Utv

John Q

Why can't ITV in England see common sence and let UTV broadcast into the Republic by the sky system. To say that TV3 is a region of ITV is silly.

jimbob

It is stupid but what can we do. They need us more than we need them so i'd say utv will be joining Roi within a year to be certain. Alot of ROI viewers have changed to sky digital. this means surely UTV are losing alot of advertising revenue from the southern companys. If it doesn't join sky in ROI it could go bust.

Elmo

I do not think UTV will go bust just because it not broadcast in the republic. After all it is the most successful ITV franchise in the UK and it owns alot more then just UTV.

Even if ITV consider TV3 its franchise in Ireland (which it is by the way) Nothern Irish viewers will always watch UTV for their coverage of News etc.

UTV and TV3 might become one as Canwest holds major shares in both companies. Roll on ITV Ireland.

carrolls

It was the most successful ITV franchise in the UK precisely because it had virtual all Ireland coverage.
If it had to depend solely on the 1.6 million potential viewers in the North, it would go bust tomorrow. They have been depending on Green Punt's for 30 years.
As far as placement on Sky-Ireland is concerned,
Sky will have 1.2 million potential viewers by the end of the year in the Republic. (300,000 X 4).
The majority of these will have come from ex cable and multi-channel punters who had UTV before the change.
In anybodys language, this 1.2 million calculation is a make or break figure for UTV, a company that depends solely on advertising.

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by Elmo
Roll on ITV Ireland.

i really hope that doesn't happen

Elmo

I wouldn't like to see this either but lets face it if Granada where to decide that TV3 should become the ITV Ireland franchise they could do it. TV3 have to make something like 25% of Irish programming under EU law, it may be less i am not entirely sure.

UTV possible provide that to the North yet this is not a requirement so if you get rid of ITV news (ITN) and GMTV, start to show Tonight and other shows like this, well what have we got but ITV Ireland, Since TV3 aready show Coronation Street, Emmerdale, Heartbeat and Champions League.

Sunday Night is just ITV Ireland.

Note that TV3 show Corronation Street at the same time as UTV even when F1 racing is on, RTE 1 showed Coronation Street at 7.30 each night weather UTV were showing it at a later time. TV3 do not have the right to F1 racing in the Republic RTE do they show it on N2. and it is only a matter of time until TV3 get the rights to F1.

West Briton

Has ITV *actually* said that TV3 is ITV in the RoI? If so, can someone post the quote or give a link?

medja

ITV has never said that TV3 is ITV in ROI. While TV3 do show a lot of ITV programmes it is because they have bought the rights in this country. TV3 is run as an independent tv station to make a profit. If cheap BBC programmes come up they will buy them as well.

As for saying Sunday night is ITV ireland, what about saturday night???

TV3 is ITV in Ireland? Wishful thinking I'm sorry to say.

Elmo

Granada have made a deal with TV3 with the Rights to show their programmes in return for 45% of TV3. I would not call this Buying the rights. RTE where in conversations with Granda about a similar deal but RTE could not as the are a Stauatory Semi-State Company.

Granada owns 7 of the franchise of ITV, part of GMTV, part of ITN as well as Man U and Liverpool.

medja

Elmo sorry, but Granada's Deal was that if they were let buy 45 percent of TV3 they would sell the rights to TV3 at low low prices. Yes Granada does own almost half of ITV regions and 45 percent of TV3, But Can-west also owns 45% of TV3, yet we do not hear anything on these boards about IrelandsTV3 becoming part of TV3 New Zealand or part of their north american Networks.

Yes TV3 does show a lot of ITV (granada Programmes) but there are a lot more they they do not show,

I do not see any ITV station showing the weakest link. Again it comes down to money.

Elmo

Ok fair enough

but

WWTBAM? on UTV went out on a sunday night at 8.00 and was followed by Heartbeat.

TV3 showed The Geena Davis show on sunday nights at 8.00 and was followed by Heartbeat.

Heartbeat now runs at 8.00 on UTV and TV3.

TV3 had just changed their news times from their hour long News at 6 to two half an hour slots at 5.30 and 7.00.

When Emmerdale appeared on TV3 it was stated in the TV guide (The Irish Times Mag) that it would go out at 6.30. Yet TV3 moved it forward to 7.00 in line with UTV, and pushed their news back to 6.30.

