Time for a change of tactics ... maby?

212.2.179.66

I don't wan't to sound like im agains't IOFFL or the Boards here. But i was at a meeting tonight and some facts were raised. To put the outcome of it all blulntly. Eirocm win. They have succeded in everything they have set out to do. IOFFL have made no difference whatsoever in what they have set out to do 2 years on.
IOFFL have been pussyfooting about with lets take things behind closed doors and hope that things will happen. It didn't! or won't.

Tactics and support is needed really badly. At the moment there is none. There was 177 people at the meeting i attended tonight (ok small number) but 98% of them said is IOFFL too easy going....work behind the rest of everyone else and tell no-one what's going on. The Blackout was discussed in detail and again 99% of the people attending agreed that it was worthless becaouse of the lack of support. A lot of suggestions were made and supported. But i'm going to be honest here. I dont want to publist them here for fear of segretation / intimidation / insulting and lack of support from people on these boards. But from what i have seen.... Faith in IOFFL is at about 2%. It's time to do something or get out guys!....

Dangger

Get out of what exactly? The other fifty or so organisations looking out for the Irish Internet user? Good luck!

Spare us 212.....etc. etc. how can you help? Or can you help at all?

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Dangger
Get out of what exactly? The other fifty or so organisations looking out for the Irish Internet user? Good luck!

Spare us 212.....etc. etc.

Why are you soo predictive in your answer?.... Offence/Defence is wasted on me. Read what i just said. It's being said all over Ireland... like it or not! The sooner ye stop ignoreing it and face the facts the better. Cloud 9 is only 1 step above Cloud 8.... but how you got there in the first place i will never understand!? 172 out of 177 people said that IOFFL were and are ****E! and they came from a few organisations. ( like i said a small number) but i have to agree with them. Make IOFFL a place that every and i mean EVERY! person can come here and support them a place to be.... Now think how can u do that without being soo insulting?
Its not easy is it?

22.2.179.66

m1ke

sounds like a plant from eircom

Dangger

Thank m1ke, I knew there was a sinister motive behind the pizza van outside my house recenlty with the spinning radar on top!

212.2.179.66

Since this all began i have sat back and taken a back seat to what has been going on here. By Back seat i mean that while i myself did not want to get involver because of my position that still did not stop me from pointing people here to the IOFFL site and the Boards. I am truly ashamed as to what i have seen going on in here. I personally have directed people here to not only give support but to help in any way they could only to find that they have been insulted / picked upon / and outcasted. I will be honest with you i am angry with what i have seen and my faith in your organisation has gone. Like i have said i am ashamed to have pointed people i know personally in your direction.

212.2.179.66

I did not spell check this reply and...well. i don’t care any more ok

212.2.179.66

Dangger / m1ke thank you both for showing an example of the sorth of support that genunine people that come here to support IOFFL actually get.

212.2.179.66

Tellox

212,what excactly do you expect IrelandOFFLine to do? They dont excactly have a lot of cards to play, and without an official sponser such as esat, their voice isnt very well heard.

Because lets face facts, for every 1 IOffL'er, theres 50 people blinded by eircom's dancing rat.

and lets not forget the fact that IOffL is non-profit organization. maybe if everybody paid dave €10 a month, he'd be persuaded to buy ad space

stormkeeper

Tactics and support is needed really badly. At the moment there is none.

Well, even considering this... IOFFL have come a long way and you have to recognise that fact. As someone mentioned before in a previous thread, IOFFL have earned the respect of the media and the industry (even if one or 2 details are wrong, it's not the point). If IOFFL weren't respected, they could have been gone a long time ago, due to no one listening to them.

172 out of 177 people said that IOFFL were and are ****E!

Well, maybe instead of criticising them, they should help them out instead. It's all to easy to remember what a person (or organisation) hasn't done, as opposed to their accomplishments.

Make IOFFL a place that every and i mean EVERY! person can come here and support them a place to be....

Anyone can come here, it's just that they choose not to.

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Tizlox
212,what excactly do you expect IrelandOFFLine to do? They dont excactly have a lot of cards to play, and without an official sponser such as esat, their voice isnt very well heard.
Really?

Because lets face facts, for every 1 IOffL'er, theres 50 people blinded by eircom's dancing rat.
Instead of saying that let's turn it about? What can U do to stop them being blinded?

and lets not forget the fact that IOffL is non-profit organization. maybe if everybody paid dave €10 a month, he'd be persuaded to buy ad space

Already discussed / offered / and denied! by IOFFL ok?

