Cannabis

Ajnag

Hello all, first time on these boards and im just putting out a feeler on how you see canabis and feel about its legalisation,
there are people in ireland who feel strongly that its illeaglisation is an attack on the truth, as a look at the marijuana section at www.newscientist.com would suggest, id like your opionions and views and also there is a j-day comming up so where would be an appropiate place on the boards to tell people.

Shinji

Shall I hand out the flak jackets, then?

Victor

What I wonder about is why people need to 'alter their state'. Would I be right in saying most cannabis campaigners are recreational, not medicinal users?

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Victor
What I wonder about is why people need to 'alter their state'. Would I be right in saying most cannabis campaigners are recreational, not medicinal users?

damn straight victor


hehehehehehehehehe

Ajnag

the campaigners in britian are mostly medicinal, as to weather most are recreational or not dunno.as for altering our state, well watching the telly can alter your state, revlon ads advocate the because your worth it rational so you can feel better about your self, active sports people get a nice boost of endorphines (related to morphine) after excerise, humans alter their state all the time, is it really such a moral outrage when they do this using a natural plant while harming no one else?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Ajnag

www.norml.org for the truth on the 10ciggie thing, but smoking is bad for you any way, what the oppoents always fail to mention is that it can be eaten, drank or vapourised which produces far less carcenogens then smoking.there are always alternatives, what the politians fail to mention when quoting the above is that illegality means that no qualty controls or regulation of anykind is possible which means that due to denial of its low impact on health means that hash brought in by criminals like gilligan is of low quality and contains other products that acctualy may cause more harm.

as for the presence of apathy among heavy users, no scientific study has outright proven this, how ever, no matter what it is in this life be it driving, sex or paracetamol, irrisponsibility will lead to tragic consequences.

Shinji

as for the presence of apathy among heavy users, no scientific study has outright proven this

Impossible to prove. "Motivation" isn't something you can measure empirically. However, I think it's fair to say that heavy cannabis users do suffer the effects of demotivation. That's why it's such a bad idea for students to do it, they do little enough work and talk enough crap already

the campaigners in britian are mostly medicinal

Yes. They use cannabis as a medical answer to the symptoms of "living in Brixton", a debilitating disease which causes the sufferer to... er... go on the dole and smoke weed, actually


Rob (who uses it "medicinally", honest)

Stephen

Originally posted by Shinji

That's why it's such a bad idea for students to do it, they do little enough work and talk enough crap already

We're not all arts students you know!

bonkey

Originally posted by Shinji
However, I think it's fair to say that heavy cannabis users do suffer the effects of demotivation.

Absolutely. In the same way that "heavy use" of the mind-altering recreational substance known as alcohol can :

a) kill you
b) cause liver failure
c) give you alcohol poisoning
d) cause depression
e) cause hangovers

and so on, and so forth, depending on what level of abuse you term "heavy use".

So - unless you can show why its worse than alcohol, I'm not sure the side-effects are any grounds for the continued illegal status (unless you also support prohibition).

Personally, as I think I've posted before, the problem with legalising cannabis, marijuana, or just plain ol' THC, is that it would be virtually impossible to police.

THC remains in you system for a very long time. How can you tell that someone is over the limit because they have just had a large J, or because they had one a week or two ago.

Also, how would you deal with secondary-smoker intoxication? Secondhand nicotine is quite mild in its effects (although it can be medically harmful in the long term) - second hand cannabis smoke is not so benign in short-term effects - you can get high from second-hand smoking.

The medical issue is a handy one for governments to fall back on. Just like with tobacco, we have the governments saying "its bad", and the proponents of the substance saying "no it isnt", with each side trotting out their experts. In this case, I believe the more credible research is on the "no it isnt" side, but have a look at how long it took the pro-tobacco to admit to the dangers? Hell, you can probably still find websites from those insisting that tobacco hasnt been medically shown to be dangerous.

If and when governments finally lose the "its for your own health" argument, they still have a few decades of other excuses such as "imossible to police", "stairway to harder drugs", and "administrative nightmare" to go through. I'm not saying that all are valid, but every one will have to be swept away before legalisation can occur.

Should cannabis be ligalised? For medical use - unquestionably.

For recreational use - possibly, but only if properly policed. Anywhere I know that drugs are semi-openly sold (Amsterdam, here in Switzerland) the availability of other drugs is massive. The semi-blind-eye approach does not work.

jc

Ser

ah the beauty of living in london, i can smoke skunk on the streets and buy it in shops. they have decriminalized (?) it in my area

Aspro

Personally, as I think I've posted before, the problem with legalising cannabis, marijuana, or just plain ol' THC, is that it would be virtually impossible to police.