Is TV3 saving money with their Scheduling managers.

Or could it be that in the future we will see ITV Ireland???

That is all I am saying.

Another example is f1 (other post) and Coronation Street Times (other Post).

They must have begged Granada for Beggars and Choosers.

medja

elmo, you said in a earlier post

"I do not think UTV will go bust just because it not broadcast in the republic. After all it is the most successful ITV franchise in the UK and it owns alot more then just UTV. "

Part of the reason it is so successful is southern Irish ad money. They pay money (probably more than TV3) for ITV network programmes.

they probably have contract rights to ensure that programmes are not shown at a earlier time anywhere else. (TV3, STV, Border, Etc.)

good business practice would say that you should be able to at least show your programmes first in your region. If TV3 showed ITV programmes first, more people in NI would try to pick it up. We can already see this on Tuesday nights with the football.

UTV does need to get on SKY in the south pretty sharpish. Around here (galway) and in Cork I have heard several people are now getting sky because their TG4/tv3 signal off an aerial is poor.

carrolls

UTV's biggest source of income used to come in Green Punts.
Now its EURO. And this is by a big margin.
They are the Republics Second most popular channel.

Originally posted by medja
Elmo sorry, but Granada's Deal was that if they were let buy 45 percent of TV3 they would sell the rights to TV3 at low low prices. Yes Granada does own almost half of ITV regions and 45 percent of TV3, But Can-west also owns 45% of TV3, yet we do not hear anything on these boards about IrelandsTV3 becoming part of TV3 New Zealand or part of their north american Networks.

Yes TV3 does show a lot of ITV (granada Programmes) but there are a lot more they they do not show,

I do not see any ITV station showing the weakest link. Again it comes down to money.

Can't speak for New Zealand-but By golly TV3 does show a lot of U.S programming-while thats not Canada-It is the Canwest influence.

I agree though, that the notion that TV3 is ITV in Ireland is not true.
Granada might like it to be the case,but they don't pull all the punches yet.
RTÉ have the awfull crossroads and the Bill amongst others.
When RTÉ had Emmerdale and corronation street, we weren't saying it was ITV in ROI-so I don't think now they are on TV3 that it is ITV!
Take tonights schedule for instance-the only generic ITV programme on there, apart from Emmerdale, is Cold feet and thats a repeat!
Family affairs is a Ch 5 programme.
Sex and the city + Will and Grace are shown on Ch4 and not ITV at all and more the Canwest influence.
mm

Charles Slane

This make for interesting reading -

From http://www.medialive.ie/

Channel Share Of Viewing

Adults 2001

R.O.I. Multi - Channel % Share

No. Channel, 18.00 - 23.29, All Time
1 RTE 1, 28.2, 23.6 (1)
2 UTV, 14.7, 12.2 (3)
3 TV 3, 10.5, 10.4 (5)
4 BBC 1, 10.1, 11.3 (4)
5 All Other TV, 9.9, 13.1 (2)
6 Network 2, 9.1, 9.6 (6)
7 CH 4, 6.0, 6.8 (7)
8 BBC 2, 4.7, 5.5 (8)
9 SKY 1, 3.6, 3.7 (9)
10 TG4, 1.8, 1.9 (10)
11 SKY News, 1.3, 1.9 (10=)

So Sky one is at 3.6% for 2001-it's not as popular as some people think.
I'm glad to see RTÉ one at the top of the pile:)
UTV will lose their position fast if they don't get a move on...
I still expect they will though when RTÉ goes on the nI epg.
MM

Charles Slane

Originally posted by madman
So Sky one is at 3.6% for 2001-it's not as popular as some people think.

I think that when they talk about how popular Sky One is, they're referring to homes that are cabled or have Sky Digital. I'd love to see specific figures for those homes.

Also the figures are for "adults", whereas Sky One would have high viewing of shows like The Simpsons, Buffy etc in a lower age bracket.

Markets are so subdivided these days-you can get statistics to say almost anything.
"15-34 year olds" being the latest absurd grouping I've heard of...
I mean what would a 15 yr old and a 30 yr old have in common??
mm

_Kaiser_

I think Homer said it best: -

"Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14 percent of all people know that."

but yea...it'd be interesting to see what the figures in cabled/Sky homes came up with in say 6 months time (once we've all gotten used to RTE/TV3 being there now)

byte

It's nice to see fledgling TV3 pushing its way up to third. It wouldn't have been anywhere near 3rd place over a year ago.

