UTV working with ODTR to start new flat rate access...

Dustaz

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yurmasyurda:
As title;

I got an email from utv saying that they are moving towards flat rate access for all republic of ireland members and they currently support bonded isdn which is an added extra, they said and quoted

"We are also looking at new packages/dialup options using 1891 and also
1892/1893 (these are new billing tariffs being introduced by the ODTR
for net access) and it is our aim to implement flat rate packages in
the Republic of Ireland as soon as possible."

Hopefully they will have enough servers and bandwith/capacity, cos you and I know what's gonna happen if they do this as soon as they are thinking of doing it. every isp located in Ireland will have no more customers, just thought I'd cheer you all up with this especially after that esat nl fiasco.

Cheers, and I'll keep yis updated!

Yurma

[This message has been edited by Yurmasyurda (edited 12-05-2001).]</font>

Dont get too excited
I rang em up when i heard they were going to introduce flatrate here. I was told they have to wait for thier telco provider to get organised properly and we were basically looking at 'very late 20001/early 2002' before they would be able to get it fully up and running.
I cant for the life of me remmeber the telco's name. sorry.

chernobyl

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yurmasyurda:

every isp located in Ireland will have no more customers, just thought I'd cheer you all up with this especially after that esat nl fiasco.
</font>

i think Eircom will have the first true flat rate and the rest will follow and i think will will see 56k flatrate from Eircom approx 1month before local loop unbundling.
as for "every isp in ireland will have no more customers"...after surf no limits i think any isp who introduce flatrate will release it on a "first come first serve" basis which numbers restrictions on the amount of users.
still its is good news.

[This message has been edited by Yurmasyurda (edited 12-05-2001).][/B][/QUOTE]

Lex_Diamonds

WTF?! Joe22 hasnt posted yet!

Joe22

"i think any isp who introduce flatrate will release it on a "first come first serve" basis which numbers restrictions on the amount of users."
why, if flat rate makes them money, which it will soon enough, then why would they restrict numbers.
Lex_Diamonds problem solved

Balfa

ah lex, you had to go and tempt fate

Yurmasyurda

As title;

I got an email from utv saying that they are moving towards flat rate access for all republic of ireland members and they currently support bonded isdn which is an added extra, they said and quoted

"We are also looking at new packages/dialup options using 1891 and also
1892/1893 (these are new billing tariffs being introduced by the ODTR
for net access) and it is our aim to implement flat rate packages in
the Republic of Ireland as soon as possible."

Hopefully they will have enough servers and bandwith/capacity, cos you and I know what's gonna happen if they do this as soon as they are thinking of doing it. every isp located in Ireland will have no more customers, just thought I'd cheer you all up with this especially after that esat nl fiasco.

Cheers, and I'll keep yis updated!

Yurma

[This message has been edited by Yurmasyurda (edited 12-05-2001).]

Paladin

An eircom sales girl called me yesterday trying to sell Hi-Speed. I asked about DSL and when it will be implemented and she said it has been further delayed for more testing and it will be 2/3 years b4 its available.

Whether this is accurate or not, its still a load of sh|t.

If it IS 2/3 years then thats ******.

If its less than that and they lied simply to sell hi-speed then THATS boll0x.

Eircom = Boll0x

Joe22

well their hardly going to say tell you the truth,
in all fairness most here who still think we will get it dont think it will be here untill this time next year

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Paladin:
If its less than that and they lied simply to sell hi-speed then THATS Boll0x.</font>

Sales staff only get told stuff thats available to sell now. It would not be in Eircom's interest to tell them that a much better product is just around the courner. This would make it hard for them to sell old ISDN products. What they say about DSL is either hearsay or lies.

From Eircom's point of view, hi-speed is a much better product. It gets advertised like it was ADSL and yet it is much slower and gets charged by the minute. They will not give this up until they have to. What will make them give it up will be LLU and other companies offering ADSL and taking away their 'hi-speed' customers. I suspect a lot of nolimits customers will migrate in the absence of any other flat-rate product.

To cling on to customers, Eircom will then offer ADSL. If Eircom feels they are going to lose the LLU battle, they will start offering ADSL. Prior to this, there will be a major hi-speed campaign in order to squeeze the last bit out of this product. I think this is going on now.

Anyway, even at the board level, I doubt if Eircom knows when they are actually going to offer this product. They know they are going to have to at some stage but when is out of their control.

rymus

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joe22:
why, if flat rate makes them money, which it will soon enough, then why would they restrict numbers.</font>

Because my little friend, it would be a perfect repeat of the snl death if they opened it up to an unlimited amount of users. Maybe their best option would be to start with a few thousand users and then as they upgrade and install new servers and get more bandwidth they could offer the service to an additional few thousand users. Believe it or not, isp's will learn from esat's stupid mistake.