We could clone Dana and send one round to everyone's gaf.:D

Shinji

Absolutely. In the same way that "heavy use" of the mind-altering recreational substance known as alcohol can <snip>

Oh quite. Cannabis is far, far less damaging than rather a lot of off-the-shelf drugs, never mind a major killer like alcohol.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of legalisation and regulation, I'm just annoyed by people who lie about their intentions. It's a recreational drug with limited medical application (I find it's good for back pain and insomnia), and it DOES have mental side-effects. There's no need to lie about it. You don't see people claiming that alcohol is only for medical use and doesn't make you drunk.

bonkey

Originally posted by Shinji
Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of legalisation and regulation, I'm just annoyed by people who lie about their intentions. It's a recreational drug with limited medical application (I find it's good for back pain and insomnia), and it DOES have mental side-effects.

Ah - ok. I did misunderstand you slightly.

I think we're mostly in agreement from that stance

jc

beardedchicken

Originally posted by Stephen


We're not all arts students you know!

Ahem!!!! and WHAT precisely, is *wrong* with being an arts student?????????????????

Victor

Originally posted by beardedchicken
Ahem!!!! and WHAT precisely, is *wrong* with being an arts student?????????????????

Oh dear, he has forgotten

beardedchicken

Originally posted by Victor


Oh dear, he has forgotten

wha?

Dr. Loon

I reckon providing you mind your own business and don't hurt any other human that you should be able to smoke, vaporise, eat or do whatever the hell you want with a plant that grows naturally on our planet! Simple really.

Shinji

Ahem!!!! and WHAT precisely, is *wrong* with being an arts student?????????????????

I tell you what; why don't you run off and get your question mark key fixed, and then you can come back and tell us what's RIGHT with being an arts student?

beardedchicken

Originally posted by Shinji


I tell you what; why don't you run off and get your question mark key fixed, and then you can come back and tell us what's RIGHT with being an arts student?

Miiaaaaaow! saucer of milk for table two!!!!

Ajnag

as bonkey said the polititians will keep lookin for excuses - that is unless we make things a little uncomfortable by using science and avilable evidense to make fools out of them.yes there are risks, but compared to alchcol and the violence caused in this country by its irrisponsible use cannabis is a noble peace prize winner:D

for those intrested in irish legalisation check out www.cannabisireland.com the ammo is there for the issue, now its time to start throwing it, check out the j-day link

Biffa Bacon

Ajnag = ganja backwards. Do I win a prize?

Meh

Anyone watching the BBC2 programme last night where this bloke set up an Amsterdam-style cannabis cafe in England?
They also had another guy -- a legitimate businessman, didn't look dodgy at all -- who was doing market research into "cannabis lounges" in preparation for when it's legalized in the UK...

ykt0di9url7bc3

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt

but that thing about a Joint being like 10 cigs? That I found scary. Really scary.

re-freezeable ice-cream?

Ajnag

belive it or not biffa not to many catch that one, but sorry no prizes, im not that rich or generous.

Gordon

Just as well you aren't called Anaujiram, that'd be difficult to type out ad-hoc! And so would Torracllewrebmac

scenic

Well there won't be anybody smokin weed in Co. Meath this weekend !!!!!! - except the boys in blue of course

Ajnag

lol the boys blue should be in a good mood, its not their fault they pasively inhale when burning what they confiscated:D.

dose any one remember the prime time epsode where they actually let cannabis and e into the country, if you didnt, you missed whats been done for publicity and not whats in your intrest as would be claimed.

On the money program on wednesday on bbc2 they followed a guy setting up one of the cafes in britian, but heres an intresting little statistic, sales of hydroponics in britian have tripled since plans to de-classify were anounced, wonder what that means for the market, and im just wondering how irish politians are going to respond-are they going to make rte show reefer madness?:)

king of fifa

some of that sticky icky wicky.
one time on the big breakfast show (long before the british media jumped on the pro legal wagon)johnny was doing his normal ranting at denise (phoar),the subject was stoners and drinkers.he asked denise(phoar) which she would prefer to meet on a dark night down the proverbial alleyway.denise(phoar) said stoners, any day of the week.boys tis time to get stoned down alleyways just like u did when u were young.the point is would anyone out there disagree with that statement?i for one always prefer to see a smoker;it means i might get a free smoke!

king of fifa

in the immortal words of pantera "SMOKE WEED!!!!!!!!!!"

immort4l

Maybe it's the circles I move in,but nearly everyone I know smokes dope(art students included ...).If they legalise it over here,it'll just mean we can all get better quality stuff .