212.2.179.66

stormkeeper

Originally posted by Tizlox
212,what excactly do you expect IrelandOFFLine to do? They dont excactly have a lot of cards to play, and without an official sponser such as esat, their voice isnt very well heard.

Because lets face facts, for every 1 IOffL'er, theres 50 people blinded by eircom's dancing rat.

and lets not forget the fact that IOffL is non-profit organization. maybe if everybody paid dave €10 a month, he'd be persuaded to buy ad space

I agree with this. Eircom's influence and hold is very strong, and with all the advertising they [Eircom] do, we're kind of left in the dark. I feel that that isn't right at all... Eircom should have realised ages ago that not offering a flat-rate internet service is wrong.

Attention Eircom/Government:
The way i see it (and most others), soon enough the whole world will have flat-rate, and we'll be a laughing stock... If whoever claims that this country is the E-Hub of Europe... Prove it! All these internet services can't be taken advantage of unless we have basic flat-rate.

::sighs:: it's getting too early in the morning for all of this

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Kennett
Tactics and support is needed really badly. At the moment there is none.

Well, even considering this... IOFFL have come a long way and you have to recognise that fact. As someone mentioned before in a previous thread, IOFFL have earned the respect of the media and the industry (even if one or 2 details are wrong, it's not the point). If IOFFL weren't respected, they could have been gone a long time ago, due to no one listening to them.

172 out of 177 people said that IOFFL were and are ****E!

Well, maybe instead of criticising them, they should help them out instead. It's all to easy to remember what a person (or organisation) hasn't done, as opposed to their accomplishments.

Make IOFFL a place that every and i mean EVERY! person can come here and support them a place to be....

Anyone can come here, it's just that they choose not to.

And why do they chose not too?

I did try to help but i ran out of excuses/answers? maby u can Honey Coat it better than i can? Pigs still fly dont they?

Tellox

Well 212, what do you propose IOffL actually do, keeping in mind they are not funded?

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Tizlox
Well 212, what do you propose IOffL actually do, keeping in mind they are not funded?

U must have missed my reply so here it is again

Already discussed / offered / and denied! by IOFFL ok?

212.2.179.66

stormkeeper

quote:

---

Already discussed / offered / and denied! by IOFFL ok?

---

When was it discussed and what were the reasons?


And why do they chose not too?

Not enough coverage, perhaps? Or maybe Eircom has a strong influence?

The way I see it (technically not my words), the whole country is being too complacent (I had a discussion about flat-rate and stuff at the centre where I'm doing my course). If we did something sooner, maybe Eircom wouldn't've gotten a hold.

So, instead of saying negative things about IOFFL, and thus making sure Eircom keep a foothold in their monopoly, they could either form another organisation, or help them out.

and lets not forget the fact that IOffL is non-profit organization. maybe if everybody paid dave €10 a month, he'd be persuaded to buy ad space

As it says here above, it's extremely hard to do many of the things Eircom can do, simply becaus they have the money and support, and we don't. I'm sure if IOFFL had enough funding, they'd be able to do a lot more.

Dustaz

IP, The last 3 threads you have started have been complaining about Ireland Offline. They have had zero constructive ideas in them.
I was going to lock this, but my curiosty is piqued. What was the meeting you were at? Who was attending?
Details please.

Lemming

Originally posted by 212.2.179.66

Tactics and support is needed really badly. At the moment there is none.
....

A lot of suggestions were made and supported. But i'm going to be honest here. I dont want to publist them here for fear of segretation / intimidation / insulting and lack of support from people on these boards.

Not meaning to be rude (in much the same way that you "don't mean to be against IOFFL"), put your balls where your mouth is and give us some of these amazing and wonderous instant solution suggestions that were mentioned.

And if they were so outsanding, then why haven't they been carried out already?

My 2 cents

MDR

212.2.179.66,

Its friday morning, I have just flown into Dublin at six this morning, I was just sitting down to enjoy a nice cup of coffee and read the boards, what do I find 212.2.179.66 going off on a rant again. I should stayed in bed in Birmingham.

