Nigeria Ship Baby given IrishCitizenship

JacquesPompidou

Thanks to Nanook and everyone else for their reply on this subject.

Ship Baby granted IrishCitizenship
Now I must say that the current Irish Refugee and Asylum system is a joke, do people not agree?

People say that Ireland has problems with racism, but I think It's nothing when compared to Germany, Australia, Finland....

Here's the story:
A
Baby born on a ferry is entitled to citizenship.
A baby of Nigerian parents on an Irish vessel en route to Ireland is deemed by Law to be an Irish citizen.

The boy was born to a Nigerian woman on board an Irish ferrires vessel the M.V Normandy while it was en roue from Cherbourg in France to Wexford in Ireland.....



Now I feel that the Irish system is a Joke.

I know Spanish friends of mine who came to Ireland, drew the Welfare for free, done free courses in your Universities...
..... Took Rent allowence from the State
.... Free OIL Heat and ESB
Went home to Spain to Work for a Month

And Continued to draw Irish Welfare while working in Spain




......
I know a Woman from Zaire who has recieved immediate priority Welfare, Housing... You name it, because she has a baby.
While Irish people continue to wait 7 or 8 years.


I came to Ireland to expect a strong tradition of Irish history, a powerful culture, strong Music, Celtic art, language.....
And maybe I did find something.

But it has changed.
Ireland reminds me of London, I don't think there's much difference between the culture. All I ever see on TV are English Soaps and English Soccer...

If you walk around Dublin with your eyes closed, you don't hear Irish anymore... You hear Chinese, Spanish, Arabic, Bantu.... One would think it was a dirty run down part New York or London.


About Taking Welfare and milking Ireland for all it's worth.
I think I may do the same.

Many other foreigners are doing it, so why shouldn't I?







Ship baby stroy from Irish Times Friday.

JacquesPompidou

Baz_

Do you have a point?

I thought you were going on about Ireland being racist until I came to the end of the post.

Do you think our welfare system is bad for looking after other EU citizens (if you think they were abusing the system you should have reported them).

Do you think Ireland is becoming a worse country because so many other diverse cultures are coming to Ireland.

Are you in favour of the baby being granted citizenship.

I ask again, do you have a point?

JacquesPompidou

Yes I have a point your Welfare system is a joke!


It does nothing to encourage young immigrants to get up and start tarining for work, and get a job, or educate their children........


Your state gives out too much free money, while the Irish workers & working Irish mothers suffer.........many Irish working class recieve little pay from Factory work, Cleaning Work, Catering Industry Work ...

While people with no motovation for employment recieve your hard earned tax money.

Go to the USA. What do they give instead of money?

Food Stamps.

Maybe this is a better idea.

It would be nice to allow immigarnts with qualifications or certificates into the country.

Do you know why so many unskilled immigrants that have little motovation to work come to Ireland? Economic reasons. The Welfare is easy, and so is Citizenship, so is Asylum.....


Wait another Five years. Then take a walk around Dublin.

Ireland will be far worse than any Part of London or L.A, why because your system is a joke!

I think I may take advantage of it, many other foreigners are.

I'll give Examples if you want, such as free Heating, Transport........



:rolleyes:

sceptre

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou

If you walk around Dublin with your eyes closed, you don't hear Irish anymore... You hear Chinese, Spanish, Arabic, Bantu.... One would think it was a dirty run down part New York or London.

You wouldn't have heard a great deal of Irish spoken on the streets of Dublin if you'd come here when my great-grandfather was my age (that would have been around 1910)

Time travel - it's the only way. I'd heartily recommend it.

I'd much rather live in a country where it's too easy to get welfare than too difficult.

Meh

Ajnag

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou

While people with no motovation for employment recieve your hard earned tax money.

Go to the USA. What do they give instead of money?

Food Stamps.

Maybe this is a better idea.

Yup but that said the us also has one of the highest murder rates in the world, the biggest difference between rich and poor and a 1/4 of the worlds prison population.

Also i honestly think that the immigrants are more willing to work then all the irish bitching about immigration, take this story : chronic alco(unemployed waiting for council house) at home bitching and gossiping bout immigrants in near by town generating false storys about how said immigrants hang round in a certain alley to accost women(tho no ones been attacked yet).

Mean while said immigrants seen ever mourning at 9pm on way into galway city to work for free in volentry posts in medicine and other professions so as to improve their chances of staying.

what I hear and what i actually see are 2 very different things, fact is that most people passionate on immigration take their opions from english tabloids-spot the irony?

am i also not free to go to spain and draw their dole:)

rymus

Originally posted by sceptre
I'd much rather live in a country where it's too easy to get welfare than too difficult.

Indeed!

