When is a Pc Game.....A PC GAME???

Doodee

Ok, after having a huge arguement on MIRC just a few minutes ago I have been comelled to ask this question?

When is a PC Game....a PC game?

Its a bit like when is a Baby a Baby?
the same arguement that anti-abortionists go on about ... at conception or at birth?

When first concieved HALO was apparently destined for PC release...however after being bought out by Microsoft Halo ended up being released onto the X-Box and so PC gamers will have to wait.

Now...in my opinien Bungie never had to sell out to MS.Fact is that they have made more money in doing so...so...was Halo a PC game...
I would say no...as it may have originally been thought,begun and almost completed for the PC but until it has a set release date then it isnt a PC GAME (I bought an X-Box wiv Halo )

your thoughts?

Blitzkrieger

it's a PC game when you can release patches to fix bugs (which inevitably slip through) and you have an army of people writing maps, mods, scenarios, etc.

[CALIBUR]

i'll feel that ms have stoled THE best game on the pc so they can sell it on the x-box to make it sell more.










sorry i mean second best pc game. behide doom 3 being first

KdjaCL

A communtiy ???
But thats mainly for online play.
What makes a PC game stand out from console in my view (only playing PC games year or so)
Is detail and depth.

Halo is a great game but has been modified for console play and transfered well.
But if that came to PC it would be the Online play that would be its main attraction.
kdja

amp

Well I would have thought that a PC Game is one you can play on a PC. But I often have strange thoughts.

Saruman

Originally posted by amp
Well I would have thought that a PC Game is one you can play on a PC. But I often have strange thoughts.

Well said.. its 9:32 and way too early for this type of philosophical discussion

Venom

My thought's on when a PC game is a PC game would be that the game itself was developed on a PC to be played on a PC using mouse/keyboard/joystick,and not a port over from a console.

PC Games
Doom
Quake 1-2-3
Halflife
War/star-craft
Any of the online RPG's


Not a PC game
GTA 1-2-3
any of the piss-poor beat em up conversion
Resident Evil
Final Fantasy
Any game with a semi naked manag chick on the box cover

darthmise

Originally posted by Doodee


When is a PC Game....a PC game?

Its a bit like when is a Baby a Baby?
the same arguement that anti-abortionists go on about ... at conception or at birth?

so...was Halo a PC game...

What a comparison...

THere must be better ways to spend ones time than pondering the likes..

tHE vAGGABOND

Jesus!

a PC game is a PC game when its in a box on the shop shelf...

In the game Im currently working on we have the ability to port to every platform known to man. That does not mean that that game is a gamecube game just cos we have spoken about it and the ability is there. Its 6-9 months and a big ass miracle from being a gamecube game

Same as halo was over a year from being a PC game, and never was a PC game.

RopeDrink

Originally posted by amp
Well I would have thought that a PC Game is one you can play on a PC. But I often have strange thoughts.

But amp, myself and many other people are actually playing NES / Atari Jaguar / Amstrad / SNES / PSX games on their PC's too...
Your not having strange thoughts at all at all... Nooo, PC games are played on the "OTHER" CoMpUtErS.

po0k

Originally posted by Venom
My thought's on when a PC game is a PC game would be that the game itself was developed on a PC to be played on a PC using mouse/keyboard/joystick,and not a port over from a console.

PC Games
Doom
Quake 1-2-3
Halflife
War/star-craft
Any of the online RPG's

Not a PC game
GTA 1-2-3
any of the piss-poor beat em up conversion
Resident Evil
Final Fantasy
Any game with a semi naked manag chick on the box cover

GTA1-2-3 are PC games imho.
They are a hell of a lot mre fun to play - specially in multiplayer and they look far and away better on a PC.
My piece 'o shít P120 16meg +VoODoo1 wiped the floor with the ugl blocky PSX version.
The PC was the only way to play the gamer properly.
GTA2 was much the same, looked better on the PC.
GTA3 - the control system is nicer - having a mouse and not having to 'rely' on an auto-aim to 'help' you kill people is much better. They seem to have madea total hash of the conversion process though.
Would be a class multiplayer game - Driver+Max Payne + Kingpin all rolled into one If they release a pulg-in population gernerator that can sync with other client's when they both come within a certain distance of each other it'd be sweeeet.

