Detention of mentally ill

eth0_

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_615533.html?menu=news.latestheadlines.uknews

What does everyone think of this? I agree with it on principle, if people are a danger to themselves and others, someone should have to take responsibility. I think the British government are now paying for their mistake that was 'Care in the community' where they released thousands of mentally ill people back into the care of their families, which was a very stupid move on their part.

Victor

To suggest that the care of mental patients in the community is wrong, simply demonstrates an ignorance of the their needs. We are not talking about the Hannibal Lecters of the world.

Without wanting to be flippant, think of all the people on boards.ie with sufferring from stress, depression, obsessive / compulsive behaviors and split personalities.

eth0_

Do you even know what the care in the community program was?
My sister is a social worker in Northern Ireland and she has told me about the people she visits who were turfed out of the care homes they were in, they're incapable of living on their own, they're quite seriously mentally ill and some are given their own flats and let live alone, and they can't cope and usually end up on the streets sleeping rough.

THAT is what i'm talking about. Not people who have relatively non threatening illness'.

Keeks

Originally posted by Victor
of all the people on boards.ie with sufferring from ......... obsessive / compulsive behaviors and split personalities.

Thats bubbles right! Sorry couldn't resist.

But seriously, the whole aera of mental health is a grey aera. I haven't seen the health bill in question (british one isn't it), but there should be stronger safeguards and better medical treatment and diagnosis availbe to ppl who are loony..oops.. I mean mentally ill.

pro_gnostic_8

A month ago I saw the consequence of Care In The Community -- an elderly man in his pitiful squalor lying vulnerable and helpless in the street devoid of all human dignity. His rescue was accomplished by the compassion of passers-by and Garda transportation.

I'm with Eth0 on this. How many mentally ill sufferers (after being discharged from hospital) have been evicted by their next-of-kin after a coupla weeks due to various difficulties? I do not apportion any blame whatsoever on the families for this...... attending to the needs of a seriously ill mental sufferer is beyond the capabilities of most families.

I can only hope that if ever I develop dementia or some other disilibating illness I would not be left to fend for myself on the uncaring streets of this country. I would want the essential care that can only be provided in a specialisation hospital unit.

bonkey

Originally posted by eth0_
if people are a danger to themselves and others, someone should have to take responsibility.

Do you even know what the care in the community program was?
My sister is a social worker in Northern Ireland and she has told me about the people she visits who were turfed out of the care homes they were in, they're incapable of living on their own,

If you look at what the bill was called, you might realise that the whole aim was that these people would not be left "living on their own", but rather that the community would shoulder some of the responsibility.

This patently did not happen, but it does not necessarily follow that the best solution is to lock them up somewhere.

An ex-neighbour of mine had an accident at one point which left him partially brain damaged. He was incapable of looking after himself. By your apparent stance, he should have been locked away in some home.

Instead, he was given accomodation, weekly (or bi-weekly) visits from social services. Also - and here's the mad part - some people from the community stopped by every day or two to make sure he was ok, and to give him a hand for maybe 1/2 an hour or so with anything he needed. These "compassionate visits" didnt start until he was on his own for several weeks, at which point he was living in absolute squallor. Within a few weeks of them starting, not only was he living in much better conditions, but he made significant improvements in his condition. Who can say why definitively, but its quite possibly because he could see people caring about him and this "lifted" him somewhat.

Yes, there are some individuals who are genuinely dangerous to themselves and others, but many, many more are simply in need of a bit of a helping hand. If we dont give them that hand, then yes, they are a danger to themselves.

So - which should we do - pay taxes so that the government will hire people to look after these unfortunate individuals for us, or be just a little bit more compassionate, and actually help them a bit ourselves.

Sometimes I think our "best" solutions are really our "most expedient" ones.

jc

Keeks

An article in the Irish examiner appears today with a relevant story on the subject.

Hundreds of prisoners ‘have mental handicap’


By Carl O’Brien, Political Correspondent
HUNDREDS of people who suffer from a mental handicap or learning disability are behind bars.
A shock report which the Government has refused to publish indicates that almost one third of the prison population are intellectually disabled.

The numbers, the highest recorded anywhere in the world, raise serious questions over the policy of jailing people with special needs when the Government is failing to provide adequate services, say campaigners.

Governor of Mountjoy Prison, John Lonergan, said lack of services in the community meant many with special needs were ending up in jail.