Charles Slane

Since you mention it, by way of comparison -

Channel Share Of Viewing

Adults 2000

R.O.I. Multi - Channel % Share

No.Channel, 18.00 - 23.29, All Time
1 RTE 1, 30.5, 25.4 (1)
2 UTV, 14.8, 12.7 (2)
3 Network 2, 10.4, 10.6 (5)
4 BBC 1, 10.2, 11.3 (4)
5 All Other, TV 9.5, 11.9 (3)
6 TV 3, 7.1, 8.0 (6)
7 CH 4, 6.0, 7.0 (7)
8 BBC 2, 4.8, 5.5 (8)
9 SKY 1, 3.9, 4.1 (9)
10 TG4, 1.6, 1.5 (11)
11 SKY News, 1.2, 2.0 (10)


Adults 2001

R.O.I. Multi - Channel % Share

No. Channel, 18.00 - 23.29, All Time
1 RTE 1, 28.2, 23.6 (1)
2 UTV, 14.7, 12.2 (3)
3 TV 3, 10.5, 10.4 (5)
4 BBC 1, 10.1, 11.3 (4)
5 All Other TV, 9.9, 13.1 (2)
6 Network 2, 9.1, 9.6 (6)
7 CH 4, 6.0, 6.8 (7)
8 BBC 2, 4.7, 5.5 (8)
9 SKY 1, 3.6, 3.7 (9)
10 TG4, 1.8, 1.9 (10)
11 SKY News, 1.3, 1.9 (10=)

robert muldoon

Are there conditions attached to the agreement that TV3 have with Granada/Carlton such as UTV rebroadcasting programmes that are controlled by them(Gran/Carl). I wonder is this the BIG problem? If their is something like this in the clause,then UTV have a major problem in getting into ROI on satellite, so then I ask myself how does it work with analogue- There are very seperate laws for satellite- somebody might throw some more light on the subject. BSkyB, I am sure are looking at the whole issue, as it must be their main stumbling block in completing their platform in the South - Are Sky going to buy parts of ITV Digi?. Can they put leverage on Gran/Carl? - The whole thing is becomming like an Agatha Christie mystery. I think there is plenty of milage left in this yet!. As BSky B now have their own man in ROI ( Mark Deering), they will be well clued into whats needed here

carrolls

It is not a question of contracts or clauses.
In analogue broadcasting, you cannot target different channels to different regions, or block programs from a particular channels because of programme rights. (Unless it is a blanket block as they do in NTL up the north).
This has all changed now with digital. Anything from a group of countries to a single subscriber or a particular program or any combination of the above can now be blocked in digital.
In the case of UTV, It has been available on analogue in the South for years simply because analog terrestial cannot be targetted to specific addresses and cannot be blocked on a regional basis.

Charles Slane

Originally posted by carrolls
In the case of UTV, It has been available on analogue in the South for years simply because analog terrestial cannot be targetted to specific addresses and cannot be blocked on a regional basis.

That's not strictly true. I don't agree with your argument that it's only since the arrival of "digital" that services can be allowed or blocked.

UTV has been available on analogue cable for years in the south. If UTV didn't want it to be available they could easily have told NTL/Cablelink/Chorus/etc to remove it from their service. (But they didn't.)

Sky also had an analogue satellite service before Sky Digital, and it was limited to Ireland and Britain through encryption/subscriptions.

I'm sure a number of people on the continent (well within the footprint) accessed the service (through subscriptions from the UK), but generally the encryption/subscription method of limiting their service geographically worked very well.

So it's not just since the arrival of digital that services can be blocked. It's just been made easier, that's all.

However it is mostly about contracts and clauses. If it weren't for contracts, clauses, programme rights etc, there wouldn't be such a big need for limiting access to many channels.

Just to add to this.
UTV was available for years in many parts of ROI on cable,and for many of those years they were not paid at all.
It was a case of nudge , nudge, we'll say nothing.....
But then they forced the issue of payment , probably at the behest of the ITV network centre.
If even back then Cablelink refused to pay-At that stage they would have been forced stop carriage.