Has anyone ever wondered why it's so damn hard to get skunk here?Apparently in engerland,it's rampant!!Such a short smuggling excursion as well,the market is definitely here...

In my experience,most online gamers I have met smoke.Personally , I couldn't play quake without smokin..Imagine getting beaten by clan BiO 435 - 85 and not having a joint!!I would have just given up altogether or started attacking my pc with a hammer.

Ser

yeh dunno what is going on in ireland with your cannibis, its a joke realy, i feel sory for you:/

that stuff you called hash (dark solid ****) is about £40 a oz here, a 8th is ment to be 3.5 grams, a oz 28 grams etc, so is crazy when you get 8ths there which are like 2.5 or 3 grams, and they want £20 for it? crazzy, also i rem ppl sayin they had pollum there, and everytime i saw somone with it, it wasnt even pollum,you get that ****e 'slate' which is a light color, nearly yellow, that is cheap crap,ppl throw it away here, its not pollum, pollum is a dark color and smells different and realy fluffy.

yeh skunk is rampant over here, but its the same dried **** you get in amsterdamn, is hard to find good (GOOD) skunk here, unless you know som1 who is growin it correctly.

enjoy the **** overpriced cannibis:>

Canaboid

I was amazed to hear recently that in the UK the ratio of imported to domestic is near anough 50/50. This means a huge change has taken place in the last few years. I'd hazard a guess in Ireland its 90/10 imported/domestic and good domestic is impossible to find.
The commercial grade hash that is a staple in this country is of hopless quality although I would say prices have dropped over the last few years.
With increased domestic production of high quality grass in the UK it's only a matter of time before it starts making it's way accross the Irish sea in reasonable quantities. The reason it hasn't already is the higher markup on bulk importation of low grade hash from Amsterdam means ++profit for the criminal filth bringing it in.

tHE vAGGABOND

nearly everyone I know smokes dope

I know loads of people who smoke, while I choose not to any more myself..

Now Im no scientist but the people I know who have been smoking for any length of time seem to get a bit slow in the head after a good while of smoking on a regular basis, it really leaves a lasting effect on them. Its not harmless.

Now I dont care if drink is worse, it is - I agree, but thats no excuse to leagalise the other!

I would say u will be waiting a while to get any kind of legislation in Ireland tho like what they have done in the UK

Ajnag

Originally posted by tHE vAGGABOND
Now Im no scientist but the people I know who have been smoking for any length of time seem to get a bit slow in the head after a good while of smoking on a regular basis, it really leaves a lasting effect on them. Its not harmless.

Most reports conclude that these affects clear within a month after abstinence.

Originally posted by tHE vAGGABOND

Now I dont care if drink is worse, it is - I agree, but thats no excuse to leagalise the other!.

so ill take it your in full agreement with the prohibition of alcohol.However those who would disagree with prohibition of alcohol would point out what happened in 1930s chicago and the subsequent failure of prohibition, with which surprisingly close parrallels can drawn to cannabis prohibition.Also is it morally right to impose criminal records which prevent travel to other countrys on those that choose an alternative to alcohol that has far safer statistics.check cannabis deaths vs alcohol deaths.

Originally posted by tHE vAGGABOND

I would say u will be waiting a while to get any kind of legislation in Ireland tho like what they have done in the UK

Unfortunatly your right, with not one politian under 40 in the cabinate, and the levels of truth at an all time low, and the fact that within a so called democracy, a taboo will kill a political debate faster then then the dodo died out.but there are people out there unwilling to live with the lies any more and determined to show the public not merly opinion but facts accredited by the worlds best scientific and medical journals.

scenic

How much are people paying for their gear?

Maybe its worth my while taking a trip to DAM to bring a few crates back !!:)

Ajnag

25€ for 3.5g of the worst in the e.u

neuro-praxis

I live with a guy who has been smoking weed every day for 20 years. If his brain wasn't so swiss-cheesed at this point he'd probably be a millionaire. (He's a mathematical and artistic genius who watches TV, drinks beer and smokes hash non-stop. He's way too relaxed to bother with anything else.)

tribble

I live with a guy who has been smoking weed every day for 20 years. If his brain wasn't so swiss-cheesed at this point he'd probably be a millionaire. (He's a mathematical and artistic genius who watches TV, drinks beer and smokes hash non-stop. He's way too relaxed to bother with anything else.)