“I’ve no hesitation in saying it’s a bigger problem now than it ever was before,” he said. “We have to stop these people going into the bloody system….I’m flabbergasted at the numbers of families affected.”

The report, obtained by the Irish Examiner, involved the assessment of prisoners in every jail in the country and found 28.8% of tested prisoners scored below 70 in IQ tests, indicating a significant degree of mental handicap. An average person has an IQ of around 100.

This figure means the proportion of intellectually disabled people in prison is around 10 times greater than in the general community.

The study was commissioned by the Government two years ago but it has refused to make the findings public or release it under the Freedom of Information Act.

It is understood the Department of Justice has disputed the results but an international expert on the criminal justice system told the Irish Examiner it was the most extensive study of its kind ever carried out.

“It’s the best study I’ve ever seen,” said Professor Susan Hayes of the University of Sydney.

“Researchers had the co-operation of all the corrective services and went to every jail and did a random sample of the jails. It was really good methodology.”

The figures indicate Ireland has the highest rate of incarceration for disabled people in the world, with figures bigger than similar studies in the US, Australia and New Zealand.

But experts say it is difficult to compare the countries as the prison systems vary in how they treat those with special needs.

Campaign groups say those with low IQ who end up in jail suffer from conditions such as attention deficit disorder (ADD), autism or other disorders.

eth0_

Originally posted by bonkey




If you look at what the bill was called, you might realise that the whole aim was that these people would not be left "living on their own", but rather that the community would shoulder some of the responsibility.

This patently did not happen, but it does not necessarily follow that the best solution is to lock them up somewhere.

*sigh* You're not listening to what i'm saying, are you? I'm talking about those with dangerous psychotic illness' who won't take the anti-psychotic meds they need to control their actions (and which, in many cases, can't control them).

As far as I know Ireland never had a care in the community act, more like Ireland doesn't give a **** about the mentally ill here, there's very little support for them. I know some people who would be very dangerous indeed if they didn't take their medication, fortunately they do, it's those who refuse to take medication or aren't capable of taking it that need help.

Unfortunately, bonkey, we don't live in happy land as you seem to, and there are dangerous people out there, and I personally would rather they were being cared for than left to roam the street and be a danger to themselves and others.

bonkey

Originally posted by eth0_


*sigh* You're not listening to what i'm saying, are you? I'm talking about those with dangerous psychotic illness' who won't take the anti-psychotic meds they need to control their actions (and which, in many cases, can't control them).

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. Thats what I thought you were talking about initially, but in your second post you were referring to :

the people she visits who were turfed out of the care homes they were in, they're incapable of living on their own, they're quite seriously mentally ill and some are given their own flats and let live alone, and they can't cope and usually end up on the streets sleeping rough.

Here, you seemed to be more talking about people who couldnt care for themselves, as opposed to people who are actively dangerous.

Unfortunately, bonkey, we don't live in happy land as you seem to, and there are dangerous people out there, and I personally would rather they were being cared for than left to roam the street and be a danger to themselves and others.

And you accuse me of not reading what you wrote? I never said once that anyone who is dangerous should be left to roam the streets - I pointed out that people who are a danger to themselves because of their inability to live independantly can be cared for with only a small amount of effort on the part of the community.

People who are violently dangerous are a completely different issue, I agree. However, as I said, this didnt seem to be the direction you were taking when you were referring to your sister's work and people ending up "sleeping rough". Sleeping rough is not an indication that youre dangerous, but it is, in this context an indication that you are incapable of taking care of yourself.

cujimmy

Do you really understand the implications of this ? Westminster is considering a Mental Health Bill for England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. It proposes a single definition of mental illness and states, "Mental disorder means any disability or disorder of mind or brain which results in an impairment or disturbance of mental functioning".
This definition will enable the government to detain people who they classify as having "awkward personalities" but have committed no crime and at present are not classified as suffering from a mental illness. I know a lot of people some of them friends who would be described as having "awkward personalities" and I am sure most board users know of similar people. Now do you still think this bill is a good idea?

Victor

Originally posted by Victor
of all the people on boards.ie with sufferring from ......... obsessive / compulsive behaviors and split personalities.

Originally posted by Keeks
Thats bubbles right! Sorry couldn't resist.

No, I was actually thinking about a huge majority of people here. Tell me, is (fill in username) your real name or are you hiding behind it.