RTE lobbying for licence fee increase

Mailman

Maybe, I don't know enough about it but it seems to me that RTE are looking for a licence fee increase to subsidise an inefficient operation.

I was in RTE earlier this year and was stunned by the size of the place. It is a massive land bank and it's questionable whether they really need it all.
I'd move them just to get a couple of thousand people housed close to the city center.

In the news it has been reported that they set aside 21.5M for 150 redundancies.
Now, for me this seems to be a huge amount - something like 140,000 per employee being made redundant.

Paying for Sky to carry their channels seemed crazy - it always seemed to me that Sky, the medium needed RTE, the content more than the other way around.

As a licence payer( and I do pay a licence) I wonder is my money being used efficently.

Also, the amount they pay An Post to collect the licence seems to be too much since something like 1 in 10 households don't pay their licence.

As a lot of their costs are associated with foreign programming(UK, US) which they are using our licence fee to compete with TV3 to purchase I think we can afford to let them lose a couple of programs to TV3 as the public are able to switch over to TV3 if they really want to see them and it'll allow TV3 to get rid of some of the cheaper rubbish they broadcast instead.

Am I being unfair.

I do acknowledge good things like
political programming
TG4
news desk
some short series commissioned in the last year

but I still don't think I'm getting value for money or that the broadcaster is efficient.

Victor

Originally posted by Mailman
Paying for Sky to carry their channels seemed crazy - it always seemed to me that Sky, the medium needed RTE, the content more than the other way around.

And why would Sky be interested in this deal if it costs them money to broadcast and RTÉ gets all the licence fee and advertising money?

Mailman

Because they want to expand in Ireland and they certainly wouldn't have got a foothold in Dublin without carrying RTE1, RTE2. Nobody could afford to ditch NTL or Chorus without knowing they could receive these two channels without erecting an aerial which isn't allowed in many places and nobody would want to be paying both a Satellite and Cable bill every month.

Carrying UK Gold isn't going to win Sky many customers in Ireland.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Mailman


As a licence payer( and I do pay a licence) I wonder is my money being used efficently.

You wonder!?!?!?

RTE is run by incompetents. Before granting any licence fee increase, the first thing they should do is fire the entire RTE Authority.
I mean, who decided to hire Pat Kenny as host of the Late Late?
They know nothing about television.

bonkey

Originally posted by Mailman
As a licence payer( and I do pay a licence) I wonder is my money being used efficently.

Well, I dunno if its changed in recent years, but I remember this debate the last time they looked for a license increase.

RTE is not just 2 TV channels. It also covers a multitude of radio channels. In addition to broadcasting the company supports the National Symphony Orchestra, the RTE Concert Orchestra, the RTE Vanburgh String Quartet and a Philharmonic Choir.

The basic argument they put forward is that the primary TV and radio stations are pretty much self-sufficient, and that its all of the other expenditure is where the license fee goes.

So - is it good value for money? I guess that depends on whether you see it as their job to fund these non-broadcasting and loss-making areas. I'm not convinced they should - I dont see why my owning a television means I have to pay for some classical orchestra I have no interest in, never intend to see, and which has nothing to do with my television. It would be a bit like being charged a road-tax on your weekly shopping, as far as I'm concerned.

Having said that, I feel that supporting the classical arts has to be some government or sem-state body's job, which would ultimately mean that if it wasnt on my tv license, itd be on my tax bill.

jc

Shinji

In addition to broadcasting the company supports the National Symphony Orchestra, the RTE Concert Orchestra, the RTE Vanburgh String Quartet and a Philharmonic Choir.

Yes, and that's all wonderful stuff and very worthy indeed - it's something I'm happy to see licence fee money being spent on. Same goes for the RTE website actually - there's some superb stuff on there.

Unfortunately you can't say that for the TV channels, and while they may be breaking even, given the amount of advertising on them (bear in mind that the BBC runs no advertising on any of its channels!) they should be making a profit. The fact is that RTE have chosen to enter into bidding wars for events and TV shows - a practice which is downright stupid for a state broadcaster. Their job, as a non-commercial body, is to promote the creation of and showing of things which would not be viable for the commercial stations - not to compete with commercial stations!

