New Computer - What Parts ?

Fidelis

I'd only be fooling myself if I tried to buy my pc without any sort of advice

If some of you have a moment, could you tell me what's the best brand/configuration/type etc of seperate pc parts ?

What I mean is things like video cards, AGP or PCI ? SCSI drives or IDE ? That kind of thing

I'm talking about an entire system now.

What's the best mobo to get and what kind of RAM, things like 128mb pc133 get me confused.

I'm setting my sights on a reasonably high-end pc altogether:

Athlon 1.3 (fsb?)
512mb (pc133?)
30gb (any particular make?)
"17 (any particular make?)
fairly decent video card within the £250 price range (ATI or Creative?)
Surround speakers and sound card (which brand?)
And things like heatsinks and that poly resin for the chip.
Also, are there any drawbacks to having a combined DVD-CD-RW drive ? And what make would be the best etc.
And any reccomendations as to where to obtain these components aswell.

Appreciate any advice
Cheers

JustHalf

Okay... better give you a quick run down of RAM... if you don't know what PC133 is then you'll need to know.

PC133 RAM is SDRAM that has been rated for operation on a 133MHz front side bus. Typical bandwidth is about 450mbps (CL/CAS 3), increasing to over 600mbps when tweaked (on my board at least). When you drop the FSB speed, you drop the bandwidth considerably (I'm estimating a 25% drop in memory performance going from 133MHz to 100MHz FSB).

An Athlon (Thunderbird core) operates at either a 100MHz or 133MHz FSB speed, which is double-pumped to 200MHz and 266MHz, respectively. The technique used is called DDR (Double Data Rate) and works by being triggered on the rising and falling edge of the clock pulse (and not just one of them, which was the standard until recently). The system is still putting out a 133MHz clock pulse on my board, but my chip behaves as if it was operating on a 266MHz bus (this is an over-simplification, but you get the idea).

Now DDR RAM also exists. DDR RAM uses the same technique as the Thunderbird core with regards to memory... the board's FSB speed is *still* 133MHz (usually) but the memory treats it as 266MHz. The bandwidth provided is much better than PC133 RAM, but at the moment it still costs more. You'll also see PC150 and PC166 SDRAM around. These are sticks of SDRAM that have been rated for operation at FSB speeds of 150MHz and 166MHz, respectively. These are used mainly by overclockers. You're probably going to want 256Mb of RAM or over.

The Athlon is a great performer for the price, but don't rule out the P4... that said, you're probably not going to be able to make a good P4 system for the prices offered by DELL.

On the topic of SCSI drives: yeah, they're usually faster than IDE drives, but cost a lot-and you've usually got to buy a seperate controller card. IDE should be grand, unless you're doing something mental like lossless video capture. The Quantum Fireball AS 40.0Gb drive is *very* good, as is the similar IBM 75GXP drive.

For monitors... monitors using Trinitron tubes are quite good, official Sony ones usually even better. The cheaper 19" one (over 500 quid though in IT Direct is very good... the screen is very flat (tested with a ruler).

Video cards within the £250 price range... get a GeForce 2 GTS or Pro. They Kyro is also an option, but personally I'd stick with an nVidia card for now. If you're going to be overclocking it, try and get the lowest latentency RAM on it (4ns or less, if possible).

The SB Live! 5.1 is probably the best consumer card out there... but there are known problems with compatibility, especially with boards with VIA chipsets.

Run Win2K Pro on it. Seriously. It's the best Microsoft OS I've ever used, including Win2K Server.

So, what's left? Heatsinks... decide on a chip first! Dual DVD/CD-RW drive... well, you won't be able to do a direct copy, and they have been known to be finicky if I recall correctly.

Motherboard? I dunno. IWILL's KK266/KK266R, and that funky new Epox DDR board (ask Gerry for more details on this) are great, apparently. Depends on what type of RAM you're getting.

AND GET AN AGP GRAPHICS CARD!

You'll also need a good case + PSU, and the little finicky things (Mouse/Keyboard/Floppy disk drive).

Hope that's some help.