A PC game is one you enjoy over a long period of time, and is more 'configurable' and customisable.
Depending on your setup it is up to you to get it running at it's best, which demands a certain degree of knowledge of the equipment your using (Good workman never blames his tools etc. - paralells with the control system on consoles).
It is a well known fact that FPSes belong on a mouse + keyboard type control system, which has so far needed a desk or mount of some sort, taking away from the 'slouched on the couch playing Gran Turismo after the pub' - which is fine in it's way. Bungie ha to slow down Halo and make the AI thicker to allow for the difficulty and inaccuracy of the analogue stick on the XBox. Again, in GTA3 on the PS2, to overcome the cumbersome controls, they introduced an 'auto-aim' feature. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right, get a mouse or similar trackball controller with a D-pad/keys on the left side to control lateral movement, forward, back, step left, step right, with the track ball allowing much more accurate aiming in 3 axes. Something similar to that MS thing, except better.
Again, a Strategy or 'Traditional RPG' is best on a PC.
Imho FFX is not a role playing game in the D&D sense of the word, more of a role-playing as in a play on stage, like a picture story book with Big Font. The combat system is totally uninvolved to the point of frustration, you have bock all effect on how much damage a particular attack does. It's infantile. Yet people cream their Y-fronts over a bit of "atmospheric moosak" and carefully rendered FMV - see FFX ad on TV - false advertising imo.
A PC game on the other hand is more involved, more demanding of it's player, and subsequently more rewarding. Take Diablo, Civilistaion series, Summoner, Frontier/Elite, Cannon Fodder, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, Command & Conquer (the pitiful PSX conversion sickens me - should have been shelved).
Then look at driving games.
Compare Gran turismo to Nascar4. Or EA F1 2002 to Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix3. Wiped the floor.

I am well aware that I'm being biased here, and it is impossible to be objective on a subject you're passionate about, but in my long experience, I've yet to find a console game that has made me want to go out and buy the hard ware.
When I first played the halflife Uplink Demo I went out, bough a Voodoo1 and a bit of ram, carefully installed them myself and overclocked my cpu to get it running better.
It was that good.
Again, I'm doing the same with Opflashpoint, saving up to buy a new rig to play it the way it's meant to be played, because I feel the quality of the game and the experience it'll give me is worth the moderate expense.
Multiplayer on the PC is the only way to go too

{edit} One last point - PC games do not have a license royalty slapped on them to cover the 'discounted' hardware, nor do you have to fork out for a high quality monitor or sound system. Most consoles are hooked up using RF or composite connectors to Tvs with poor display and sound qualities. That is something conviently forgotten when people start comparing the cost of PCs to consoles.{/edit}
Flame On!

Dont be at yourself

Amp, you're wrong.

And also, YOUR GAY.

amp

a: I'm never wrong
b: Why? You interested?

amp

Originally posted by RopeDrink


But amp, myself and many other people are actually playing NES / Atari Jaguar / Amstrad / SNES / PSX games on their PC's too...
Your not having strange thoughts at all at all... Nooo, PC games are played on the "OTHER" CoMpUtErS.

Ok. I see. What?