There are a great many things - documentaries, historical programs, in-depth news analysis type programs, minority interest shows - which the majority of people would not be interested in, and which therefore would never find their way onto a commercial channel. The job of a non-commercial channel should be to create and show these things, becuase they CAN. The football, yank teen soaps and movies will ALWAYS find their way onto a commercial channel; the creation of original content and display of minority interest content will not, and that's what RTE should be there to do, rather than trying to win a ratings war...

Elmo

1. RTE and TV3 and TG4 did not pay sky to be on their service.

2. Sky want them as they get viewers.

3. TV3 makes one major show a year discluding their News Service.

4. RTE have to be there so someone will make Irish TV as TV3 won't.

5. Let RTE One be a PBS channel as it practicaly is already.

6. What is PBS in Ireland? does it include Irish Drama.

7. TV3 show 9 mins of adds per hour and RTE shows 6mins of Adds per hour.

8. TG4 produce lots of drama on a low budget, TV3 have yet to provide any.

9. What do you want RTE to be.

10. At the moment it is a broadcaster (radio and TV), Music Maker, Publisher.

11. Let N2 make a profit or Give it over to Indepent producers who will make Irish TV. i.e. they rent and provide the shows.

Mailman

So did the deal where RTE were going to pay SKY 6Million to carry their channels that was reported in the press late last year fall through? And if it did were management in RTE incompetent in offering so much anyhow especially considering how NTL and Chorus were about to demand payment for carrying the stations.

Any views on RTE's property portfolio?

Any views on distributing the licence fee amongst the local channels? As it is most of the best stuff over the last few years wasn't made by RTE, it was commissioned by them.

Any views on RTE's inability to bring forward new talent.

Any views on the re-organisation costs.

Any views on the cost of collecting the Licence Fee through An Post and it's inability to enforce compliance.

Bidding wars??

I've still got an open mind here.

beardedchicken

Originally posted by bonkey

In addition to broadcasting the company supports the National Symphony Orchestra, the RTE Concert Orchestra, the RTE Vanburgh String Quartet and a Philharmonic Choir.

unfortunately, the very fact that they are controlled by the RTÉ is stifling these orchestras and choirs.

before it became the National Symphony Orchestra, it was the RTE symphony orchestra, and it was unable to explore new creative avenues, becaus eof lack of funding, and also because it was controlled by what is primarily a broadcasting company. now that it has changed to the National Symphony Orchestra, it's a professional orchestra, comparable to any other on the world stage, and it can be truly thought of as a national orchestra, which is great!

as far as i know, the RTE philharmonic choir now want to do the same, and become the National Philhamonic Choir. we don't really have an official national choir, but the rte phil needs proper recognition, because that's really what they are- the national choir. it would mean that the choir would become semi-professional, and possibly later professional, and they would eb able to tour the world, something they haven't been able to do as the rte choir in years, if at all.

so, what was my point? umm.........

bonkey

Originally posted by beardedchicken
before it became the National Symphony Orchestra, it was the RTE symphony orchestra, and it was unable to explore new creative avenues, becaus eof lack of funding, and also because it was controlled by what is primarily a broadcasting company. now that it has changed to the National Symphony Orchestra, it's a professional orchestra, comparable to any other on the world stage, and it can be truly thought of as a national orchestra, which is great!

Yeah - but isnt it still funded by the same company - RTE? I could be mistaken, but AAFAIK, when they changed the name and the direction, they didnt actually break with RTE.

On a vaguely related note :

The fact is that RTE have chosen to enter into bidding wars for events and TV shows - a practice which is downright stupid for a state broadcaster. Their job, as a non- commercial body, is to promote the creation of and showing of things which would not be viable for the commercial stations - not to compete with commercial stations!

I would agree with Shinji here, but the creation of indeps was really really badly managed over the past few decades, to the extent that the non-commercial bosy had the option of either providing these shows/events to the nation (after the costly bidding war), or tell the ppl who cant get more than 2 channels because of their physical location to go screw themselves. I mean - look at the furore when TV3 won over Coro from RTE. There was outcry that in excess of 30% of the Coro Irish viewership would disappear, because those people could not multichannel.

