FF set for overall majority

Aspro

"All they desired was to be left alone so that they might continue to worship and follow those who took advantage of their simplicity, and robbed them of the fruits of their toil; their old leaders, the fools or scoundrels who fed them with words, who had led them into the desolation where they now seemed to be content to grind out treasure for their masters, and to starve when those masters did not find it profitable to employ them. It was as if a flock of foolish sheep placed themselves under the protection of a pack of ravening wolves."

The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists - Robert Tressell

Biffa Bacon

I don't see what a description of SWP members has to do with FF getting an overall majority.

Biffa Bacon

Trolling aside, isn't it a terrible indictment of the opposition parties that there is even a possibility of FF getting an overall majority given the number of failures and scandals that have hit them?

Aspro

Ha ha SWP members. I like it. Recently their entire college branch in UCD split from the main party. As a socialist I think the SWP have done more damage than Stalin to the ideas. (o.k. maybe slight exaggeration:p

But anyhow, as regards FF, couldn't agree more. I'd put it down to three factors:

1) The Teflon Taoiseach
2) People hate Baldy Noonan - especially due to the Hep C scandal.
3) No perceivable difference of policy between the main parties

Biffa Bacon

The other thing is, why do the opposition seem so toothless? Why was nothing made over Bertie's car speeding as he went canvassing in Wexford, especially given recent events? Noonan used to be someone you could respect for the strength of his views, even if you didn't agree with him. But now his spin-doctors have given him a makeover and seem to want him to concentrate on style over substance. "Vision with purpose"? What's that supposed to mean? People can see phoneys a mile off and they don't respect them.

mike65

You're dead right Biffa, ever since Michael Noonan got the FG leaders gig he's been availible only in low-fat, pastel shades
its a waste of the mans energy and talent. It all goes back to
hep c (you'd think he was the only one involved) Noonan was painly told by his handlers that in the fall-out from that debacle
he would have to be as nice as pie or risk getting voters backs-up. I, at least, prefer my politicans straight-talking while shooting from the hip.

With the election lost for FG I hope he now gets off the leash
and lets rip, God knows there's plenty to go at.

Mike.

dahamsta

[I agree with you, I'm just being bitchy in the following...]

But now his spin-doctors have given him a makeover and seem to want him to concentrate on style over substance.

Worked for Bertie.

People can see phoneys a mile off and they don't respect them.

See above.

adam

shotamoose

People seem to like that Bertie's a bit dodgy. Maybe they think that he's ultimately on their side cos he's a man of the people. Or maybe its just cos he's got more charisma and appeal than Noonan.

I also think the FF campaign has been pretty good this time around. The posters were good - calm and vaguely purposeful where Noonan's looked demented. And they've gone for the New Labour tactic of 'give us five more years to fulfil our destiny', which probably hadn't occurred to most political parties before.

Jorinn

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
Trolling aside, isn't it a terrible indictment of the opposition parties that there is even a possibility of FF getting an overall majority given the number of failures and scandals that have hit them?

Not really, mor an indication of people's indeifference, stupidity and bad memory.

Gael

What's your beef with the SWP Aspro? I'm not a member but I know some who are and I'm just plain curious. What happened with the UCD branch?

cornell babe

i def agree with biffa! i think michael noonan was superb when he was let rip b4 he became party leader. they have toned him down too much! there have been a lot of good things sed in this thread but i have to disagree that the campaign is a lost one for fine gael. we are the people of this country we are the voters we are the people who will decide the fate of our country for the next 5 years at the max. sane people with any shred of intelligence cannot vote for this government again and while you might not think fine gael are the answer there are quite a few parties out there quite possibly with gr8 constituency workers, people with ideals that that they combine with hard work and effort. These people deserve credit and recognition and i strongly believe that after the last 5 years of economic boom we have nothing to show for it when it comes to economic surplus my question is where has the money gone, bertie? and people do you honestly think ff are the reasonable choce for a government for the next 5 years when they have no scruples woith regards to public spending or borrowing they will continue to deal with our country's finances recklessly but this time around the money will not be there and in another 5 years the country will be in ruin we must not allow this
please vote anti-government
please save our country,
please vote for change,
thank you.

Cork

please vote anti-government

Why?

Whats the alternatine - Sinn Fein, Labour, PDs, FG & independents.

This would be stable government.

Bertie & FF have done a decent job. Where was the peace process 5 years ago? There was bigger unemployment.