I'd much rather live in a country that has control over its immigration though. This business of giving citizenship to every refugee baby (and parents) born here is going to be the end of us.

While people with no motovation for employment recieve your hard earned tax money.

Saw this first hand about a week ago. Five Nigerian gentlemen started work here on Monday and were fired on Friday as they turned up for work over 2 hours late each day. Its as if they completely lost the will to do the work after they had gotten through the interview.

I would personally love to see much tighter immigration laws/practices being implemented. Anyway, we'll see what the new government make of the situation

Shinji

I'd much rather live in a country where it's too easy to get welfare than too difficult.

From a selfish point of view, yeah, I guess. It's nice to know that there's that net of support; if I ever wake up in the morning and decide I can't be bothered, then the rest of the taxpayers can look after me....

... Rubbish. Welfare is meant to be a final safety net - it's to hold people off rock bottom until they get back on their feet. But this guy, while he's not making himself shockingly clear, is entirely correct. Welfare right now in Ireland - and elsewhere in Europe - is too damn easy. The dole isn't a safety net, it's a career choice - and that's not how it's supposed to be.

yellum

Originally posted by sceptre


I'd much rather live in a country where it's too easy to get welfare than too difficult.

Well, you're living in it and those that are paying out too much tax like me and as they work harder get taxed even more are mightily pissed off. I'd prefer taxmoney to go to genuine causes like a better health system and removing people from the poverty line.

The welfare system is a joke. Here in Cork a nigerian claimed his kids who got free bus passes were being hasseled on the buses so the local welfare people gave him a cheque to buy a car ! It came out that he wasn't the first immigrant to try this stunt.

The amount of racism being harped on about is a result of stupid welfare decisions like that.

Now, when you are on the dole, barely surviving and you see someone else come into this country, bring all his family over, get a nice house, clothes, not bother getting a job and then given a few grand to buy a car whose petrol is payed by the government, will you still laud such an easy welfare system ?

I'm all for allowing people coming to this country to work. The Irish did well in America and did well for America when they moved en masse there and worked hard. They weren't given houses, cars, food and a weekly wage.

The current welfare system doesn't encourage people to get back on their feet, it encourages them to sit back, put up their feet and live a free life.

Victor

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou
Now I must say that the current Irish Refugee and Asylum system is a joke, do people not agree?

No, people do not necessarily agree. Under pressure, under-staffed, under-appreciated maybe. A joke, not I don't agree.

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou
Here's the story: A Baby born on a ferry is entitled to citizenship. A baby of Nigerian parents on an Irish vessel en route to Ireland is deemed by Law to be an Irish citizen.

And this is the law in most other countries. And I imagine the position in international law. link to Ireland.com story

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou
I know Spanish friends of mine who came to Ireland, drew the Welfare for free, done free courses in your Universities...

As is their right as EU citizens.

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou
I know a Woman from Zaire who has recieved immediate priority Welfare, Housing... You name it, because she has a baby.
While Irish people continue to wait 7 or 8 years.

Deliberatly punishing children is not part of any social welfare code I know.

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou
I came to Ireland to expect a strong tradition of Irish history, a powerful culture, strong Music, Celtic art, language.....

Oooh, you learned something about another culture!

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou
If you walk around Dublin with your eyes closed,

You will soon walk into a streep lamp.

Victor

Originally posted by yellum
The welfare system is a joke. Here in Cork a nigerian claimed his kids who got free bus passes were being hasseled on the buses so the local welfare people gave him a cheque to buy a car ! It came out that he wasn't the first immigrant to try this stunt.
...
Now, when you are on the dole, barely surviving and you see someone else come into this country, bring all his family over, get a nice house, clothes, not bother getting a job and then given a few grand to buy a car whose petrol is payed by the government, will you still laud such an easy welfare system ?

Are you sure the story is as 'wonderful' as you paint it? And do you have any evidence to back it up? (Social Welfare files not being public and all that).

yellum

Originally posted by Victor

Are you sure the story is as 'wonderful' as you paint it? And do you have any evidence to back it up? (Social Welfare files not being public and all that).

What evidence would you like ? The names, addresses, car details of these people ?

Victor

Originally posted by yellum
What evidence would you like ? The names, addresses, car details of these people ?

No just the piece of the social welfare regulations that gives you a car (kindly note that capital of up to €20,000 does not radically affect social welfare entitlements).

yellum

Ah, best talk to the social welfare in cork about that then. It was admitted on a local radio station that this had occured. Its pretty amazing the discretionary powers that some of these offices have.

Reminds me of the way the Boswells in Bread managed to get free foreign holidays out of the welfare office.