Yes, its a slightly backwards view in this day and age, but I can see why the state-owned company seeks to provide a service to all that the profit-driven would never consider rolling out to such a large extent. I'm not saying theyre right, nor that they did a good job, just that I can understand the logic.

jc

212.2.179.66

RTE = Total Rip Off

Crap! that's my licence gone up another €20

but they are.... CRAP!


212.2.179.66

Bateman

Its no surprise they want a licence increase. Yesterday onJoe Duffy, talking to Ray Tracey: "we're taking a break for the news, Ray, stay on the line".
Ray Tracey is in Japan.

Originally posted by Bateman
Its no surprise they want a licence increase. Yesterday onJoe Duffy, talking to Ray Tracey: "we're taking a break for the news, Ray, stay on the line".
Ray Tracey is in Japan.

I'm laughing out loud and rolling around:)

In reply to mailman.
RTÉ as Elmo has stated above did not pay one penny to Sky to appear on their platform.
There was a lot of speculation that they would have to pay them a large sum based on the figure ITV handed over.
It was a sort of You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours deal.
RTÉ were losing hundreds of thousands of EURO due to the increasing popularity of the Sky digital platform.Sky one and Sky news both carry ROI advertising.
There were at least 200,000 subscribers at the time RTÉ decided to get into bed with Murdock. That represents up to one million potential viewers of programmes on the system.
Advertisers were deserting RTÉ as Sky digital users viewing habits were changing to such an extent that they were unwilling to switch too often back to analog RTÉ.

So the effect of the "free carriage" deal is supposed to benefit Sky by attracting more customers and for RTEÉ to suffer less from falling viewer figures.

Regarding ineffeciencies in RTÉ , theres loads of them.
To thrash that one out , you would have to talk to the unions, who don't seem to understand that money doesn't grow on trees it has to be earned and the company has to make a profit.
I think the licence fee must go up, but only if RTÉ are made mor effecient.It is essential that both are connected and that Public service broadcasting is preserved.
mm

Elmo

RTE = Total Rip Off

And how do the other channels rate. Lets face it most tv channels are crap.

Fine we don't pay for TV3 but do they make much irish tv, actually what other TV channels in Ireland Other then RTE 1, N2 and TG4 make Irish TV?

And If someone could tell me what Public Service Broadcasting is in Ireland And what do you expect from your lience fee.

Originally posted by Elmo
And If someone could tell me what Public Service Broadcasting is in Ireland And what do you expect from your lience fee.

Well home produced drama's,documentaries and current affairs.
Plenty on RTÉ, few and far between on TV3.
Ear to the ground although an independent production, is indirectly financed by the licence fee.The advertisers wouldn't be queuing up for a slot on it!
Yet RTÉ puts it on at half eight on a monday night ie at primetime.
TV3 would have to apply strict market place rules to the likes of that programme-so they wouldn't even commission it.
There are several other examples.
mm

Mailman

Rather than getting bogged down with the actual programming provided how about looking at the restructuring costs which to my mind are huge.
The land bank and the amount of programming produced in-house is of interest to me too.
And I still don't think the licence is being collected efficently.

Anyone know anything about any of these subjects.

On the matter of Sky I was of the impression that the deal was done and dusted until Chorus and Cablelink threw a spanner in the works and got the politicians involved. If this is true, then I think RTE were incompetent in their negotiations with Sky.

On the matter of 'ear to the ground' I think that they are able to sell advertising to slot around that program because it is an easy way of reaching a targetted market i.e. Farmers in just the same way that Drive is a nice program to advertise around for motoring companies. I'm not saying the program makes money. I'm just saying that they should be able to partly finance it through advertising and Financial institutions are interested in advertising around Agenda on TV3.

Please exclude TG4 as I feel their execution has been flawless with regard to that station as they have followed the model that was laid out by S4C before hand unless you strongly believe otherwise. But then TG4 is in many ways a seperate entity to RTE as it has considerable autonomy.

Elmo

Ear To the Ground has a reach of 350,000 viewer when not up againist new episodes of Friends on Network two Either way RTE receive about 500,000 veiwers at 8.30 on monday nights, unless there is A special Corro st on TV3.

Restructing cost, why do RTE have so many heads at their organisation, would it not be better and reduce cost if they got rid off them rather then the workers? It would save them about 4,000,000 euros alone on that i am sure they get paid plently and i am also sure that most people are laughing at that thinking they get paid alot more but it is only my guess.

