profit... Not bad for a brand new and very hi-spec console.

The PS2 no longer makes a loss on hardware sales, because the cost of manufacturing has fallen faster than the price of the console.

The Xbox however loses a few hundred dollars on every system sold, and MS have miscalculated badly - the manufacturing costs of the console won't fall as fast as they did for Sony or Nintendo, because MS rely on third party components from NVIDIA and Intel, which won't fall in price or be as flexible as the custom chipsets in the Cube or PS2.

Example; the single biggest cost saving Sony managed on PS2 was combining the graphics chip and the main CPU together into one chip, a few months ago. That knocked a lot of money out of the manufacturing costs of the PS2. Xbox will NEVER be able to do that; can you imagine NVIDIA and Intel, sworn rivals in many areas, agreeing to put a Pentium and a GeForce onto one piece of silicon? I somehow doubt it....

chernobyl

Apparently Maxtor have a new HDD for the Xbox which is significantly quiter, faster and cheaper which will aid somewhat.

Integrating the GPU and CPU into one is unlikely (maybe in an AMD/nVidia box) but MS should certainly be aiming for a completely integrated system on the motherboard which im sure would save some of the CPU costs into the bargain.

MS probably is the only company who could sustain this console and if they commit to like they say...who knows?