Dcully

Syxpak i totally and utterly agree with everything you said.Consoles are fine for the average gamer but a high-end pc is the only way to go for serious gamers,
IE, Mouse and keyboard for FPS games Halo on xbox is a decent game but to me the controls are totally useless and ruin the game,FPS games simply dont work on consoles and thats basically it.
The same is to be said for racing games/sims.
Ive being playing racing games for years started with megadrive racing games and now play racing SIMS and compete in leagues online with UK based servers,Ofcourse i also race offline too and a steering wheel and pedals setup with forcefeedback beats any console game even with the use of a wheel on the console .
A fast PC is powerfull enough to process all the calculations required for a racing SIM.The consoles seem only to bother about how the game looks and forget about the physics engine.
Heres a perfect example

---

EA sports have recently released F1 2002 on all formats,Ea employed ISI who along with PAPYRUS are widely known as the Best in the business to recreate car physics. ISI were only involved in the PC version,the reason for this is PC gamers demand ultimate realism and depth,the consoles while have lovely graphics simply dont have the processing power for real physics going on in the background.
This is fine if you want to sit on the couch for a quick blast but thats it.
I think this is a good example of what the opening thread is asking.
My brother has an xbox ,i would probably buy one for casual gaming if and its a huge if ,the control system was better ,to me gamepads are great for footy games, platformers and fighting games but i dont call those genres depth.;)

chernobyl

Originally posted by Dcully
Consoles are fine for the average gamer but a high-end pc is the only way to go for serious gamers,

I guess i better hang my game pads up.
The truth has been stated and all console gamers who consider themselves "serious gamers" should drop their heads in embarrassment.

As any "serious/complete" gamer knows, in order to be a "serious" gamer you play games on both a Console and a PC.

amp

Me hears distant thunder as Shinji reads Dcully's post. RUN AWAY DCULLY! RUN AWAY!

Dcully

Run away ? Hmmmm
Why ? What have i done wrong?
Maybe you misunderstood me ,when i said serious gamers should stick to Pc not console i was talking about Sim-racing ,
Sorry if i offend anyone ,Un intended
But i still say For Serious race sim fans the PC is your answer.:rolleyes:

Dcully

In reply to Chernobyl, I have a Dreamcast and PS1 and PS2
CAn i consider myself a serious gamer now?;)

Dont be at yourself

Serious gamers are gamers who play games with a furrowed brow, occasionally stroking their thinking beard and waxxing intellectually about Duke Nukem. They're not to be confused with hardcore gamers, who sit in their own filth wearing leather underwear screaming bad words at their on-screen self.

Me? I play games to have fun. Fun can be found in both console and PC games.

Dcully

LOL ,well put Bibleman.

Sand

PC games *tend* to have a lot more depth/replayability to them - consoles have footie, Gran Turismo types and platformers sewn up and thats grand. Theres a lot to be said for coming home from the pub and having a bash at the console with no serious thought involved.

But Ive not seen a Console game that allows me to journey from planet to planet, trading, engaging in combat with another vessel or spacestation (using either direct fire, my fighter complement or mines and missles), do my Scotty impression as I try to desperately try to squeeze enough power out of my engine so I can launch a shuttle to tow my battered ship to a station to repair it before the enemy finishes me off, all the while ordering marines to fight off the inevitable intruders, and still fly, swim, walk, drive and fight through dozens of planets - and all of this is just one PC game, Battlecruiser Millenium. That gives me a lot of replayability and depth, a significant advantage over say Tekken 13 and a half. The same can be said for Morrowind, Ive had it since last Thursday and Im still barely scratching the surface of what can be done in the game - Im already thinking of how I can approach the game when I replay it.

PCs also dominate the multiplayer arena, I play a lot of UT for example, not cos i like mindless fragging action- more cos i like playing with and against real people, its the sort of challenge which leaves most AI wanting.

I heard a lot about Halo and how it was going to be an excellent game etc, Ive only seen the X Box ads on TV for it now but Ive got to say the graphics look .... not what i was expecting for all the hype. Theyll have to improve a lot to compete with the likes of Unreal 2, UT 2 and Doom 3 (Still way off but hey... )

chernobyl

Originally posted by Dcully
In reply to Chernobyl, I have a Dreamcast and PS1 and PS2
CAn i consider myself a serious gamer now?;)

I honestly dont know...i tell you what you can be on parole and in 2 weeks we can have a power lunch on your performance.
I do agree with you about racing sims on pc though, but TBH the only sims are on pc, but, my pc is by no means top spec.