RTE should sell off some of its land and lease it back off the owners or move out of montrose but then we have a situation like with Cablelink were RTE receive one sum of money which they waste on...... what ..... i mean what happened the £350,000,000 they received. Some went to Eircom i know.

Yes TG4 is exclent must i say that again and again. IMO if TV3 had a schedule like TG4 in English they would be the number one channel in Ireland at this stage. But then its easier to buy in Imports. and they wouldnt have had to worry about Corronation Street.

Most feature shows on RTE reach 500,000 viewers ie House Hunters, Beyond the hall door, Off the Rails etc.

Why do TV3 insist on have 2 and a half hours of morning TV a day when no one watches it would it not be better business sence if they put that money into Prime Time Feature Programming which will reach 500,000 viewers?

Originally posted by Elmo
Ear To the Ground has a reach of 350,000 viewer when not up againist new episodes of Friends on Network two Either way RTE receive about 500,000 veiwers at 8.30 on monday nights, unless there is A special Corro st on TV3.

Restructing cost, why do RTE have so many heads at their organisation, would it not be better and reduce cost if they got rid off them rather then the workers? It would save them about 4,000,000 euros alone on that i am sure they get paid plently and i am also sure that most people are laughing at that thinking they get paid alot more but it is only my guess.

RTE should sell off some of its land and lease it back off the owners or move out of montrose but then we have a situation like with Cablelink were RTE receive one sum of money which they waste on...... what ..... i mean what happened the £350,000,000 they received. Some went to Eircom i know.

Yes TG4 is exclent must i say that again and again. IMO if TV3 had a schedule like TG4 in English they would be the number one channel in Ireland at this stage. But then its easier to buy in Imports. and they wouldnt have had to worry about Corronation Street.

Most feature shows on RTE reach 500,000 viewers ie House Hunters, Beyond the hall door, Off the Rails etc.

Why do TV3 insist on have 2 and a half hours of morning TV a day when no one watches it would it not be better business sence if they put that money into Prime Time Feature Programming which will reach 500,000 viewers?

You are answering the question in your own post.
Programmes like beyond the hall door etc are public service programmes.They are also very good quality programmes and therefore are well watched.
TV3 would not have the resources to finance these programmes.The money the advertisers put in for 3-500 K viewers would not pay for them-thats where the licence fee comes in.
It's a different case in the UK where it would cost relatively the same money for ITV to produce these types of programmes-BUT while they may not get the same audience as a good drama,the advertising revenue for the millions of viewers there would justify.
However in the UK, commercial companies like Granada and Carlton prefer to maximise profits by investing in Drama which brings in the Revenue.Mind you they get companies to sponsor the programmes as well as get in the money from the commercial breaks.RTÉ have also had to resort to this.

Regarding Ireland AM on TV3- That show is dirt cheap to produce and is only on the air so as TV3 can meet it's current affairs output requirement as laid down by the Broadcasting commission of Ireland who are responsible for giving it a licence.

mm

Elmo

Programmes like beyond the hall door etc are public service programmes.They are also very good quality programmes and therefore are well watched.

TV3 would not have the resources to finance these programmes

Regarding Ireland AM on TV3- That show is dirt cheap to produce and is only on the air so as TV3 can meet it's current affairs output requirement as laid down by the Broadcasting commission of Ireland who are responsible for giving it a licence.

Sorry But as these feature programmes are dirt cheap to make thus the get viewers and thus you make money thus you can spend money on them.

Ireland AM does not have to go out at all. TV3 dose not need to provide a morning serive and show cheap american programmes during the day. I am assuming that reporters and presenters get paid extra for the early start, like most workers. As it is a feature programme just in the morning why not produce them at night?

TG4 produces the same kind of programming on 16,000,000 euros a year. TV3 have more than this to produce and buy in programmes. And as they will get viewers thus they will make money out of cheap feature programmes and also make money with such imports like Corro St and Emmerdale.

Also is the BCIs requirements just for News and Current affair. If it is it should be canged for more home produced progamming in general. BCI needs more control.