-ADREN-

I am soooo tired at this early time in the day and i have no idea y i posted this here

Koopa

it wouldnt be a repeat of the esat snl thing, esat snl was released initially because esat thought at the time (2 years ago) that eircom were going to offer flatrate local calls "soon", they were obviously wrong and had to finally close snl.. the reason snl was closed was NOT because they had "too many customers", thats a load of ******, it was closed because esat realised that eircom were never going to give flatrate access until they were forced to, and esat couldnt exactly force them.

as for "isp's learning from esats stupid mistake", esat took a risk, it didnt pay off, if a company like esat had never taken risks like these, it would have probably gone out of business way back in 1998 or something

Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Koopa:
the reason snl was closed was NOT because they had "too many customers", thats a load of ******, it was closed because esat realised that eircom were never going to give flatrate access until they were forced to, and esat couldnt exactly force them.
</font>

It hasn't been "closed"- they are, however, NOT taking on any new subscribers.

The reason it's being scaled back is that it isn't commercially viable to Esat under the current circumstances. Hopefully, with action on the ODTR's part and on the part of the new national Internet user association (which is being formed at the moment- watch the ie.comp newsgroup for details), it will possibly become somewhat viable again...

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

Koopa

basically, snl was never designed to make a profit until eircom gave flatrate local calls, it was a loss leader in that people would sign up to esat, and then when countless other isp's started offering flatrate too (maybe 6 months later, when eircom announced unmetered local calls), most existing esat customers would not see the point in switching to another isp for the same product (fixed rate internet access)

as for "testing adsl", what the **** do they mean exactly, why does eircom need to test adsl when its been tested and found to work in other countries for years now, why would it not work here?
same for cable, what the **** is there to test about cable, its been around for years now, longer than adsl

Koopa

"nolimits" has been closed, they have changed the terms of the agreement totally even for the remaining customers, its not exactly nolimits anymore

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
The reason it's being scaled back is that it isn't commercially viable to Esat under the current circumstances
</font>

it was never "commercially viable" to esat, they had totally banked on the fact that they (and everyone else) thought we would have free local calls at least 2 years ago

Dustaz

I wonder when they are planning to tell me about the changed terms of agreement. Obviously i know all about it from reading the news, but i havent recieved a letter or email from them with any official word about the 75 hours a month thing.

Koopa

they probably wont tell you about it, they might even have decided not to cut as many people so quickly because of the bad publicity it has generated so far, but they will do it.. unless youre thick enough to sign up for a £20 a month fixed rate service and use less than £20 worth in a month, you are costing them money

Blitzkrieger

weren't UTV the shower of jokers with a 250MB download limit? I can't remember if it was per-month or per-week but even with per-week it was way too low.

Joe22

that was 250 a month and it wasnt what you downloaded, it was internal bandwidth

Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Koopa:
"nolimits" has been closed, they have changed the terms of the agreement totally even for the remaining customers, its not exactly nolimits anymore
</font>

If it were "closed" I, and many others, wouldn't still be able to use it... which we ARE.

They PLAN to close it. It's not closed yet.

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Koopa:
as for "testing adsl", what the **** do they mean exactly, why does eircom need to test adsl when its been tested and found to work in other countries for years now, why would it not work here?</font>

They have been "testing" adsl for years. Testing means that adsl is available to staff and friends of staff but not the public. It is not testing in the usual meaning. If they provided adsl they could not sell hi-speed, a service from which they make a fortune.

PiE

Well when exactly WILL the lower rates that the ODTR announced be implemented ffs? If it was forced upon eircon now, couldn't Esat postpone plans to cut off it's customers?

Koopa

bard, what you are using now is not the same nolimits that you signed up to, esat reserve the right to change the terms of the contract and terminate the contract at any time, and the contracts terms have been changed, whether they have informed you or not doesnt matter, they informed me by sending me the letter, that they were changing the terms of the contract.. otherwise i could not have "overused" the service, as the service had no limit on usage when i signed up to it.

esat dont have to tell you when they change the terms of the service, when you signed up you allowed esat to terminate the service at any time for "no reason" given one months notice

[This message has been edited by Koopa (edited 13-05-2001).]

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PiE:
Well when exactly WILL the lower rates that the ODTR announced be implemented ffs? If it was forced upon eircon now, couldn't Esat postpone plans to cut off it's customers?</font>

The recent rates announced by the ODTR have nothing to do with dial-up access. These were to do with LLU which is all about DSL type services. The ODTR did introduce flat-rate telephone codes for dialup but they didn't impose any rates associated with them. They left this to negotiations between ISPs and Eircom.

In Britian they have the Flat Rate Internet Access Call Origination (FRIACO) product which means a flat rate is mandated on BT for dial-up isps.