I am really fascinated by your need to come on the boards and point out problems. Has no-one ever told you that your ability to point out problems doesn't make you seem like a smart or wise person. Do you supose for a moment that David, Adam etc are entirely ignorant of the situation and walk around in cloud cukoo land.

don't wan't to sound like im agains't IOFFL or the Boards here

Well what did you want to sound like, its a bit like saying 'I am really sorry but I think your idiot'. Own your words, if you are going to say something, say it, don't apologise for it.

But i was at a meeting tonight and some facts were raised. To put the outcome of it all blulntly. Eirocm win.

The first fact YOU could start with, was what meeting did you attend.

It's time to do something or get out guys!....

Would you like to take over ? Given that I have seen no evidence of your willingness to do anything but critise to date, I would think it folly on anyones part to read what you have said and 'say I really relate to what this guy is saying'. It all a bit Eamonn Dunphy-esque all talk no action.

But i'm going to be honest here. I dont want to publist them here for fear of segretation / intimidation / insulting and lack of support from people on these boards.

I came to these boards a couple of months ago, trying to find answers to the problems that faced irish people. Having lived in France, England and Northern Ireland, I was able to examine Ireland from a distance. I have gained a acute understanding of the old Irish Mentality of begudgers and cute-hoors that conintues in many old organisations like the incubant operator who we love so well.

I came to these boards and, offered IDEAS, TIME, ENERGY and COMITMENT, like others have done for so long, I was contacted soon afterwards and given a project which I hope to bring to fruitition in the next day or so. I expierenced none of these traits of which you accuse IOFFL. Perhaps it is you that is living in Cloud 9 ?

Zaltais

Just as a slight aside the IP address used as the original posters nick (i.e. 212.2.179.66) resolves to one owned by Ocean Communications Ltd. (Owned by Esat AFAIK)

Perhaps (s)he's trying to tell us something?

And if s(he) is an official of Ocean / Esat why doesn't (s)he do something more about Eircom?

After all the more pressure put on the government / the ODTR etc by competitors of Eircom the better!

Zaltais

BoneCollector

I will say one thing..

Whatever is happening..
its happening to slowly and alone.
I have seen posts where committee members remind us its a voluntary group, being run in peoples spare time..

Fair enough..
However there is more than the committee to consider here..
Poeple that post on the board are just as much willing participants as the committee, and to indicate the committee is burdened in anyway is unfair..
I have suggested that IOFFL have quarterly meetings, so as to get everyone together in one room to pull our resources and ideas and formulate put into effect, plans that will accelerate the process.

Posting on the board is fine except it lacks the real interaction of getting people into a room and realtime exchange of ideas etc...

NOTE: (committee "you are not alone, start to capitalise on your resource’s")

MDR

BoneCollector,

I complete relate to what you are saying, I have advocated more face time with committee. I don't think however quartely meetings would the answer, I would say bi yearily meetings, and bi yearily Q+A virtual meetings (IRC perhaps).

I am putting together a FAQ part to the site, to enable people to get motivate and informed. Giving them the tools to help out too, I am going to need stanard letters/emails people can modify and send, I am going to need kill answers to the stanard responses we recieve all that type of thing.

MarkR

I'm progressing pretty well with the basic format as discussed with dave. Text and links can be updated when those sample letters and emails are ready.

Btw, what are 212.etc's suggestions? I'm not exactly an avid reader here, but I don't recall seeing any suggestions. Care to fill us in?

Mark

Dustaz

legbreaker, we await with baited breath for his suggestions

MDR

Btw, what are 212.etc's suggestions? I'm not exactly an avid reader here, but I don't recall seeing any suggestions

I don't think he has a point yet, he seems to be happy enough shouting abuse.

MarkR

I can picture it... We should DO something!

steve-hosting36

Has the option of funding for the group been looked at?

What about sponsorship or similar if recourse to the members is out?

Steve

MDR

Has the option of funding for the group been looked at?

i am not sure it has been looked a very closely, at the moment its a question of when money is needed it is asked for. Like at the moment with the trip to Brussels ...

MarkR

I meant to ask about that. Did someone volunteer the cash, or did you get a deal from ryanair?

MDR

I meant to ask about that. Did someone volunteer the cash, or did you get a deal from ryanair?

Its all coming from members personal donations ...

Dangger

Has the option of funding for the group been looked at?

What about sponsorship or similar if recourse to the members is out?

We decided to reject sponsorship in the early days when it was offered, as we felt to accept it would have questioned our truly neutral stance. We have survived so far from donations. The only major costs to date have been our public get togethers including the seminars, and of course travel and printing.