On a side note about console racing games, i recently purchased F1 2002 for the Station2 as was so disgusted with its control system i sent it back to EA with a letter attached stating:

I paid €70 for this and the only enjoyment i got from it was dumping it into a bin

Dcully

Ive had some games of Halo with my brother and a mate with 2 xboxes connected to 2 tvs,
It would be great if it was a mouse control setup,.
I too feel Halo is very much over-rated .
We have seen it all before ,and those aliens are a joke ,more like cartoon characters than scary aliens .Graphics are average, but music is great.
But as i said its fun linking up 2 boxes and tvs if you can forget that a mouse control exists.

Dcully

Hi Chernobyl,ive played pc,xboxand ps2 versions of f1 2002.
I was impressed with gfx on ps2,
xbox version has framerate issues and view in the distance is seriously blurry even on my 100 hz 32" screen

Bard

ANY game can be a PC game... ANY game could be developed for the PC or at least ported over to the PC. Not any game though could be a console game. The consoles lack certain things that the PC has had for quite some time... upgradability, availability of patches, easy networking/Internetworking, keyboards(!), level/map editors, and more. The main difference I guess is that of having a usable Operating System UI on a PC and not having it on a console.

I prefer playing certain games on a PC... particularly football games for that matter - I find them easier to control on a keyboard! ... oh, and FPS shooters like Q3A and UT of course - I have no intention of running around the pits of hell chasing somone with a rocket launcher, and having to control the action with a pithy little 'joypad'!

Conversely, some games (Sonic The Hedgehog and the like) are the type I'd expect to find only on a console. ... no-brainer platformers mainly, I guess... ones that the controls of a 'joypad' are more suited to. I mean... who wants to play Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002 and control it with a feckin' PSOne Analog Controller? Or Quake for that matter? - It's just not the same... on the flip side- who would want to play a game like Super Mario Bro's and control it with a bunch of keys on the keyboard? ... so yeah- I can see the distinction... but there'll always be more choice when it comes to PC's as opposed to consoles- PC's, by design, will always be more flexible/less restrictive.

[edit]: oh... and the higher resolutions offered by top end graphics cards on PC systems over that available on a TV set certainly makes some difference too...

Venom

SyxPak I did not mean that GTA3 was not a good game as it rocks on the PS2 and I really enjoyed it.Can't comment on the PC version as I would not play/buy it for the PC due to having played it on another format already.

What I ment was that it was a game that was made for the console market and later ported over to the PC.This in my book makes it a console game but thats not a bad thing in any way.

The topic of this tread was what makes a game belong to one format and not the other when out for both formats,not an is this game any good type topic.

While I agree with your post about GTA3 I think your post is about a different subjet to what my post was about.

po0k

Yeah
I re-read my post after posting it.
Thought you might think that it was directed at you....
No hassle.
GTA1 was released on the PC first, was it not?
I remember playing it on the PC first, the christmas of 1998 maybe - not too sure on the date.
I've an early 'Preview' of it in an issue of PCGamer at home.
They seemed to only mention the PC version.

Anywhoo, twas a savage game, and the 3dfx accelerated PC version was the only way to really see it at it's best.
I was disgusted by the boxy ugly cars of the PSX version.

/me steps into his leather Gucci thong and picks up his Logitech Dual Optical......'ARDCORE style

Retr0gamer

Let's settle this thread now. A PC game is a game that is politically correct. An example of a non-pc game is Duke nukem 3D.
Also anyone that says pc games are far better than console games should be shot. I have a console and a pc and both have theyre own pros and cons although at the moment i much prefer the console games market. Oh and finally Raven make average games. Average and never better than average.

