Wanna Start Using Linux/Unix

Mutz

Hey all:

Im one of these guys who has constant bad luck with Windows OS's and I think I am prepared tro Handle something that is not made by MS, so I wanna Try using Linux

What Linux OS Version should I Buy? (Redhat etc?)
Is Linux/Unix Hard to Learn? (Is there a GUI Version that I can buy?)
Are Drivers for a PC (intended for a Windows Pentium Machine) using Linux/Unix hard to come by? (Hardware like Video Cards and Modems etc)

ANy Suggestion Would be Handy

Thanks

mneylon

Personally I've been using Suse for over a year on and off.
The GUI is very similar to a windoze environment and the installation disks contain enough apps to keep most people happy.

Hardware support at this stage is pretty good. There are some issues with winmodems, as some of the chipsets rely on the OS rather than the hardware itself (probably not a technically correct explanation - so please don't flame me!)

If you buy Suse you get plenty of manuals and guides that actually explain things - unlike that bit of dead tree that normally comes with Windows but explains sfa...

Is it easy? Basic operations and even some quite advanced ones, depending on the distribution, can be carried out via the GUI, so the transition isn't too painful. However you may be in for some pleasant and not so pleasant surprises when dealing with a REAL OS :-)

BTBB

I've been using Linux for the past few months and have found it to be pretty good. I use SuSE 7.0 however 8.0 is out so I'd suggest that. You can also keep your current OS and dual boot. Swap space(there's a HOWTO) and storage space can be stored (only with FAT however). I'd suggest the 200mb primary partition below 1024 cylinders for booting.


Apparently the installation is extremely easy and there are lots of drivers. There are two problems with Linux:
1. Drivers
2. Complexity

The first is a major problem (for me anyway - £300 worth of hardware that you can't use isn't very handy). At worst you can always write your own drivers.

The second is due to the nature of Linux - its power. (Everyone on this board will now flame me for calling this a problem. Please, if nothing else think of the bandwidth).

The best and worst thing about Linux is this power. Configuration of even the simplest things can take hours of RTFM and experimentation. The result is completely secure, easy to work with and very powerful.

Manual-wise SuSE provides a good manual for the beginner but I found a good tutorial at http://www.linux.org/lessons/page.cgi?PageID=14
recently.

I've had lots of fun with configuration. I still can't use X-Windows (GUI enviroment). I discovered a 65535 cylinder limit for LILO - my Linux partition is above 70000. My new kernel has problems with modules. SuSE's scripts are very handy though and automate a lot of tasks.

In all Linux is a very good and powerful OS that I would advise to anyone with sufficent computer ability. (Computer user - one who pertains to be able to use a computer yet gets confused by a simple rearrangement of Desktop icons. Linux not advised).

The GUI is meant to be good and there are many window managers like KDE and GNOME. QNV(I think) is like Win95.

Of course for ease of use Macs are advised. You could have the best of both worlds - Linux running on a Mac. (I am aware of the problem with this idea but the RISC would give good performance imporvements).

BTBB

BTW: Its a pretty OK description of the winmodem problem. Others inculde winscanners and winprinters. Also it is illegal for Americans to distribute Linux drivers to allow for this so support could be a problem but efforts are beings made. Personally I'd never settle for anything that wasn't full hardware.

Mutz

Thanks guys for the help

So How much is SuSe?

Also, Say if I have a 40gig HDD. Will I just partition it in half (Win/SuSe Linux)?
I'm not familiar with cylinders, I presume it tells ya on installation.

Cheers for the info
:cool:

mneylon

Shop around before you buy. Like everything in life some times different shops put different prices..

If you already have Windoze installed:
1. Clean up the hard drive
2. Scan it
3. Defragment it


For partitioning Suse and most others offer a partitioning tool during the installation process. I think I had already partitioned my HD using Partition Magic.. but that doesn't matter
I would advise against putting the bootloader directly on the hard disk, as this might cause problems with Windoze if you need to reinstall - though that depends on the version

BTBB

I installed SuSE 8.0 a few days ago and it was a breeze. The only problem I had was that the option to use a floppy as a LILO boot disk didn't work - major problem if you don't have experiance. It took me half an hour to fix. Also my floppy drive has gone very slow - but this isn't too important.

It didn't have drivers for my modem, sound and graphics cards but KDE3 is nice.

Also the Linux Documntation Project is only partially present. If you have a problem with Linux the answer is there. The RFCs (you don't need tham) are also missing.

BTBB

noog

I've just tried the SuSe 8 'eval' cd ... and i must say it's bloody gorgeous.. one of the nicest looking installers ive seen... Of course i tend to avoid the excessively text based installing linux distros (being a noob ) If you want a mess around with linux to make sure you know what you're getting into, I would suggest either Mandrake 8.2, SuSe 8, and Redhat... They both have relatively easy and pretty installers, and have wizards for the difficult stuff, such as setting up dialup connections.