Don't suppose it ever crossed your mind that many people don't want to be millionaires. Most that do won't make it anyway. You have to take a step back and ask yourself what exactly you want from life, is material wealth really that important?

mi2p

b

Steve_Astn

how easy is it to get cannabis in dublin? where would you buy it?

Ajnag

Bad idea to try and find out where and how to get your smoke on the internet.Also on boards it tends to make you come across badly.But its as common as muck to quote someone and you shouldnt have too much trouble meeting someone who can help, Dont :Repeat: Dont buy on the street, youll most likely get ripped off or worse!.

However ahem:cough: :cough: you could avoid giving your cash to scumbags by umm how should i say this, umm creating your own.search overgrow on google:)

---

Disclamer; The above comments are meant only in an educational manner and are not intended to incite in any form or manner criminal activity.

---

neuro-praxis

Originally posted by tribble


Don't suppose it ever crossed your mind that many people don't want to be millionaires. Most that do won't make it anyway. You have to take a step back and ask yourself what exactly you want from life, is material wealth really that important?

mi2p

b

Ha! I'm not interested in materialism (I'm going into missionary work which you have to PAY to do, never mind get a salary for...). Of course he wants to have money - he complains about his lack of it constantly. He's got a 7 year old daughter that needs things! His car is 15 years old! He only has one pair of jeans!

Ajnag

Neuro im sorry to hear of your friends bad state, but you claim his brain is swiss chessed from weed,
Studies such as this one from harvard http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/memory.jsp
show that this is over exageration and fear mongering.


I suggest his real problem is a lifestyle one, If he wants to provide for his daughter then it is up to him to change his lifestyle to a healthier one.Ive already made the point of responsible use of cannabis, and if it is a problem for him, just as with alcoholics it is soley up to him recignise and do something to change for the better.
Personal responibility is the best way to avoid problems in life.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

connexion

Due to prohibition and the control of the cannabis trade by criminal gangs there is no quality control in place.

In my opinion this represents the biggest threat to the health and well-being of users and is a direct result of prohibition.


stats from the soapbar hash analysis as follows:

-cannabinoids : 6.6%
- 3.25% THCd9
- 3.35% CBD

- vegetative matter 22.9%

- haemoglobin (blood) : 9.5%

- most probably cement dust/lime : 15.55%

- beeswax : 8.8%

- rubber-based synthetics : 12.25%

- plastic-based synthetics : 9.5%

- uncertain extras ~9.5%


i got this info from an Analytical Science postgrad at University College Dublin. it was never a 'sanctioned' experiment so to speak, but i trust the lady in question's judgement and professonalism. sorry i've nothing more conclusive for you, but it still serves to get the point about soapbar hash across...


more at

http://www.schmoo.co.uk/soapcak.htm

or search on google for soapbar hash

Grow your own

http://www.overgrow.com


Peace.

Bob the Unlucky Octopus

Originally posted by neuro-praxis
I live with a guy who has been smoking weed every day for 20 years. If his brain wasn't so swiss-cheesed at this point he'd probably be a millionaire. (He's a mathematical and artistic genius who watches TV, drinks beer and smokes hash non-stop. He's way too relaxed to bother with anything else.)

I would humbly submit that cannabis isn't the cause of his state of mind, merely an augmentation of it. There are very few drugs that can drastically alter the way people think- and all of those are strictly regulated on the psychiatric drug register. Cause and effect is not always obvious to the impassive observer- example- I could make the statement that all tea drinkers will die (clearly true in itself). To then draw the conclusion that tea-drinking eventually causes death and when queried why: "I have seen people who drink tea die...it's just common sense!".

In all seriousness, what cannabis does is augment emotional sensations that originate in the superior Westphalian complex in the forebrain. In layman's terms, it simply means that the drug relaxes you and at the same time acts as a perceived 'solution' to one's problems if used to excess. Take the classic case of alcoholism- people attempt to use it as a crutch to 'solve' their problems when in fact alcohol helps not at all. While alcoholism is actually a hell of a lot more detrimental, that doesn't mean people shouldn't be careful about not using the drug to excess.

Now I use cannabis, and I don't feel my ambitions/desires have changed from what they were when I first started studying. Simply because I choose not to use it to excess.

Neuro, if you want to help your friend, I suggest he seeks professional psychological help. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and it helps one to confront mental difficulties we often aren't willing to admit to ourselves. There is pressure associated with achievement, some handle it better than others- this has to do with one's genetic makeup, upbringing etc- though it's easy to place the blame on a habit that people use to cope- stopping the smoking of cannabis would not help your friend in the long run. That would merely suppress his superconscious, as opposed to confronting it. Feel free to PM me neuro if you have any questions.

Occy