Culchie Boy

To hell with rte and sky. Rte is only blocking All G.A.A matches on sky and they are also blocking the little matter of the world cup YES THE WORLD CUP on sky. If the new goverment have any brains they will privatise rte. and scrap the license fee. Look at tv3 a private channel a million miles better than rte.

Regards Culchie Boy

Cork

RTE is a commercial station. Lets scrap the licence fee. Who watchs Ear To the Ground? How much agricultural information is on it?

Does It not seem to contain many fluff pieces?

Elmo

Look at tv3 a private channel a million miles better than rte.

It is just the best channel in the whole world it provides so much entertaining and inovative television, The News with Lorriane Keane Their Entertainment Gal, and that Martin King sure hes the king of the weather, Ireland AM just so reminds me of the 80s and that was the best decade for TV next to the 70s and Haunted House wow how exciting and and and and and and god why dont i pay my licence fee to the lads in TV3 their the best oh my god. And they have Corronation Street and Emmerdale and they dont remind me of ITV over in england gosh no. Goodie gum drops i love TV (little whisper) Tree.

Who watchs Ear To the Ground?

350,000 viewers each week as there is nothing better on, see above.

Originally posted by Elmo


Sorry But as these feature programmes are dirt cheap to make thus the get viewers and thus you make money thus you can spend money on them.

Ireland AM does not have to go out at all. TV3 dose not need to provide a morning serive and show cheap american programmes during the day. I am assuming that reporters and presenters get paid extra for the early start, like most workers. As it is a feature programme just in the morning why not produce them at night?

TG4 produces the same kind of programming on 16,000,000 euros a year. TV3 have more than this to produce and buy in programmes. And as they will get viewers thus they will make money out of cheap feature programmes and also make money with such imports like Corro St and Emmerdale.

Also is the BCIs requirements just for News and Current affair. If it is it should be canged for more home produced progamming in general. BCI needs more control.

I dissagree-You are forgetting that a station has to make money to survive when it is advertising funded only.
This is why TV3 buy US programming and rely heavily on UK imports provided very kindly by their sponsor Granada.
Minimum outlay, for maximum audience and maximum revenue.
They balance using shows like Buffy and Angel etc to bring in the viewers.
Ireland AM is a magazine, news and current affairs show.
Two and a half hours per day of that show, produced dirt cheap is helping to fulfill TV3's BCI news andHome produced Irish Programming requirements.

If TV3 used their budget to make programmes, they would go bust.

Regarding TG4-While it is laudable to have it there-I think they should switch off it's analog transmitters.
The service is available on Sky and cable.
Skys value pack for instance would carry it for less than the price of a chinese meal once a month.
Nationwide UHF transmission costs RTÉ a fortune for such a tiny audience, money that would be better spent reducing their defecit.
mm

Elmo

Regarding TG4-While it is laudable to have it there-I think they should switch off it's analog transmitters.
The service is available on Sky and cable.
Skys value pack for instance would carry it for less than the price of a chinese meal once a month.
Nationwide UHF transmission costs RTÉ a fortune for such a tiny audience, money that would be better spent reducing their defecit.

Why dont TV3 just do this their a commercial company.

Would this solution not give more power to Sky and NTL.

Not everyone has the price of a chinese meal a month.

It would not provide the service it is there to provide which is Irish TV not a cable network to provide money to Rupert Murdock.

Why do they bother with UHF transmission for TV3 and TG4 anyway you get a terrible reception with it they should both be on VHF.

The reason we have the licence fee is for Lyric FM, RnaG and TG4 which all provide a Public Broadcast Service.

They balance using shows like Buffy and Angel etc to bring in the viewers.

They maximum an American TV show gets on TV3 is 200,000 viewers. Angel and Buffy get 140,000 viewers.

If the weakest link had been presented by anyone else but Eamonn Dunphy it would have got 400,000 viewers each week, but then they wasted their time with that show, and it slowly went down to around 140,000 viewers each week.

TV3 gets 500,000 - 200,000 viewers for Corronation Street, Emmerdale, Champions League and Heartbeat. They are their top ten programmes the rest get from 150,000 viewers to 100,000 viewers.

RTE One has a range of 700,000 viewers for the Late Late to 350,000 viewers for Xit Poll.

While Network 2 gets 350,000 viewers to 140,000 viewers in their top twenty.