Koopa

non-eu immigrants cant come in and live off the dole under current law, unless theyre granted asylum

Blade

Originally posted by rymus
Saw this first hand about a week ago. Five Nigerian gentlemen started work here on Monday and were fired on Friday as they turned up for work over 2 hours late each day. Its as if they completely lost the will to do the work after they had gotten through the interview.

Well now they can go back to the dole office and say 'ok we tried to get work but it didn't work out for us so please givvus that free money'. I've seen Russians come over here and break their b0ll0cks working in jobs where most people wouldn't be caught dead working in and their bloody greatful of any work they can get. But these ar$eholes who quite obviously don't want to work shouldn't get a damn penny of our taxes. And let me be clear about this, I'm talking about ANYONE, white or black, whos able bodied and perfectly capable of filling in the gaps of our labour shortage in Ireland, but who'd rather sit on their hole and live off the rest of us who have to work for a living.

Xterminator

Originally posted by Victor


Deliberatly punishing children is not part of any social welfare code I know.

Hi

Victor have you delibertly missed the point he was making here?

Basically Irish citizens are waiting on long housing ists, with priority assigned on circumstance.
This includes homeless people too. They are queing daily to try to get a flat.
I know this for a fact because my wife voulentarily works on our local housing forum, interviewing prospective tenants, who are waiting and hoping for a flat to live in.

To those people, when they hear storys of immigrants coming here and skipping the q, getting privatly rented accomadation, and being able to 'refuse' certain types of accomadation because the dont think it is up to standard, this is bound to generate unhappyness.

Obviously i can t give you there addresses, because this is not available in the public domain. but this does happen, and these people are making a mockery of the irish poele waiting there turn.

Specifally when they reject accomidation that they feel is not good enough!

Now my solution would be for the emigrants to join the waiting list like everyone else.

But if they refuse a reasonable offer of accomadation, to be sent to the back of the q.
I dont think this is racist, in fact the way it is now is unfairly weighted towards these imigrants.

X

Lei Xiejiang

quote:Victor

---

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou
If you walk around Dublin with your eyes closed,

---

You will soon walk into a Dublin-Junkie with a Syringe or a Dublin-Refugee looking for Spare Change.


Victor is there something wrong with your glasses?Please, take off your specs.

"Victor have you delibertly missed the point he was making here?

Basically Irish citizens are waiting on long housing ists, with priority assigned on circumstance.
This includes homeless people too. They are queing daily to try to get a flat.
I know this for a fact because my wife voulentarily works on our local housing forum, interviewing prospective tenants, who are waiting and hoping for a flat to live in."

amp

I sense this thread contains some (not all) posts making points based on emotion and not cold hard facts. I also sense that Mr Pompidou the immigrant is either a troll or a mildly racist muppet.

We shall be watching further posts of his with interest.

JacquesPompidou

Yes, it's nice for Countries like France, England, Holland, Ireland to be open minded, it's nice for them to allow Immigrants of all colour and religion into the country.

But sometimes the country extends its hand and it gets bit.

What I mean is a country can make a great effort to become open-minded and multi-cultured but sometimes certain foreigners don't make the effort to intergrate into the country.

If you go to another country, what do you do?

If an Irish man goes to Russia to work and live. Will he constantly shout at the Russians "Hey! Speak English" Why don't you do things the Irish Catholic way Commie?"

If "Amp" goes to India, will Amp criticise the Hindu ancestory of the Indian culture, will you slaughter "Cattle" so you can eat your beef steaks?

My point is many Countries like Canada, Germany, Australia have made a point now, that people living in the country have to learn and live with the Culture of their new Country. Maybe Ireland should do this too??

Now Amp if you continue to see this point of view as Racist, then the only "muppet" here is YOU!!

Why should French, German and Irish citizens who are honest workers have to pay Tax for people who just come in to spounge of this system, people who will make no effort to contribute to society , people who are lazy bums regardless of their race, skin colour, religion. ...

Ireland change your system 'cos it's Cr@p!

PS
What's a Troll, & have you been watching too much Lord of the Rings Amp?

Koopa

slaughtering cattle is not outlawed in india, beef steaks are availiable where the demand for it is there

KdjaCL

Jacques do you personally know any of these "immigrants"?
Some may have come from wartorn countries looking for a better way of life.

Some may have come for the free money

Some may have paid thousands to get a job here for 1 hour a day just for the working visa so they can work elsewhere and a life.

Some have the same bills as i do €900 rent and any other bills.

Just because you see a lot of foreign ppl in Dublin and thereabouts dont tar them all with the same brush.

Each of the above i know personally while i cant agree with it all its life.
Irish ppl do it so do foreign ppl.
How many unmarried mothers do you know that really dont know who the father is?

I lived in Germany a few years ago and those problems you say they have i must have missed ,but i did meet 4 Irish guys over there who were on the dole over there because it paid more and they got a flat to stay in.That was 7 years ago.Seems very similiar to your point.

