utv broadband(NI)

skrobe

UTV Internet will launch a broadband service for its Northern Ireland customers in the next few weeks.
UTV chairman John McGuckian told the company's AGM that the recent changes in wholesale prices made it possible to offer a broadband product.


Pricing will be STG27.50 monthly including VAT, according to Scott Taunton, managing director of UTV Internet. Both BT and Freeserve currently offer ADSL access at STG29.99 a month including VAT. UTV Internet will also give customers the option to rent a DSL modem for around STG5 monthly or buy it outright, Taunton said.


"We're trying to make life easier for people by keeping the joining fees low," Taunton told ElectricNews.Net.


UTV Internet CTO Martin Lyons said the company would love to be able to offer customers in the Republic the flat rate and broadband service.


"The regulatory environment does not make it easy. Wholesale lines are not down to the level where we think it is cost-effective to launch a residential service but we expect that to change," he said.


the price kinda(!)throws out eircons arguments about small population and distribution . interesting bit about how he reckons the 'enviroment will change soon:)

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by skrobe
interesting bit about how he reckons the 'enviroment will change soon:)

Maybe it's just me being a cynic as usual but I'll believe it when I see it.

Unless someone opens a big can of whoop-ass on Eircom we won't see a major drop in the price of ADSL or a flat-rate/FRIACO product launched. Eircom are just making so much money from the current ADSL pricing and the per-minute dial-up pricing model that they will not give that up unless they are forced to. As it stands they cannot be forced to do it so we will not see any significant changes for the foreseeable future unless Philip Nolan and the top-dogs at Eircom have a sudden and massive change of heart.

Recently I've read conflicting reports about what's happening in the background. I've read statements from Esat saying that Eircom are stalling and wrecking any possible negotiations with regards to flat-rate. Then I've read a statement a couple of days later on ENN from Esat saying that they are hoping to get a flat-rate service operating by Christmas provided Eircom and the ODTR pull together with Esat to get it up and running. Then a couple of weeks ago I read an article in the paper asking why there was no flat-rate in this country and Esat said exactly what they said to begin with and seemed all doom and gloom again.

As you can see, nobody seems to know what the hell is going on and I'm fed up getting my hopes up only for them to be dashed again. That's why I take every single thing I read now with a huge pinch of salt and, as I said, I will believe these things when I see them.

dahamsta

[Speaking personally...]

I have to say that I've just about had enough of Esat's poor-me bullshot. Eircom are our primary (and self-made) so-called "enemy", but Esat have lied, abused and misled Irish Internet users - via the naive and uninformed media for the most part - since this whole unfortunate debacle began.

They lied about NoLimits with false advertising; they cut people off that self-same service with no notice whatsoever; they lied about the reasons behind that (and got caught rotten in the process); they've consistently lied about their application for flat-rate service (the ODTR disclaims all knowledge of either an application or negotiations), to such a degree that their Chief Executive himself deliberately and maliciously misled the press with claims that the problem was out of their hands; and they continue to feed the press all manner of guff about maltreatment, without providing any evidence whatsoever to prove it -- evidence that they have and can legitimately use.

Of course, the latter point doesn't necessarily say that Esat aren't being discriminated against by Eircom - I would find it hard to believe that they weren't - but they know as well as anyone that if they actually want to get anything done, they have to lodge an official complaint with the ODTR -- which Freedom of Information requests have proven they have not done. All of this leads me to believe, as I have done for quite some time, that Esat are content to settle for the status quo, and will continue to behave in this manner until someone puts them on the spot. In other words, Esat are just as guilty as Eircom in this whole pathetic scenario.

Whether this is in collusion with Eircom (in which case Esat's actions would be illegal) or not, there is absolutely no doubt left in my mind that Esat's actions are by design; that they are a deliberate attempt to control the market and screw Irish Internet users to the wall at every available opportunity. And they are not the only guilty parties here: The Regulator and her Office proclaim innocence at every turn, with arguable and often facecious facts and figures tossed about willy-nilly; the latest and most galling being the Regulator's apparent "shock" at the state of the Internet marketplace in Ireland, something IrelandOffline has been shouting about at the top of it's voice for an entire year now.

I'm increasingly of the belief that IrelandOffline is going to have to start thinking about getting "militant" with the organisations responsible. I'm talking about boycotts, I'm talking about petitions and protests, I'm talking about complaining to the Competition Authority and the ODTR, and I'm talking about taking it to Europe if and when the CA and the ODTR fail to take action against what is, when you get right down to it, an utterly transparent abuse and misuse of power. An abuse of power by the companies involved in the marketplace, and a misuse of power by the agency that is supposed to be promoting competition in this sick little marketplace that these companies appear to treat like a game.

We've tried it democratically, and now that the dust has settled after the election, we're left with the same people in power; people that are content to sit on the sidelines and pretend that competition will sort out the whole sorry mess. Well, it won't. I think it's time we got nasty with these nasty people. I think it's time they got a taste of their own evil-tasting medicine. I think it's time to start hurting brands. See that Eircom ad up there? We know what it stands for -- I think it's time we let other people know.

adam

aidan_dunne

Adam, you've basically said everything that needs to be said on the subject right there and I agree 100% with all of it.

