PDs Manifesto promises

vinnyfitz

The PDs published their manifesto yesterday - you can down load the PDF here if you have the time - it seems very slow. http://www.progressivedemocrats.ie/news/200201/Manifesto2002.pdf

The three (pretty vague) telecomms commitments are on page 47:
- building infrastrucutre as planned in the Nat Development Plan
- "to create real competion for local phone services by ensuring the unbundling of the local loop. If the ODTR requires further legislative backing to acheive this we will provide it."
- to encourage roll out of new technologies such as 3G minimising red tape.

They also mention IT in education and supporting voluntary and community efforts to bring IT to those who would otherwise not have access.

In the education section - page 70 - they also commit to ensuring "over the life time of the next Government every school will have access to a broadband connection".
Lets see if anyone else commits themselves more.

MDR

They are so screwed at the next election, I wonder ifs even worth bothering noting their proposals. The money is on the Fianna Fail/Independs or Fianna Fail/'Labour coalition at the next election. Its a bit like reading Sinn Fein's proposals on policing ...

gandalf

Sorry but this from a party that doesn't mention its web address on any literature, doesn't have its TDs email address accessable on that website. They are clueless when it come to internet and related subjects.

Gandalf.

astrofool

I think the bit about selling off semi state companies in order to fund the health service is a "bit" barmy. Very long term thinking from the PD's there.....

Also they are against the new stadium now, and FF came out at the weekend saying it had to be built, so the PD's have really shot themselves in the foot.

Felix Randel

A vote for ff is a vote for the pd's

I am discussed by the propossed sell off of state assets liek the esb. The question es to be asked, are these people retards? answer, yes

dahamsta

I'm just humoured by the appearance of the name of an Irish political party and the word "promises" in the same sentence. Shurely Shome Mishtake?

adam

Typedef

Ha, haha.

From the party that brought you privitisation of public services and state owned telecom services falling into the hands of corporate lakies, comes the statutory 'thinking out of the box' rant from clueless politico types.
QED.

dahamsta

They couldn't think their way out of a paper bag when it comes to technology. When the systems go down in Dáil Éireann they run around whining "broken magic, broken magic" until a twelve year old comes along to fix it.

(Sorry Dustaz. Some people get frustrated by Eircom, I get frustrated by the Muppets we put into Government. Although that's probably not fair to the real Muppets.)

adam

MDR

I get frustrated by the Muppets we put into Government

Ok, the government suck when it comes to technology. This is really no suprise, the government is principly made up of people the age of of your da, who can't even program the home vcr. The responsibilty I supose then is shifted to us lobby/inform them of what they need to know and to occasionally record 'Winning Streak' while their at the pub.

I can see how peeps, would get very frustrated with them, but as I would argue, they are better than the alternative ... baldy noonan and chums. They are no better or worse then the shower of fools they have in Britain (I don't feel, perhaps I am wrong, that they encouraged broadband any more than we did, the just have a bigger catchment) ...

dahamsta

The responsibilty I supose then is shifted to us lobby/inform them of what they need to know

I don't think that's strictly true MDR. This isn't just about technology, it is about economics and society. Technology has become an absolutely vital part of modern society. Any country that doesn't attempt to understand and embrace it is doomed to failure, both economically and socially. Any economist worth their salt would point this out in a flash. So did the economists fail to point it out, or did the Government choose to ignore them?

It shouldn't be /our/ task to tell them this, they should know it already - should have known it five years ago. It is up to them to employ advisors who /do/ understand, consultants who can explain. By choosing the wrong advisors, the Government has demonstrated their inability to manage this country. By choosing advisors and consultants who were transparently involved to achieve their own ends, the Government is exposed even further.

EDIT: I'm not going to ask people to vote for any one party or for any particular TD. What I am going to ask people is /not/ to vote Fianna Fail or Progressive Democrat. These parties have failed the people they represent in many, many fields, but in this field in particular, technology, they have caused damage that will affect our country for many years, if not decades, to come. They must not be allowed back into power. No votes, no transfers.

adam

MDR

Adam,

I am finding it difficult to articulate my feelings on this subject (it doesn't happen often). I suppose I have a few different minds about it

My first reaction would be that Government is not stupid. Most organisations/people etc apart from a few of us here and their (more here than there me thinks) act in their own self interest. Therefore they best way to achieve results is to appeal to their self-interest, how this would be done to achieve our objectives isn't clear.

My seconds reaction would be that the Government is stupid, and that they are being advised by consultants and industry who acts in their own interests. Should they be smart enough to employ better consultants, perhaps but then as I have worked as a consultant for them in the 'Department of Argiculture and Rural development', I can testify that the tendering process for that type of adviser work is usually (but not always) above board.