Since the mid ninties and the advent of Digital etc, Rights holders have been making good use of the technology to enforce geographical areas for the purpose of lining their pockets( which unfortunately for us in a free capitalist society, they are entitled to do)

Analog Reception across geographical boundaries is an anomoly, which rights holders would like to see gone.
mm

carrolls

Yeah, Charles this is correct, but that is basically the point I was making too.
The cable (Piped) service in Dublin in the Seventies could only be viable if it offered the UK channels. For years they did this and the UK companies were powerless to stop them because the channels couldn't physically be switched off to Irish viewers.
A compromise was reached about 10 years ago where the cable companies payed a minimal sum to the UK companies to carry the channels.
As long as fortuitous analog terrestial from the UK is available in Ireland, the UK companies only option is a legal one regarding carriage with Irish cable companies.
As I speak, there is a Limerick company re-broadcasting BBC, ITV and Channel 4 from a Sky Digital feed that can be picked up with a UHF aerial. It would be a technological miracle to stop this outfit from broadcasting by blocking them. The only avenue is the courts.

icdg

Originally posted by madman
Just to add to this.
UTV was available for years in many parts of ROI on cable,and for many of those years they were not paid at all.
It was a case of nudge , nudge, we'll say nothing.....
But then they forced the issue of payment , probably at the behest of the ITV network centre.
If even back then Cablelink refused to pay-At that stage they would have been forced stop carriage.

It's a little known fact nowadays that many of the cable companies, whose successor companies Chorus and NTL now carry UTV, did not do so up until the 1990s. They carried the easier to pick up HTV Wales instead.

What changed it was two things, which happened almost totally in unison with each other:

(1) The Broadcasting Act 1990 which capped RTE's expenditure and advertising time. Many companies could not now afford to advertise on RTE and RTE could not meet the demand for TV advertising. With TV3 unable to fund itself at the time, the companies went to the only alternative they could: the then Ulster Television. Ulster TV landed itself a huge amount of advertising from the south, and "encouraged" cable companies to broadcast UTV instead of HTV. (The Act of 1990 was repealled by the Broadcasting Authority (Amendment ) Act 1993, but by then the damage was done and Ulster Television was rebranded UTV).

(2) The advent of the MMDS system. Princes Holdings (which grew into Chorus) constructed a network to relay the NI terrestrial channels to the MMDS network. This network was operated by PHL on behalf of all the MMDS licencees and allowed the cable companies in areas heretofore unreached by the NI channels to access a strong signal.

UTV is now universally available on cable and MMDS, a thread on the Cable and MMDS board recently indicated that at least one of the 3 Chorus regions which were still recently carrying HTV has now switched to UTV (albeit an off-air relay of the MMDS signal). According to UTV's new corporate website, about 70% of ROI homes can recieve the channel. Obviously not DSat only homes, but you can bet that as long as they remain an independent company they will be trying to change that...

tombenjr

Originally posted by icdg


It's a little known fact nowadays that many of the cable companies, whose successor companies Chorus and NTL now carry UTV, did not do so up until the 1990s. They carried the easier to pick up HTV Wales instead.

What changed it was two things, which happened almost totally in unison with each other:

(1) The Broadcasting Act 1990 which capped RTE's expenditure and advertising time. Many companies could not now afford to advertise on RTE and RTE could not meet the demand for TV advertising. With TV3 unable to fund itself at the time, the companies went to the only alternative they could: the then Ulster Television. Ulster TV landed itself a huge amount of advertising from the south, and "encouraged" cable companies to broadcast UTV instead of HTV. (The Act of 1990 was repealled by the Broadcasting Authority (Amendment ) Act 1993, but by then the damage was done and Ulster Television was rebranded UTV).

(2) The advent of the MMDS system. Princes Holdings (which grew into Chorus) constructed a network to relay the NI terrestrial channels to the MMDS network. This network was operated by PHL on behalf of all the MMDS licencees and allowed the cable companies in areas heretofore unreached by the NI channels to access a strong signal.