I don't think anything like this is being planned for here. We are further behind than you think

Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Koopa:
bard, what you are using now is not the same nolimits that you signed up to
</font>

No, what I'm using right now is IOL Free, as Esat saw fit not to allow me use my new phone number on SNL (saying that changing it would require opening a new account- which they're not allowing. Strange... it didn't require opening a new account before). The rest of what you said, Koopa, is no news. Most companies put such a clause in contracts - it's standard.

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

Greenbean

If you're using iol free then what are you bl33ting about bard? Koopa is correct in asserting surf-no-limits as we knew it is gone, closed or however you want to term an easily understood concept.

Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Greenbean:
If you're using iol free then what are you bl33ting about bard? Koopa is correct in asserting surf-no-limits as we knew it is gone, closed or however you want to term an easily understood concept.</font>

Surf No-Limits is not gone (yet). I can still use it on my old phone line, and I still get monthly bills for it.

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

PiE

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Skeptic1:
They left this to negotiations between ISPs and Eircom.B]</font>

Sigh.

Koopa

you may be still getting billed for it as surf nolimits but THE TERMS HAVE CHANGED, its not the same deal anymore, half the country knows this by now, i dont know why you are going on about it ("its not over until esat's last customer has formally recieved a letter with a gold seal stating that esat surf no limits is officially finished in front of the president, and then they let off some bangers and have a big parade, with LASERS!!, THEN its over")

my main point was that esat nolimits was not meant to make a profit until eircom gave flatrate local calls, basically eircom havent done this in the last two years (just about everyone at the time thought we would have free local calls in 1999 or 2000 at the latest), a likely reason esat didnt shut off nolimits earlier was because the original owner sold esat about 6 months after the nolimits deal was introduced, the new ownership probably were just trying to figure out how to kick everyone off nolimits(on which esat never made a profit, as eircom never gave them unmetered calls) without ****ing them off too much in the process

Balfa

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Skeptic1:

The recent rates announced by the ODTR have nothing to do with dial-up access. These were to do with LLU which is all about DSL type services. </font>

LLU means that we, the customers, can tell a telco we want to be on their network and not eircom's. that telco then goes to eircom with a mandatory purchase order of the very phoneline that goes from the local exchange into your house. at this point eircom no longer own the phoneline (currently they do, and you pay your £10 a month line rental to them), and your new telco can do whatever you ask them to do with it, including dialup and DSL and whatever else.

so as you see, LLU is not simply "all about DSL type services", it's to do with anything that can be done with a two strands of copper wire twisted together.

[This message has been edited by Balfa (edited 14-05-2001).]

Overlord

Nice 1 Balfa - that explanation was enlightening.
and Bard you should be ashamed of yourself.
Give yourself a slap in the face in the future.

Joe22

Skeptic1, thats the biggest load of bull**** if ever heard,
the otdr set prices for aload of stuff,
LLU is not just about adsl,
they set prices for access to eircoms dial up network to prices for the rental of the normal phone line that you get every 6 weeks.
LLU effect people who dont even have the net

Bard

Christ!

For the most part I agree with you!

All I was pointing out was that the use of the word "closed" was incorrect. The service is still available. The terms and conditions may have changed, but it is not "closed".

'Nuff said. This thread wasn't even ABOUT Esat anyway!

[This message has been edited by Bard (edited 14-05-2001).]

Excelsior

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Overlord:
...Bard you should be ashamed of yourself.
Give yourself a slap in the face in the future.</font>

That is a gift general quote. Whether it is about No Limits or not, just take the advice. All of us should.
Bronntanas Overlord, Bronntanas

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My Adolescent website:
http://www.iol.net/~mullent

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Balfa:
LLU means that we, the customers, can tell a telco we want to be on their network and not eircom's. that telco then goes to eircom with a mandatory purchase order of the very phoneline that goes from the local exchange into your house. at this point eircom no longer own the phoneline (currently they do, and you pay your £10 a month line rental to them), and your new telco can do whatever you ask them to do with it, including dialup and DSL and whatever else.
</font>

This is true in theory. In practice telcos will only make use of this facility for DSL. What you are suggesting would involve the other telcos installing full analogue exchanges sitting alongside eircom's. They may do this eventually but it would be unique in Europe. It would certainly be overkill for an ISP to take over the entire function of an exchange just to provide low margin flat-rate interent. UTVInternet certainly aren't going to do this.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">so as you see, LLU is not simply "all about DSL type services", it's to do with anything that can be done with a two strands of copper wire twisted together.
</font>

I said this in the context of people thinking that when the LLU starts being implemented, flat-rate dialup will become available. The reason you have several ISPs in Britian is not because of LLU but because of FRIACO. This is what UTVInternet is on about. I know where you're coming from and should have phrased the original statement differently.