Bertie would be my choice for next taoiseach although FF will not get a majority.

cornell babe

it is always healthy to have a change in government especially after the full term this government has had.

this government can't exactly be called stable seeing as mary and bertie have never always seen eye to eye. e.g. the 'bertie bowl'.

bertie has not been a good taoiseach as he has put people like hugh o'flaherty up for senior positions. has elected jailbirds like lawlor to high positions and has not looked for appropriate resignations from people like mc daid after his utterly disgusting remark that people who commit suicide are 'selfish bastards'

where was the peace process 5 years ago? it was where it was and where it would have been before we had our general election of '97. it is preposterous to accredit ahern with the success of the peace process. credit has to go to all sides that contributed to peace talks.

you also left other political parties out in your list e.g. the greens the socialists etc.

a coalition government is what we have had for the last 5 years and a coalition government is what the opposition offer so there is no question of a differing stability.

a mix of parties would provide different opinions and a more eclectic mix of views and action.

voting for the outgoing government would say that we are happy with what we have at the moment in our country.

house prices that many people can't afford.

critical lack of funding in many areas such as public transport, health, education at all levels.

rampant corruption in the running of our country at home and in europe.

scandalous remarks from members of government such as mc daid's

lack of basic morality and scruples

a member of the present government being in jail not once, not twice but three times.

another member of the government being convicted of tax fraud.

i could go on and i respect you view but how can you voice support for this government by voting for them

please vote for change!
thank you.

Jorinn

Originally posted by Cork


Why?

Whats the alternatine - Sinn Fein, Labour, PDs, FG & independents.

This would be stable government.

Bertie & FF have done a decent job. Where was the peace process 5 years ago? There was bigger unemployment.

Bertie would be my choice for next taoiseach although FF will not get a majority.

The stupidity of some of your posts really astounds me.

Yes, that is the alternative or a colaition of FF and one of those parties.

Stable government is one that doesn't fall and no matter what party is in power, even with a a majority always stands a chance of falling, just take immediately after the second world war when govs in this country rarely lastedc longer than 3 years.

In some respects yes FF did a good job but they failed miserably in othert areas such as the distribution of wealth. Ireland now has the second worst division of wealth in the developed world, hardly something for Bertie to boast about, we also now have the longest hospital and housing lists just as an example, in reality FF/PDs have basically failed the country, they had enough money to fix the vast majority of the countrtys problems but realley just fked us all over. They just gave more money to the already rich by cutting the top rate of tax and halving Capital Gains Tax.

Yes there was bigger unemployment but it was falling already when FF entered government, the two govs before the outgoin one (FF/Lab and the rainbow) laid the foundations, FF/PDs just managed to squander the fruits of that work.

Your choice for Bertie as Taoiseach is ridiculous, he can't even speak one of our national languages properly never mind both of them. He's like George Bush, other poeple decide most of his policies except for the occasional stupid one he supplies himself like the BertieBowl. If it had to be a FF taoisech then it would be Micheal Matin, despite the fact that he is VERY authoritarian from what I've seen at least he has his own policies (banning smoking all together) even if he is too chicken**** to implement them before the election. Would be better without FF in government in the first place of course.

And no FF will not get a majority but they will be scarily close.

hurler-on-ditch

From my, admitedly limited, contact with politico types, seems that FF as of today are heading for a landslide. Probably will be pulled back a bit and may fall short of OM, but will easily construct a Govt. with PD's if required. No hard feelings obviously between them!

While not traditionally an FF supporter, they will get my vote this time. Main reason - Michael Noonan and the appaling way that the Birgit Cole case was handled - how anyone could reward him with the position of Taioseach is beyond me.

At the time of the case I swore I would not forget come voting day and I believe that thousands of other right thinking people are going to give Noonan a lesson he's not going to get over. I would consider giving my vote to another party, but Noonan says that FF is the only one he won't liaise with and I can't take a chance of Greens or Lab propping him up.

cornell babe

hurler-on-ditch i totally understand your view. the mishandling of the brigid mc cole case was utterly appalling but michael noonan has apologised and more than once or twice.
have you already forgotten mc daid's disgusting and degrading comment describing suicide victims as being 'selfish bastards'??!!!
bertie ahern did not sack mc daid instead he accepted an apology which has not yet matched the apologies of mr. noonan.
michael noonan has definitely learned from his mistakes but do you think bertie has a high level of morality when it comes to health matters (or anything else for that matter??!!) seeing as he sees fit to allow mc daid to stay in his current high position!!!
voting ff is not the way to go and will not necessarily help the situation and you know it.
micheál martin is very favouritist when it comes to cork and that's coming from a corkonian! but yes i would prefer him to bertie in the morning!
please vote for change,
thank you.:)

hurler-on-ditch

Not sure what you mean by Mc Daid not offering an appropriate level of apology...comparing the two actions is way off the mark. Most people do not feel Mc Daid should not resign and he may have opened up a much needed debate on suicide. I have a problem with Noonan's ACTIONS as health minister rather than McDaids words, which were clumsy for sure but not in the same league. Sure Noonan has apologised but he has also acknowledged it as a grave error of judgement - can he be trusted not to make a similar mistake again - an irrelevant question I guess since he won't get the opportunity, if I and practically everyone I know have any thing to do about it.