GreenHell

To my quiet limited knowledge isn't a PC game a PC game when a publisher goes, "well we can make even more money if we release it on pc as well".

po0k

Hehheh....quake....hohoho...Opflash....heehee Halflife (released on the PS2 you say? Inferior piece of pish you say? I woul,d have to see it to believe it...etc.)

That only holds true for a few console games, and they're generally the good ones and the really shítey cash cow merchandising barbie doll sims.

Bard

Originally posted by SyxPak
merchandising barbie doll sims.

... which you'd never buy... of course... would you???

Kairo

Originally posted by GreenHell
To my quiet limited knowledge isn't a PC game a PC game when a publisher goes, "well we can make even more money if we release it on pc as well".

Quite the opposite in my opinion. All the classic console titles that are to remain console titles is when the publisher goes "well, we wouldnt make any more money porting it fto the PC. It would cost to much to convert, and the market isnt as great."

Final Fantasy 9+10, Metal Gear Solid 2, Any Nintendo game. None to grace our PC's...its probably for the best. GTA3 may be easier to control, but the performance issues and bugs just dont make it worth it.

Dont be at yourself

MGS2:Substance is PC bound though, innit?

Celt

Originally posted by Venom
SyxPak I did not mean that GTA3 was not a good game as it rocks on the PS2 and I really enjoyed it.Can't comment on the PC version as I would not play/buy it for the PC due to having played it on another format already.

What I ment was that it was a game that was made for the console market and later ported over to the PC.This in my book makes it a console game but thats not a bad thing in any way.

The topic of this tread was what makes a game belong to one format and not the other when out for both formats,not an is this game any good type topic.

While I agree with your post about GTA3 I think your post is about a different subjet to what my post was about.

GTA1/2 were both released on PC first.

po0k

Are you sure about that Celt?
I thought so too myself, but I haven't bother to try and find out for sure.

Shinji

GTA1/2 were both released on PC first.

What's your point? Venom was talking about GTA3, not 1 or 2, as is patently obvious from the bit you quoted...



This thread is painfully close to being one of those lame platform advocacy threads we all love so much... Nakey, as per, hit the nail on the head though. Play games for fun. Who CARES what platform you play them on? If you aren't playing them for fun and entertainment, go find another hobby, this one is wasted on you.

Oh and er, to the guy who claimed that the Xbox stole the PC's second-best game, I humbly suggest that you actually PLAY Halo, and then come back and tell me it's the second best PC game ever. I'll laugh in your face, but at least it'll be entertaining!

Rob
(Currently playing, in an entirely non-serious way, Jade Coccoon 2 and Ace Combat 04 on the PS2, Zone of the Enders on the GBA, Pikmin on the Cube and rediscovering the joys of Hostile Waters on the PC. For FUN.)

Celt

Originally posted by Shinji

What's your point? Venom was talking about GTA3, not 1 or 2, as is patently obvious from the bit you quoted...

No not patently obvious.

Venom
Not a PC game
GTA 1-2-3

Syxpak
GTA1-2-3 are PC games imho.
They are a hell of a lot mre fun to play - specially in multiplayer and they look far and away better on a PC.

Venom
What I ment was that it was a game that was made for the console market and later ported over to the PC.This in my book makes it a console game but thats not a bad thing in any way.

[CALIBUR]

i'm not saying halo is crap (looks sweet) on the x-box. but it was meant for the pc and then mircosoft bought bungie so they can sell the game on the x-box. so they sell more x-boxs. personal I think doom 3 looks lot sexer but i've not played the game yet to tell whats it like to halo.

Dont be at yourself

but it was meant for the pc

1. It was originally destined for the Mac.

2. Halo, as it exists today, is worlds away from what it would have been like on the PC/Mac. When it switched format to XBox, it was basically redesigned as a console shooter and maintained only the basic essence of the original. The current Halo would not work well at all on the PC.

po0k

hehe, true nakey

What about Unix/Linux/BSD games?
Tux racer anyone? Console or PC game?