I would get the full SuSe and have a play but it's a dodgy 3 gig download .. anyone know if the iso images of the multiple SuSe 8 cd's are avaliable on the net somewhere? I'd appreciate a link..

if you are downloading the distros then Mandrake is probably the smallest weighing in at just over 1 Gig... SuSe weighs in at 3gigs..

if you want somewhere decent to buy Linux cd's i'd reccomend www.linuxemporium.co.uk

hope it helps,

noog.

BTBB

SuSE 8.0 Personal is E50 and Professional is E150 (offhand). You'll only want Personal. You can avoid paying completely if you know someone who know's someone who already has SuSE 8.0 and can either borrow the DVD/CDs or copy it/them (worked for me).

BTBB

phobos

I'm just wondering why would someone go out and pay for Linux, since it's released under GNU.

Is it just so you wil receive the manuals, tech support etc, from the distributing company?. I don't have anything against purchasing a Linux distro, but with the amount of information available on the net, I just wonder why people are playing for it.

Enlighten me, if you will

;-phobos-)

mneylon

I am more than happy to pay for Linux because:
1. I get CD-ROMS etc., so I don't have to download it
2. The manuals are excellent
3. I can get technical support
4. There's no such thing as a free lunch. If I had to buy even 5% of the Windoze equivalents it would cost me double (ie. applications etc - not OS)
5. I'd rather NOT give my money to Bill Gates

BTBB

Although there is no reason why you couldn't make your own personal 'distribution' it would be very difficult due to the amount of stuff you would have to download. The kernel is 25mb with another 25mb worth of stuff that it needs (not too sure on this). Basic GNU stuff would probably take over 50mb but this depends on whether you use source or pre-compliled. Then there's the apps and daemons that you need. I dare not think of the size of XFree. Then you have to compile the lot - without an OS as you haven't used one yet as you refuse to pay for one. Then preparing all the base files in /etc /bin /sbin and /bin/init.d would take a while.

Of course before all that there's an internet connection(that costs you) that you can't use unless your finger/voicebox can operate at 9600 baud and your eye at similar speeds(no OS yet). Then you'd have to put it all on a disk with bare electrical signals or magnets.

The distributions are very useful and without them Linux would only have spread to a few thousand people at most. If there's a market someone will step in to make money.


Here's an address for SuSE 8.0.

http://www.suse.co.uk/uk/products/suse_linux/i386/index.html

BTBB

phobos

Originally posted by blacknight
I'd rather NOT give my money to Bill Gates

I second that

;-phobos-)

seamus

Well, for my first install, I wouldn't have even nearly survived without the book/manual (Red Hat unleashed). I had minimal knowledge of commands - namely ls, cd, cat & piping. The book was great, walks you through every part of installation, and configuring and setting up stuff, for the most part. It also explains what you're doing and why, as opposed to "go here, type this, click there", like windows manuals do. Actually, gotta get back to that.........

Gavin

not everyone has access to a large internet connection.
Even if you do, downloading and buring 8 debian iso's is kind of annoying. it's a bit handier to just buy them for just about cost price.

Gav

noog

It didn't have drivers for my modem, sound and graphics cards but KDE3 is nice

ROFL :> - i get that... 'it doesnt work at all, but it looks pretty

I'd love to get a nice system running linux that could do everything i want... but sooner or later i know that some program or game is going to come out (such as gta3) which isn't going to work on linux so i tend to avoid using linux as a fulltime workstation OS... however for my router I'm hoping it will be a nice OS to run, having my pretty ftpd and httpd, and SSH access will r0x :> although WinXP Terminal services was ever so usefull.

The Corinthian

Redhat 7.1, Modem is an External bog standard Genius type (I just use a generic driver on W2K for it). Linux can't detect it at all - so drivers are not really an issue.

Any suggestions?

Gavin

It's a serial one is it ?
You shouldn't need drivers of any shape or form if it is a serial modem. What software are you using to try and connect ?

just scripts or a gui prog ( kppp/wvdial/whatever) ?

Gav

flamegrill

basically just point any unix dialing software at it - if its on com1 one its /dev/ttyS0 or com2 /dev/ttyS1. u cant relly see it detected by linux tbh - till you get a dialer program to try use it.

http://open.nit.ca/wvdial/ <- is a great dialer

also pppd is good to and there are scripts that are easy to configure to use it. Also kppd - nice GUI for pppd in KDE.

The Corinthian

Sorry fg, no joy - Either can't be seen or refuses to respond to even basic AT commands.

flamegrill

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Sorry fg, no joy - Either can't be seen or refuses to respond to even basic AT commands.

whast the make and model? can you use a standard 56k driver in windows with it?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by flamegrill
whast the make and model? can you use a standard 56k driver in windows with it?

Don't know the exact model - just a bog standard Genius 56k external modem. I can use it with W2K using a generic driver, but Linux cant even see it.

I think I should take this to the Linux, Modems, yet again? thread.