My third opinion would be, that they are all stupid consultants, industry and government, they have no forsight and their policies are more reactionary than pro-active.

What worries me, is that I think the truth lies somewhere between all of this mumblings. I don't believe that they are all Manovolent, evil and self-serving, nor do I believe do they act 100% in the interest of the population. I don't believe that they are the best informed, but nor are they the worst informed. I don't believe they are the best advised, nor are they the worst advised.

I think our problems with Government, Eircom and the ODTR in general are symptomatic of problems in Irish society as a whole .. but thats and argument for another day ...

I don't share you views about not voting for the existing government adam, because I believe that the alternative would be even more disasterous. Telecom's is a very important issue, but there are other issue's.

Mountjoy Mugger

How appropriate the manifesto is in pdf format. PD Fiction, I tell ya...

El_MUERkO

The PD's looked at Tory policies in the UK during the mid eightys, saw how well privatisation and the selling off of state assets worked and decided it'd be a good idea to butt-F**k ireland back into the stoneage.

I want them to die (or failing that get zero votes).

MDR

I want them to die (or failing that get zero votes).

Me thinks you will get you wish, privatisation was indeed a disaster in the case of Eircom, but if it had never been privatised, do you believe it would be offering reasonably priced net access? Me thinks in the case of Eircom, the problem is not the ownership of the company, but the ethos of the company.

dahamsta

I don't share you views about not voting for the existing government adam, because I believe that the alternative would be even more disasterous. Telecom's is a very important issue, but there are other issue's.

There's only one other major issue for me personally at this time, and that's Governmental support for small businesses, and the Government have failed me here too. On both major issues that have affected my lifestyle, my earning potential, my happiness, the Government has quite dramatically let me down.

Don't get me wrong, I /liked/ Bertie Ahern while he was making the transition from "De Nortsoide TD" to "Respected Statesman", and up until a (relatively) short time ago, I would have supported his continuance in Government. Not any more. The scandals, the farcical mistakes, the arrogance and the idiocy coming out of Government in the last six months has grown to such proportions that I can't ignore it any more. Something has to change.

In the last few days, I've been looking for Fianna Fail posters so I can start my own wee campaign. The first one to suffer the Beecher Photoshop Effect will be Bertie's lovely mug over the words "Peace, Prosperity, Progress". I can think of some much more suitable descriptive terms:

Abbeylara, Teahon, Eircom

adam

MDR

Adam,

I amn't arguing for the current government's track record, yes they have made more than their fair share of mistakes I have no doubt. Although I don't completely agree with you on the Teahon affair, I think that it was largely stupidity on Teahon's part (trying to cover his own ass) and the mass media blowing things out proportion.

The only two parties I see being able to form an effective Government is Fianna Fail and Labour. The rest of them are an absolute joke, these are the only to parties with suffiecent direction are part displine to form a strong government. Ireland needs strong Government now more than ever, any thing else and we would be back to the dark, un-certain days of the Rainbow coaltion or worse.

You have made ampily clear the basis on which you judge the government; Eircom and small buisness. I am more of a socialist I freely admit, I judge the government on the quality of lives of the people it represents. Dis-regarding all the spin the mass media have put on this issue from the elated 'we have never had it so good' to the doom&gloom of 'the celtic tiger roars no more'. I firmly believe the quality of life, under the present government has been increasing at a faster (I mean faster, not at a fast rate) rate than under previous administrations.

I also believe that the oposition parties (apart from Labour) have no radically changed since the ill-fated Rainbow Coalition. Despite having a growing economy under the Rainbow Coaltition, there where no major social welfare increases, no child benefit increases, no tax reduction/relief of any kind (except to the farming community) ... I could go on but I won't, I hope people have not forgotten what a disasterous administration John Brutal and boy where.

Adam, if you are looking for an improvement, you won't find it in the opposition (except as i have been at pains to express Labour, no I am not a member), if you are looking for a perfect government, you only have to look across the boader and the sea, to see their is no such thing. I amn't saying you have a great selection, nor am I saying Fianna Fail is great, but I do believe they aren't as bad as the alternative.

m1ke

it's time to get FF and the PD's out of government, they've screwed us over for 5 years... they've had their chance... it's time to put someone else in, and if they screw up in another 5 years time .... then they're OUT too. That's the way it should be, they have to live up to their pre-election promises and bull**** otherwise we the electorate should butt **** them out of office really fast.

vinnyfitz

Hang on folks
The idea of reporting the parties commitments in threads here is so that
- we can analyse them,
- see what is missing,
- push candidates when we meet them on the doorsteps,
- spot inconsistencies with things we have learnt elsewhere about where the parties stand and
- in general get the message across that we are watching.

Lets save the rants and general political commentary for the pub or the politics forums.:)