Must check www.Boards.DE and see if you posted the same there 7 years ago about Irish ppl
Kdja

GoneShootin

Moe: You know what really aggravazes me? It's them immigants. They wants all the benefits of living in Springfield, but they ain't even bother to learn themselves the language.
Homer: Hey, those are exactly my sentimonies.
Barney: [babbles]
Moe: Yeah, you said it Barn.

amp

Originally posted by JacquesPompidou

Your right Jacques, so right. In fact, just to show how much I agree with your ideas about not having the right sort of people in a place that you like, I'm deporting you.

Have a nice day

Victor

Originally posted by Xterminator
Victor have you delibertly missed the point he was making here?

If you read the quote ("because she has a baby") you would understand my point. There is no suggestion that she got the accommodation for any other reason.

Accommodation pressures in Ireland have to do with economic and demographic issues not immigrants. (I will find the link).

Originally posted by Lei Xiejiang
Victor is there something wrong with your glasses?Please, take off your specs.

Do you actually have a point to make regarding this?

GoneShootin

And yes killing Cattle is OUTLAWED

not quite :

As far as the Indian laws are concerned, except in the states of Kerala and West Bengal, cows cannot be slaughtered in any other states of India. As per the Supreme Court of India s ruling, cows above the age of fourteen and those who become unuseful for milch or draught purposes can be slaughtered and that too after getting pre and post mortem reports. Many Indian Standard Specifications are also applicable in this whole business, as regards to slaughter and transportation of cows.

But there seems to be utter confusion in the minds of Administrators. A circle from the Commerce Ministry gives a green signal to export veal and meat of young calves, knowing fully well that slaughter of young calves is banned in this country, Though cow slaughter is banned in most of the states of India, cows from Central India i.e. Rajasthan, Haryana , U.P., Punjab and Delhi are either taken to West Bengal or Kerala for slaughter. As on date around 50,000 cows are slaughtered in India everyday.

http://www.planetveggie.com/newsletter/issue_9/story2.html

MrJacque

Very good points Gone Shootin!!

It can be both argued that the Slaughter of Cattle is Both Outlawed and Perfectly Legal in India.



http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/1997_hrp_report/india.html

http://www.oneworld.org/news/asia/india.html
http://www.wsu.edu/~wldciv/brians_syllabus/answers/hindu.html

My pojnt was more, if you were in another country right now, lets say to work for a while, would you not try to blend in with the culture and ways of the country?

In Canada, Sweden, Germany and such places immigrants that want citizenship have to take tests, learn the national anthem, be able to speak the language, often times people have to own a certificate or qualification....Shouldn't Ireland do the same.


Irelands laws are outdated, I think possibly that "Ship Baby " law may go back to times of Irish War or Famine, where the Irish population was declining rapidly.

Shouldn't the Laws change with the times?

Shad0r

Originally posted by Koopa
non-eu immigrants cant come in and live off the dole under current law, unless theyre granted asylum

Sam can you explain what you mean by asylum there?

I know of numerous Nigerian people that are collecting the dole having just arrived in the country. I'm not altogether sure if they have been granted "asylum" or not but as far as I understand it the guys in question can stay for a few years, 2 or 4 or sumthing.

I'm not slightly racist with regard to skin colour. My problem lies with a) uneducated immigrants and b) freeloaders. I dont even have a problem with the uneducated ones as long as they are determined to educate themselves.

If there is a system in place that means that anyone not of irish descent (and thereby havent in any way, via parents etc, contributed to our country through tax) can come to Ireland and sign on the dole and then sit there just collecting it for the time they are here, it needs to be investigated in order to reform it.

What Blade said about Russians breaking the bollox doing **** jobs in order to make a few quid is absolutly right. I've seen it and its a credit to them.

Shinji hit the nail on the head when he said that the dole should be a safety net and not a career choice.

I'll finish with a question:

Is it right in any way or for any reason that the Russian people that I know and was talking about above live in middling to ok accomodation and have to work 50 to 60 hour weeks when there are Nigerian* people in Ireland that sponge off the state and then suppliment their income by selling drugs or are involved in other crimes?

* and this is not a generalisation as I'm sure its not every Nigerian or for that matter Russian.

Victor

Originally posted by MrJacque
Irelands laws are outdated, I think possibly that "Ship Baby " law may go back to times of Irish War or Famine, where the Irish population was declining rapidly.

Why do you speculate as to the origin of this law instead of asking or reserching it? I haven't read the judgement, but there are (a) constitutional grounds (1998 - hardly out of date) (b) maritime law grounds.

amp

Thread locked as it's causing too much muppetry.

Jacques and his other nicks have been banned for deliberate inflamatory comments.