Gerry

Basically make sure you get a 133mhz fsb Athlon chip. They are known as C chips, as this is marked on the die. The 1.3 is a 100mhz fsb chip, so avoid it.

For a 30 gig hard drive, I'd go for either an IBM 75GXP or a quantum fireball plus as. Theres nothing wrong with any other brand though, if you get a good deal on them. I'd just go with whatever is the best value, though remember 7200rpm drives are noticeably faster.

Its worth splashing out on a good monitor, in fact I would cut back on other things if necessary to ensure you get a good monitor. Think about it, you will appreciate a better picture more than a faster cpu which you may not be fully utilizing. The LG flatron 17" is considerably more expensive than a normal 17" screen, but it is worth it.

The problems with the sblive and via chipset boards can be fixed now with patches, so I wouldn't forsee any major problems there.

Videologic, Klipch (sp), Cambridge Soundworks and Altec Lansing are some good brands of speakers.

For under £250, you should be able to get a geforce2 pro 64mb agp, I know itdirect have them for £215.

I'll recommend a good heatsink when you decide on a chip. You are looking for thermal transfer compound btw, not poly resin Ocuk, and a few other sites have artic silver, which is excellent. Dabs might even have it as well.

Combo DVD/CDRW drives are not always as fast as separate drives, you will need to check the specs carefully. Also there is not always much of a cost saving. With separate drives you will be able to copy on the fly.

In general, there is no one place to get to get all the items cheap. Each place will have good prices on some items, not on them all. If you start buying from more than one place, you will lose on shipping what you saved by shopping around. I'm not going to recommend any one retailer in particular, each seem to have their for and against lobby. Look around this board, and you will see a fair selection of retailers.

Red Moose

I would recommend a separate DVD and CDRW drive. It would add maybe £80 to the cost but it's probably worth it for on the fly copies and reliablility and probably speed as well.

For the DVD research out a brand that is not hardware locked to the DVD region. There are various methods that are used for this, and some drives are doine in hardware and so are not reconfigurable after 5 changes (hey hey, sounds like WIndows XP Product Activation!).

The other type can use say, (in my Hitachi GD5000) an .ini file and in Windows in general it says "Unable to change further" after five (or something to that effect). All you need to do is delete the .ini file and it's okay again (next time it recreates a blank region file and starts at the base region programmed into the drive (Region 2 as I bougth it here).

The CDRW is a different matter. The one thing you really would want to ensure is that it is a BurnPROOF one, which eliminates buffer underruns and thus a tasteful coaster collection to hand on your wall.

The only other thing I'll comment on is the soundcard. Mostly they are all the same basically , but the Creative SB Live with the live-drive breakout box thing that sits in a front 5.25" drive bay and gives you stacks of ports and RCA stuff is damn cool (but yeah mostly wasted....but damn it looks cool).

Also, on the OS front Windows 2000, as mentioned above, is above and beyond the best general user OS for a PC (plus linux of course). It supports a whole load of hardware and is rock solid (if it crashes on you at all I would be surprised). I would also say to definitely get it before Windows XP and XP Professional replace it on the market in October (October 15th I think is the launch). That's purely because of my own XP paranoia.

BIt I added in the edit:

Eyetech (UK company) are selling limited quantities of BurnProof CDRWs 12x10x32 for £109 Sterling. It's a bare drive (the company are an Amiga company mainly, and so deal in sort of "raw" components . http://www.eyetech.co.uk

Incidentally they will also be selling the new Amiga systems.

[This message has been edited by Red Moose (edited 04-08-2001).]

Artur

Aim high with the folowing:

Abit Board preferably a ktz-a raid!

Athlon 4 is out

Geforce 2 Ultra AGP!

256 PC 133 Ram or more!

Seagate OR Western Digital Hard Drive around 20GB is all you need

DVD 12 speed And/Or CDR P.S. if yourgetting a CDR get the best possible they die quickly unless you get the best I suggest an LG 12 speed.

And a 100MB/250MB Panasonic zip Drive handy for backing up stuff. P.S. dont leave zip disks in the DRIVE!! it kills them! take it out when your finished!

Any Creative Sound Card

Cant think of anything else now!