I agree that Esat aren't doing enough. I agree that the ODTR is only putting on an act of being 'naive' about the whole situation. I agree that both Esat and Eircom seem perfectly happy to let the status quo continue. After all, as I said, they're making so much out of the per-minute dial-up pricing model they wouldn't give it up in favour of what the customer wants; flat-rate access.

I am totally pissed off with all of this. I've said in an e-mail to David Long (IOFFL Chairman) that we need to get tougher with Eircom, Esat, the ODTR, the DoPE and the politicians. They all seem to be treating it as some sort of game, as you said Adam, but it is not a bloody game. The internet in this country, the IT services sector in this country and our ability to compete in the international IT market is at stake here. This is too high a stakes game to be playing and something will have to be done about it straight away.

And one other thing you said, Adam, that confirms something I've suspected for a long time but couldn't say in case it wasn't true. You said how it has been shown through Freedom of Information requests that Esat have not requested the implementation of FRIACO from the ODTR. I had a funny feeling this was the case all along and now my suspicions have been confirmed. This proves my point above; that Esat and Eircom really don't care about flat-rate and will continue to milk the current per-minute pricing model for as much as they can. Does this mean there is collusion between Eircom and Esat? Who knows but I smell a (Eircom!) rat here.

Neil_Sedaka

Well done Adam.

Dangger

The answers we got, during the meeting with Esat in which we discussed the freedom of information requests were guarded to say the least.

After we stated that we had the FOI requests showing that an official refusal from the incumbant had not been made we put it to Esat to explain. The answer, at first skirted around the edges, and on further pressing their feelings were made clear. They felt that they should not have to go and negotiate, it should be a product that was available, such as an interconnect offering.

When we met them it was just after Richard Cooke had left and Bill Murphy was on his was way. It had been highlighted in the press that Esat had been losing money hand over fist. I guess they saw no immediate benefit in continuing to run around in circles by focusing so much of their resources on negotiating the release of a wholesale offering from the incumbant.

But I cannot understand why ESAT did not blow the whislte on these un-ending negotiations they entered for FRIACO back in June 1998. I cannot understand why there was no refusal from Eircom - UNLESS they did manage to keep the negotiations going for several years! Neither can I understand why the ODTR did not set the clock on the duration of the negotiations. Why if they were going on so long did they all sit and grin at the IOFFL seminar last year.

There appear to have been serious failings on Esat's management of the situation, and now of course it could be argued that in the race to sign up ADSL customers, Esat feel they must focus on ADSL, overlooking the flat rate market, after all thats what Eircom are doing....right?

Dangger

Forgot to add that we are meeting with UTV Internet on the 12th of June.

Xian

Originally posted by dahamsta
[Speaking personally...]

DahamstaRant. Does exactly what it says on the tin.

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by Dangger
They felt that they should not have to go and negotiate, it should be a product that was available, such as an interconnect offering.

What a complete load of bo***cks! If there is no product in place and the ODTR can't force Eircom to offer it then the only way to get it is to negotiate. Do they honestly think Eircom are suddenly going to start offering FRIACO out of the goodness of their own hearts? Obviously not so somebody has to make the approach to them and try to talk them around to offering it if they can't be forced into doing it. Basically they seem to be saying, "We're not going to negotiate on a product that should be there in the first place," but how the hell do they expect the product to made available if somebody doesn't do it? It's not going to suddenly appear out of thin air.

Originally posted by Dangger
I guess they saw no immediate benefit in continuing to run around in circles by focusing so much of their resources on negotiating the release of a wholesale offering from the incumbant.

So what was all this talk about them being in constant negotiations with Eircom all about then? They said that they had been in negotiations with Eircom for ages and there was no sign of a light at the end of the tunnel. If that was the case, why did they continue with these negotiations and continue trying to flog a dead horse by negotiating with Eircom? It was obviously getting them nowhere so they should have just said, "Right, this isn't working. Let's make a formal submission to the ODTR for a FRIACO product and work with the ODTR to try and get Eircom to offer FRIACO because we can't do it ourselves." Why continue to drag out the negotiations with Eircom when they we're obviously going nowhere?

Originally posted by Dangger
There appear to have been serious failings on Esat's management of the situation, and now of course it could be argued that in the race to sign up ADSL customers, Esat feel they must focus on ADSL, overlooking the flat rate market, after all thats what Eircom are doing....right?

I agree that the whole flat-rate issue has been seriously over-shadowed with the whole ADSL thing. What Esat and Eircom don't seem to realise is that not everybody wants or needs ADSL and certainly won't pay the kinds of prices they are asking for it. Most users could happily get along with 56K dial-up but they do not want to continue paying the ridiculous phone bills they are at the moment. All we want is to be able to pay say €20 a month and be able to use the net whenever we want at that one, all-in price. Is that too much to ask? Also, they don't seem to realise that they could attract lots of new customers if flat-rate was available because lots of people would like to get on the net but won't because of fear of driving up a huge phone bill. However, if a flat-rate product was available they would know exactly how much they were paying each month and would gladly sign up. Are Esat and Eircom so blind that they cannot see all the potential customers they could get by making a flat-rate product available? I guess they must be and, if that's the case, they need to go and have their eyes tested immediately!