UTV is now universally available on cable and MMDS, a thread on the Cable and MMDS board recently indicated that at least one of the 3 Chorus regions which were still recently carrying HTV has now swit

But I have Chorus cable in Co.Wexford they said that HTV Wales will be converted
to UTV in October 2001 and six months later we still have HTV Wales.
I would love to see UTV and Channel 4 on Sky Digital which i also have and I will
give up Crappus Corus next month as RTE's are now on it.:)

Tombenjr
That wouldn't be New Ross by any chance and that big Presely Chorus Quad aerial,they have in the town?
Does your HTV have nicam stereo sound when relayed by Crappus?
As in Arklow-they took HTV off about two years ago and now have UTV on from an mmds tower they constructed,complete with a 12 element VP vhf pointed to Mt Leinster for the RTÉ's.

don't know what they use for the crap TV3 picture they have.
Most people have to plug out their crappus and get a better picture.
Oh Ethain-what wonderfull standards you apply:rolleyes:
mm

eoinm1

Hi Lads
This is my first post here but i hope it is not the Last.

I send ITV an E-mail through their web based comments option www.itv.com

Here is the reply (I removed my email address)

Eóin

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To: DutyOffice3/Press/ITV@ITV
cc:
Subject: Comments Mailing

Hi I am a Sky Digital subscriber in the Republic of Ireland.
I would like to know if ITV have any plans in allowing UTV to Broadcast in
Ireland. Both NTL and Chorus provide UTV on the basic package of their
digital packages.

I feel you are missing out on a way of making money and many people like my
self are missing out on some quality television.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the availability of ITV1 in
Ireland via Digital Satellite.

ITV is a UK broadcaster, which is why our transmissions are only available
to those in the UTV broadcast region of Northern Ireland. To take this one
stage further, our programme rights for Digital Satellite are also only for
the UK.

UTV as an independent broadcaster are looking into the possibility of
providing their service throughout Ireland on satellite, but there are a
number of issues involved, so they are unable to elaborate any further at
this stage.

Kind Regards,

ITV1 Duty Office

icdg

I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion for the cable and MMDS boards, but anyway, lets bury this and get on topic.

All Chorus and NTL regions carry UTV, bar 3 Chorus regions inherited from CMI: Arklow, New Ross, Rathnew.

Arklow, Madman indicates, has switched to a UTV off-air MMDS relay.

Perhaps Rathnew and New Ross have not switched, but will soon. (It will have to happen before digital comes to the area, at any rate).

Back on DSat related topic now...

tombenjr

Originally posted by madman
Tombenjr
That wouldn't be New Ross by any chance and that big Presely Chorus Quad aerial,they have in the town?
Does your HTV have nicam stereo sound when relayed by Crappus?
As in Arklow-they took HTV off about two years ago and now have UTV on from an mmds tower they constructed,complete with a 12 element VP vhf pointed to Mt Leinster for the RTÉ's.

don't know what they use for the crap TV3 picture they have.
Most people have to plug out their crappus and get a better picture.
Oh Ethain-what wonderfull standards you apply:rolleyes:
mm

Yes it New ross and it has nicam stereo sond but it
bad picture and sound. Anyway back to DSAT I got an
e-mail today from Orla about UTV in ROI and
she replied No change ,still in talks with ITV network.

How long doesn't take to talk!!!! They are only worriied about
big their pocket will fill with money.

John Q

Heards a reply I got from channel 4 yesterday


Dear John

We have no plans at the present time to launch Channel 4 in the Republic of Ireland.

The next BIG BROTHER has not yet been scheduled. It will be heavily trailed on both Channel 4 and in the press, though, so we would urge you to keep your eyes open for details.

Regards

Caroline Murphy
Information Officer

So it seems CH4 don't give a hoot about sky subscribers in the republic (not even in talks)

:mad: :mad:

With a name like Caroline murphy-theres Irish in that blood somewhere.
They may have no plans to launch in ROI-but that doesn't rule out thinking about it.
mm

byte

Well at least the reply included "at the present time" :rolleyes:

Maybe it will be on in future?! (hopefully near future)

robert muldoon

Recent developments vis a vis Carlton & Granada in merger discussions etc,etc, really puts the ITV network in some dissaray, I understand its now being run by two guys ,one from Granada and the other from Carlton to replace Stuart Prebble. I cant see in the midst of all this,UTV getting a look in to discuss their problem in rebroadcasting to ROI on BSkyB. It will take some months to see where all of this is going to settle down - or maybe I'm wrong and discussions are at an advanced stage, who knows?????