It would be nice to not to have to worry about the financial aspect, but we recognise that we need to raise funds to persue certain tactics!

BoneCollector

It would be nice to not to have to worry about the financial aspect, but we recognise that we need to raise funds to persue certain tactics!

Quartaly meetings would solve this problem dont you think :cool:

Felix Randel

How quickly would you like the revoluation to be?

These things take time and they wont happen any faster by you stamping you feet and screaming "I want, I want"

Dangger

I will say one thing..

Whatever is happening..
its happening to slowly and alone.
I have seen posts where committee members remind us its a voluntary group, being run in peoples spare time..

Fair enough..
However there is more than the committee to consider here..
Poeple that post on the board are just as much willing participants as the committee, and to indicate the committee is burdened in anyway is unfair..
I have suggested that IOFFL have quarterly meetings, so as to get everyone together in one room to pull our resources and ideas and formulate put into effect, plans that will accelerate the process.

Posting on the board is fine except it lacks the real interaction of getting people into a room and realtime exchange of ideas etc...

NOTE: (committee "you are not alone, start to capitalise on your resource’s")

Bonecollector, we recognise the value of our resources and the need to communicate in an open manner. The core committee consists of five active (on a daily basis), we have had people drift away and leave over the last few months. We need more people on the committee (5 to 8 more) and decided that the best time to do this was at the AGM. We had moved the AGM back because of the World Cup, and now have decided on the 20th of July.

We been have concerned about our perception to others who view the comments on these boards as having come straight form the mouth of the committee. The fact that this is a members forum is overlooked by observers at times. Threats have been made against employees of the companies with whom we asked to meet with in the past. That is unfortunate and as far as I am concerned quite unacceptable. Its a fine balancing act, gaining respect from members and the industry, taking the anger from members and using it in a constructive manner. Because IOFFL are set up and lobbying in this area, we also become a target.

On the quarterly meeting front I'm all for it, and in the short term how about a virtual meeting using IRC for example. In fact how about we hold one on Sunday night? What would people think?

MDR

8:30 ish on sunday would be grand for me ....

sceptre

Originally posted by Dangger
We decided to reject sponsorship in the early days when it was offered, as we felt to accept it would have questioned our truly neutral stance.

And as I recall, at the Mercer Hotel meeting, the membership endorsed this decision pretty much unanimously (more to the point, I think the question was just put to them and they voted "hell no" pretty much unanimously)

stormkeeper

On the quarterly meeting front I'm all for it, and in the short term how about a virtual meeting using IRC for example. In fact how about we hold one on Sunday night? What would people think?

I'm sure I'd be able to attend. Travelling out of my county (Kildare) isn't really a viable option for myself, and possibly for a few others in different counties.

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Dustaz
legbreaker, we await with baited breath for his suggestions

I am somewhat astonished at this remark Dustaz?? Surely to become a Mod you must have to read what is being said on these board first and at least have some understanding as to what is going on in these boards? It was you who suggested that I become more familial/acquainted with what's being said and done here? Surely you above all people must realise that its time to stop sleeping with the enemy (or are you just GAY!?) IOFFL have been 2 or more years in the making. In that time a lot of things have been learned.
1. EIRCOM cannot be trusted
2. The ODTR only tell us what we need to hear (not very often but just enough to keep us going)
3. IOFFL do NOT have the support they actually think they have.
4. Apart from here, no one knows about IOFFL.
5. No one cares.
6. Only a handful of people out of 1,000's give a damn.
7. Only a 'FEW' people are trying to make a difference.
8. The people that ARE trying to make a difference.... no one wants to help them. (thankless job)
9. Everyone wants to sit back and just flow/not flow with the outcome.
10. IOFFL have made a difference, I won’t deny that but its time to stop sitting back and waiting.
11. Time and time again people on these boards have said the same thing. IOFFL needs to be funded. IOFFL needs to be FULL TIME and staffed by people that can give 100% to our aims.
12. The only way to do this is to set up Offices where IOFFL can be contacted 24/7.
13. IOFFL need to become and everyday issue amongst the people of Ireland. The only way to do this is through advertising. 14. IOFFL need to hold more and more protests. Right now IOFFL is but a 'FAILED' Blackout to everyone in Ireland.
15. EIRCOM is a substantial company to be reckoned with but who makes them what they are? Isn’t it time we showed them?