Should he not have done the honourable thing and resigned then, and perhaps have saved FG's bacon then?? If Alan Dukes or someone else with real compassion is brought back then they can have my vote next time.

Yoda

It is my sincere hope that lots of Fianna Fáil supporters will complacently sit at home on Friday while those who want to fight for change will be out in their droves voting for the opposition.

I think it is astonishing that so much media fluff is caused by these "poll predictions" and half-black pie-charts. How can anyone take such polls seriously? I *hear* a lot more dissatisfaction than those polls would have us believe.

Maybe the country is just split between rural and urban again, as for the divorce and abortion referenda.

hurler-on-ditch

RE polls, I seem to recall that it was the opposition who voiciferously opposed FF proposals to ban them in the run up to the election, as they felt FF wanted to hide their typical slide in polls from discussion ....guess that FG, in particular, wish that they had backed the Bill at the time!!

cornell babe

well comparing noonan to mc daid it is also imperative to keep in mind that mc daid is a medical doctor and so should know better.

and opening up the debate on suicide? why is that necessarily to be admired? you could also reconsider your statement as opening up the wounds of thousands of people in this country and in such an agressive and arrogant way.

polls of course do not show anything near the real result. fine gael have been the underdogs in this country since the 1930's and have always been put down and they're still here, aren't they?

and as a person who has done extensive canvassing and polling all over the country i would agree a lot with the whole urban vs rural debate.

the floating voters are in vast amounts in urban areas and with more choice in candidates and parties in these constituencies it is their votes which will count on friday as they will constitute the balance of power with ff landslide as realistic as fg meltdown; just a load of hype from the press.

please vote for change.
thank you.

hurler-on-ditch

I do concede that the way Mc Daid made the remarks was crude, but having listened to a lot of discussion on the airwaves about the issue there are clearly a variety of perspectives on this. One commentator went do far as to accuse Mc Daid of prompting the suicide option which was very far fetched, as quite a few parents of suicide victims were on the Joe Duffy show to agree with his sentiments if not the use of the B******* term.

Could it not equally be said that (some) political opponents are also guilty of cynically manipulating the issue to score cheap points in an election situation?? This is to me even more objectionable than McDaids terminology.

seamus

They're probably doing those polls down the backarse of nowhere.

FF has 2 backers IMO.

The Bertie-lovers: where Bertie comes in with his common touch, Im-in-the-same-boat-as-you approach. "Ah Mr. Aherne it's awful, I haven't had clean water in 3 years and my sons are terrible tearaways". To which BA replies, "Ah sure, I know what you mean, my water's always a bit too cold, and my daughter's always out partying till all hours."

Then there's the diehards. People who can still remember when Ireland was just the free state, and their spineless families. "Vote FF or I'll disown ya!". "Yes Ma!"

I don't know what would possess anyone to vote FF. Charlie fecked up two budgets, Bertie is desperately trying to waste money on a luxury and nothing has really gotten better since the last election. Lower unemployment? That was inevitable, the boom was on the launchpad when they were voted in. Peace in NI? While it was historical, Bertie just smiled and agreed. He did feck all.

Yet our health, transport, social services and telecommunications sectors are all on the verge of ruin. Yeah nice one Bertie :rolleyes:

[/end vent]

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by seamus

I don't know what would possess anyone to vote FF.

Have you seen the opposition?

Gerry

Cornell babe, the best stick you can hit fianna fáil with is jim mcdaid? So ****ing what if he made one un pc comment. You should be talking about fianna fáils policies in general, and how yours will be better, when you graduate from Young Fine Gael. The government has made plenty of bad decisions, surely you can talk about them. I personally still don't know who to vote for, I'm thinking labour even though I don't particularly like the local candidate. I think an FF majority is actually preferable to a FF-PD coalition, because they can't work together effectively, hardly surprising considering the PD's heritage. And even if I might not agree with some of fianna fáils policies, ( bertie bowl etc), I think it would be preferable to go ahead with it, rather than have the PD's fire loads of cash into the fire/ at consultants.