Any time RTE produce an Irish Show it nearly always gets in to the top twenty as do most irish shows produced by TV3.

There must be some one willing to make irish TV.

If we get rid of the liecence we get rid of Irish TV and a voice.

I have to hand it to you Elmo for the Viewing figures...
Theres no point in saying to me that RTÉ are good and TV3 are bad as in any post I've done over in ICDG, I regularly preach that Gospel-I am simply playing devils advocate here;)

The reason I suggest that TG4 should switch off their analog transmitters is that they are mainly publicly funded.
It would make economic sense for anyone that wants that channel to get it via cable or Sky.
I think you should agree that the TV 3 audience is greater by far than TG4 and therefore the economic argument doesn't apply.

I would suggest that the very vast majority of people in the country can pay for a chinese meal every month and therefore Sky or cable.There is in my opinion suffecient programmes free to air on an aerial without TG4 wasting an arm and a leg of public money to provide a few evening westerns and some other english language programmes.

In fact TG4 is costing RTÉ an arm and a leg.
The following is from their website:

"TG4 invests over €15m annually in original Irish programming from the independent production sector in Ireland. This investment supports 350 posts in small private sector companies throughout the island."

Now that is good and I can't argue against it except to say,that those 350 jobs are now in jepordy as if I heard Bob Collins on RTÉ radio yesterday correctly unless RTÉ get their licence hike.
He said the defecit cannot continue to go on as it is and that there would have to be drastic cuts!

The website says "TG4 was established and operates under the statutory umbrella of RTÉ. TG4 receives a programme supply of 365 hours of programming annually from RTÉ, at no cost to TG4."

It is in effect subsidised by the licence fee, and at present eats up much more of it than Lyric FM etc.

Regarding Angel and Buffy and the various other U.S shows on TV3....The audience will rise as a result of TV3 going onto Sky.
While RTÉ covers more than 95% of the countrys land area and up to 98% of the population with it's analog aerial transmissions-TV3 via an aerial covers much less and being soley advertising funded had more to gain by joining the Sky digital platform.

By the way I never argued anywhere in this thread for to get rid of the licence fee.To do that would be complete folly.
I just don't want more money thrown at them without necessary effeciencies.
To do so would be total wastage!
The department of Arts culture(or is it heritage) and the gaeltacht should be paying for TG4's analog transmissions.
The licence fee is there to promote Irish programming and public service programming.
There are cases where Irish programming Makes lots of money for RTÉ eg-Bull Island and what do they do?? they cancel it-ie bad management.
Fair city and Ros na Rún are good licence fee investments albeit with some sponsorship-I hope the same management don't cancel them.
mm

Elmo

I think you should agree that the TV 3 audience is greater by far than TG4 and therefore the economic argument doesn't apply.

You would reduce the TG4 audience in that situation. Also Many of the english programmes get 150,000 viewers on TG4 which is around the same as TV3 when they began.

"TG4 invests over €15m annually in original Irish programming from the independent production sector in Ireland. This investment supports 350 posts in small private sector companies throughout the island."

No it comes from the Exchequer as far as I know not RTE.

TG4 was established and operates under the statutory umbrella of RTÉ. TG4 receives a programme supply of 365 hours of programming annually from RTÉ, at no cost to TG4."

The News and Sin e and many of the Childrens programmes are provided to TG4.

Elmo

The department of Arts culture(or is it heritage) and the gaeltacht

The Department of Arts Culture Heritage Island and the Gaeltacht.

You are mostly correct Elmo.
However again from the TG4 website "TG4 is a Government initiative for public service broadcasting and is funded by the Exchequer. In 2001 the annual amount of current funding it received from the Exchequer was €22.8m. The programme provision it receives from RTÉ each year, at no cost to TG4, has been valued at €7.5m by RTÉ."

Now assuming there are one million households in the Republic.
Thats €7.50 per home of our licence fee supporting TG4.
Surely the licence fee can go up to off set this.
mm

Victor

Sorry for dragging this up again.

Originally posted by Elmo
Fine we don't pay for TV3 but do they make much irish tv, actually what other TV channels in Ireland Other then RTE 1, N2 and TG4 make Irish TV?

UTV, BBC and BBCNI contribute to the sector either on a standalone or joint-venture basis.