If you need any more hints on how to make this actually work. Please read back on some of the threads that were posted here to try help IOFFL ok?

212.2.179.66

Lemming

And wher edo you propose that IOFFL gets the sufficient funding to do all this?

What you've described is something akin to a corporation.

I'm sure you have ample wonderous suggestions as to how to achieve all this and aren't just being an arm-chair "expert" critic??

212.2.179.66

Warning
Hi

Just a friendly note to say Please read the rules of the forum. Feel free to complain, but do it once and dont keep harping on the same point.
If this behavious continues, action will be taken.
Thanks
Dustaz
==============================================
I have Read the rules. And if you dont want me to vioce my opinion here, then so be it. (Behaviours is what i think u ment?)
If you don't want me here Dustaz just say so. It's as easy as that and no threat is needed. I know you like doing it and i would not like to deny it from you. But there really is no need for a show of strength or how powerfull you are here. Just say please leave and i will.

Thanks for your time,

212.2.179.66

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Lemming
And where do you propose that IOFFL gets the sufficient funding to do all this?

What you've described is something akin to a corporation.

I'm sure you have ample wondrous suggestions as to how to achieve all this and aren't just being an arm-chair "expert" critic??

More membership / more awareness that IOFFL actually exist / contributions / sponsorship from companies you name it! It can be done. Stop asking where and how and just go out and try!

212.2.179.66

Lemming

Originally posted by 212.2.179.66


More membership / more awareness that IOFFL actually exist / contributions / sponsorship from companies you name it! It can be done. Stop asking where and how and just go out and try!

212.2.179.66

Hmmm ... so are you prepared to work full time on IOFFL, sinc eyou're the one so eager for everyone else to do it.

No??? Why not?

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Lemming


Hmmm ... so are you prepared to work full time on IOFFL, sinc eyou're the one so eager for everyone else to do it.

No??? Why not?

I will plead like IOFFL and say i have other commitments. But im sure there ARE people out there willing to do it. But right now i dont see anyone willing to do it. That's why we need to get a lot more support and make IOFFL more known to everyone in Ireland. There are people out there that would be willing, its up to us to find them is it not?

212.2.179.66

dahamsta

Originally posted by 212.2.179.66

I will plead like IOFFL and say i have other commitments. But im sure there ARE people out there willing to do it. But right now i dont see anyone willing to do it. That's why we need to get a lot more support and make IOFFL more known to everyone in Ireland. There are people out there that would be willing, its up to us to find them is it not?

212.2.179.66

Answer the question pet...

adam

vampyre

I can assure the poster some of us do plenty. We contact companies we do try to heighten awareness we fail more often than not so we shut our mouths. Not everyone needs to advertise their actions or a pat on the head for trying.

kamobe

212 something something, has made some valid points.
Sponsorship from a big company would be nice, and it would allow us to advertise and awaken many more people then we currently can.

Most information passes through this forum, or through the IOFFL website, but the whole idea is that internet usage is too expensive. Families with kids who run up huge bills, business’s with 3/4 ISDN lines, people in general who are being ripped off, need to be informed. Currently, the only way they would know about IOFFL is if they happened to read one or two choice articles in random papers, or already read these boards.

And of course to advertise, we will need sponsors. I don’t think it would be viewed as "selling out". It will help us educate the public, whilst associating a company with a good cause. Surely there's someone out there who wants to be associated with helping the public of our country

I'd also like to express my complete support, and appreciation, to IOFFL for the work they've done for the past two years. Considering the nature of the organisation (voluntary), they've achieved plenty.

Cheers folks

Dangger

We are hoping to raise our profile in the run up to the AGM. Our long overdue newsletter goes out tomorrow. The hope is that many who signed up, and do not frequent the boards will be reminded that we are fighting in their corner, and we're asking that the newsletter is passed around to all in your address book.

Most importantly the IOFFL survey is ready to roll thanks to sterling work from from some members. We will be publicising IT as best we can and pushing it out there. There is no defined cut off point as of yet, but we would hope to have some stats for the AGM.

Dustaz

Since Mr IP has failed to answer the question about where this mysterious meeting took place or who was involved, im locking the thread.

IP, all you have posted are old questions/suggestions/moans which members of the committee have answered here or elsewhere recently. Feel free to continue to post, but any more offensive remarks will result in a ban.