---

Need your Computer repaired E-Mail me at
Artur@Ireland.com

Samson

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Red Moose:
I would recommend a separate DVD and CDRW drive. It would add maybe £80 to the cost but it's probably worth it for on the fly copies and reliablility and probably speed as well.</font>

One thing to add to this:
If you want to copy a CD "on the fly" you will need to have the CDROM and the CDR on different IDE channels as two IDE devices cannot be accessed on the one channel at the same time.

Carnate

Just a quick question are you going to buy a pc with those specs or are you going to build one?

if your buying forget it very few places will build you a pc of that spec cheap!!

I build Pc's and I have found that buying parts is cheaper in da long run, also if your worried about guarantees you get standard 12 months on all parts bought!

the savings are good and building it yourself is very gratifing.

Samson

An addendum to my last post:

For on the fly copies:
HD = primary master
CDROM = primary slave
CDR = secondary master

Normal setup:
HD = primary master
CDR = secondary master
CDROM = secondary slave

Fidelis

I'd probably get a good deal of satisfaction from building it myself but at the same time I'd hate to bust a £250 chip through my own incompetence

I'm not sure whether it'd be worth my while to order from Britain either, the exchange rate and all

JustHalf

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Artur:
Abit Board preferably a ktz-a raid!</font>

Shut up.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Artur:
Athlon 4 is out</font>

Out released, or out don't buy it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Artur:
Geforce 2 Ultra AGP!</font>

Explain why? The Ultra doesn't perform all that much better than the Pro, which is cheaper.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Artur:
256 PC 133 Ram or more!</font>

Why does it have to be SDRAM? Explain.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Artur:
Seagate OR Western Digital Hard Drive around 20GB is all you need</font>

Prfft.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Artur:
DVD 12 speed And/Or CDR P.S. if yourgetting a CDR get the best possible they die quickly unless you get the best I suggest an LG 12 speed.</font>

Mmh. If they die quick they're inside their warranty period (unless someone thinks "quick" is more than a year) and can be returned. Just because a CD-R isn't the best one available doesn't mean (1) it won't work (2) you'll see smoke pouring out of it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Artur:
And a 100MB/250MB Panasonic zip Drive handy for backing up stuff. P.S. dont leave zip disks in the DRIVE!! it kills them! take it out when your finished!</font>

With a ray gun!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Artur:
Any Creative Sound Card</font>

What? Make sense. The SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 Player is much better than the Soundblaster PCI 512.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Artur:
Cant think of anything else now!</font>

Thank god.

Scrap

just half : you seem to know what your talking about when it comes to RAM.

I bought 256mb 133mhz ram from jungle.com yesterday ..thinking my gateway computer came with 133mhz.

I opened up the computer bout an hour ago only to find out that my 128mb ram was infact 100mhz.

Will i still be able to keep the 256mb 133mhz ram when it comes, and will it give better/worse performance than if i had of bought 100mhz ram instead?

Scrap

rofl, i just read that last post you made

what a way to put a man down...

JustHalf

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Scrap:
Will i still be able to keep the 256mb 133mhz ram when it comes, and will it give better/worse performance than if i had of bought 100mhz ram instead?</font>

It will work, but at a 100MHz speed. I have a 128Mb stick of Infineon PC133 RAM running in one of my machines at 66MHz, so it should be fine.

The performance should be roughly the same as your old RAM, though with more RAM your PC will probably run faster (depending on the load).

And, after Artur was offering his l33t repairing skillZ out earlier, it had to be done

Scrap

so im gonna have 384mb 100mhz ram -- my computer will be UNSTOPPABLE !!!!11

JustHalf

Pah. Have you not heard of DDR?

Scrap

yup, and i have also heard of Ferraris ... and i aint gettin' either

Gerry

The question is not "Will this pc133 work a lower speed". Newer pc133 ram will have slightly different chip designs, and higher density, (for example, you may have trouble with a single-sided 256mb dimm). In 99% of cases it is fine.

In modern machines, all the ram must run at the same speed, so as dave says, putting pc133 ram in a machine which has a 100mhz bus, will not be any faster than putting in 100mhz ram.