Do you think this is on??

Dr. Loon

Vegan couple accused of starving baby daughter

I personally think these people are arséholes.... what do you reckon?

Saruman

These people are FREAKS!

Gaz

Disgraceful !

Vegan is a lifestyle choice ..... they are forcing there choice on that poor baby. FFS a baby needs milk , why on earth do women have breasts if milk isnt what nature intended !

Lock em up and force feed em a buffalo ! Thats what i say !

koneko

That is ridiculous. Whatever choice these people made for their lifestyle, they can't force it on a baby. Babies NEED milk, for chist sake. Feed it nuts? Oh yeah that's a great idea :rolleyes:

Saruman

Well said Darth!

I wonder if there is Vegan food in prison?

Kalina

Those people have destroyed their baby's chances of a normal healthy childhood and maybe even adulthood if she can't recover from all the medical problems she has a result of their ridiculous diet. They should both be sentenced the seven years in prison for endangering a human life, and maybe some mandatory psychiatric care for not having the common sense to feed their child infant formula or breast milk..

Gaz

I dont know but im sure the guy will get his fair share of man meat !! haha

OLDYELLAR

i think they should be reported to the authorities . it will damage the kid in yhe long run if their not careful , they wonyt hav a kid no more .

Shinji

It raises again a tricky question that's come up repeatedly over recent months and years; where does the right of a parent to decide on his/her childs upbringing end, and the basic right of the child to a normal life begin?

We're all pretty much in agreement that it's wrong for these people to damage their child so greviously with this kind of unnatural diet, WHATEVER their beliefs. Most people feel the same about the couple last month who deliberately engineered their child to be deaf.

But what about people who refuse to allow their children to have essential operations because their religion doesn't allow organ transplants etc? Even more contentious, what about people who totally stunt their childrens abillity to participate in normal society by giving them an entirely non-standard education (such as the Orthodox Jews in London, who teach their kids from the Torah and refuse to allow them to be taught sciences or to use modern technology)?

It's not considered politically correct to suggest that parents actually might NOT have the right to do whatever they want with their kids, but the question does have to be asked; where do you stop thinking about what the parent wants, and start thinking about what the child NEEDS to be a happy, productive and healthy member of modern society? Whose rights are more important?

The Corinthian

I've a client who is vegan, as is his wife. He's a nice chap and a good client to work with (pays on time), although the power lunches are a little dissapointing :rolleyes:

His kids are vegetarian, but only because they just don't happen to cook meat in the house. As for breast feeding, it's not really something I'd ask him, but knowing his attitudes (he would be dissapointed if his kids went carnivore, but wouldn't stop them), I doubt if he or his wife would do anything so stupid.

The case highlighted above is probably a better example of indivuals who shouldn't be allowed to breed in the first place.

swiss

It's actually sickening to read about the abuse those people inflicted on their own child. Parents, IMO should be allowed to make many lifestyle choices for their children if they feel that it is in the childs best interests. This includes the religion of the child. It does not include denying their children the basic nutritional requirements that they need in order to live.

I can't see any justification for what the parents have done. As Darth Homer said, women have breasts for a reason, and no it's not just so that men can play with them.

People like that should not be allowed to have children unless they demonstrate that they are capable of taking proper care of the child.

Saruman

Hmmm should we have a Baby licence? You need to pass a test before you can have one? hmmm....

Anyone know what the Human rights charter has to say on the matter?

seamus

I'm vegetarian. My gf is vegetarian. Strange that we'd have discussed it, but we'd have no problem feeding kids meat. Vegetarianism is a belief, a life choice. While it is possible to properly nourish children without meat, it far easier, cheaper and less risky to use meat rather than 4 or 5 substances that will individually provide protein, fat, iron, calcium.....the list goes on and on. The situation is even worse for vegans.

Children needs tonnes of everything to grow up healthy. It's OK for adults, we only need protein, calcium, etc to maintain our current state of health, but children need far more of these nutrients than we do, in order to grow.

There is still nowhere near enough products available to adequately substitute meat out of a chid's diet. Maybe in the future, but not yet. If a child suddenly decides they don't want to eat meat, fine (my gf decided when she was 7 :eek: ), but the child wouldn't think like this at least for the crucial first 4 years, when it can be fed the proper foods.

Life choices and lifestyles are all well and good, but when they sacrifice the well-being of the child, they're just plain wrong. There's a world of difference between not teaching your child about science, and malnourishing it.

tribble

Being a veggie for what i consider solid reasons i do acknowledge the right of the parents to feed the child a diet that they agree with, but these people are obviously lacking the where-with-all to look after a child, vegan diet or no. A vegan diet is not necessarily a bad thing even for an infant...

Experts said it is possible to feed an infant a vegan diet and provide the proper nutrients as long as it includes breast milk or soya-based formula.

... but the parents involved here are clearly criminally negligent.

BTW - what is the problem with breast milk? I'ts not like it harms anyone.

mi2p

b :mad:

The Corinthian

Originally posted by tribble
BTW - what is the problem with breast milk? I'ts not like it harms anyone.

It might if it lasts during teething...

bonkey

Originally posted by seamus
There is still nowhere near enough products available to adequately substitute meat out of a chid's diet.

I would doubt the correctness of this.

This thread reminded me of a veggie one that was on here some time ago, where Oc, our "resident" doc, pointed out that a lot of the widely-held belief's of the irreplacability of meat is completely misplaced.

Furthermore, he also pointed out that there are societies which are dairy intolerant and who live very healthy lifestyles.

Life choices and lifestyles are all well and good, but when they sacrifice the well-being of the child, they're just plain wrong.

Absolutely. However, I wonder whether or not this story is really that noteworthy. I would lay money that far more children from an omnivorous dietary background get discovered in cases like this than vegans, and yet when it happens with vegans it becomes a big deal. Why? Because we can point at their diet and say that this is what caused it.

The problem is not that these people were vegans. The problem was not that these people fed their child vegan food. The problem was that they neglected their child woefully. It is possible to bring a child up with a vegan diet, but these people hadnt got a clue how to do it.

At the end of the day, I am glad to see people like this prosecuted, but I think that blaming it on their being vegan is slightly wide of the mark.

jc

Cake Fiend

Vegetarianism and especially veganism are just not natural imo.

Originally sig'd by The Corinthian
If God hadn't wanted us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of food.

Exactly.

Victor

I once avoided meat almost completely for a period of about 3 years, for a mix of dietary and animal welfare grounds.

Originally posted by bonkey
Absolutely. However, I wonder whether or not this story is really that noteworthy. I would lay money that far more children from an omnivorous dietary background get discovered in cases like this than vegans, and yet when it happens with vegans it becomes a big deal. Why? Because we can point at their diet and say that this is what caused it.

The point is veganism was the means of abuse (not neglect) of this child. While some omnivorous families do abuse / neglect their children, that abuse is usually defined in some way - physical, sexual, emotional. This case, however, was dietary.

The object of being a vegan is to avoid consuming meat and products which are at the periphery of the meat industry - dairy products, eggs, leather clothing and the like. What this couple failed to realise was that breast feeding is not against these principals.

McGinty

I agree that it is neglect that caused this abuse, however a vegan diet is very limited for an adult let alone a child, I was a vegitarian and thought about raising my child as the same but realised it was selfish as children need extra protien, when raising children, one has to put their own agenda aside and decide what is best for their child, my child eats meat, I do now also. I cannot understand people like that as their actions are beyond my comprehension. In regard to licences to have a children, I totally agree however,it would be extremely hard to control.