Meeting with ESAT: April 11, 2002

SkepticOne

Meeting with ESAT: April 11, 2002

Attending

IrelandOffline: David Long (Chairman), Michael Megan.

ESAT: David Taylor (Head of Regulatory Affairs), Andrew Conlan-Trant (Director of Marketing & Products).

1. What is the status of the 18,000 or so existing nolimits customers? Is that service still under threat?

This is reviewed every month. ESAT cannot rule out cancelling the contracts of more nolimits customers over the coming months. The continued availability of the product cannot be guaranteed. Nevertheless, ESAT believe that there is demand for the product and that it is financially viable given the appropriate FRIACO deal from Eircom.

2. Are negotiations on-going with Eircom about a FRIACO style deal?

Negotiations have never technically stopped although Eircom have consistently frustrated them to the extent that ESAT cannot afford to keep resources on a project that does not appear to have an early conclusion in sight and where the timeframe is not in their control.

Additionally, the ODTR seem not to understand the intricacies of the product and Esat cannot continue to provide what is effectively free consultancy to them. Resources are scarce and have to be allocated to projects that will bring a return within a reasonable timeframe.

FRIACO is a complex product and it is easy for the other party to drag out negotiations. Eircom have never refused, in principle, the idea of a FRIACO product.

3. Do ESAT think there are any regulatory bottlenecks preventing the development of flat-rate services?

One problem is that the concept of "breakdown in negotiations" is not clearly defined. Since the other party have not refused the product, ESAT cannot complain to the ODTR on this basis. There is no timescale associated with the idea of breakdown and therefore this cannot be used as the basis of a complaint. In negotiation for a complex product the process of proposal and counter-proposal can, potentially, continue indefinitely.

4. Is ESAT going to offer services over Eircom's bitstream ADSL service?

Yes. In fact, ESAT is currently trialling ADSL services with its customers.

5. Can ESAT tell us what services will be offered out of the exchanges operating under LLU?

Potentially, the full range of DSL services can be supplied out of the exchanges under LLU. These include SDSL and ADSL. The final set of products are not yet determined and will depend on market conditions.

Dustaz

the plot thickens then?

This whole 'negotiations have not broken down' is a new angle to the whole fiasco.

I see ESATs point, but cant they just ask for a ludicruous price, have eircom refuse and get the regulator to step in and define a middle ground?

aidan_dunne

Christ almighty, this is totally crazy!

Talk about a vicious circle. Are we ever going to see a solution to all this bull$hit? I'm seriously starting to wonder if Esat are serious at all about trying to get Eircom to offer FRIACO. They seem to be passing the buck to the ODTR and Eircom, Eircom are passing the buck to the ODTR and the other operators and the ODTR are passing the buck to Eircom and the OLO's. Will someone PLEASE take some sort of responsibility for this mess and try to get something done, otherwise I think that I will have to take this matter into my own hands; hands that will be carrying an Uzi at the time!

Rant over!

JTMan

Negotiations have never technically stopped although Eircom have consistently frustrated them to the extent that ESAT cannot afford to keep resources on a project that does not appear to have an early conclusion in sight and where the timeframe is not in their control

Negotiations for a FRIACO product should not be taking part between the telco's. The ODTR should state the conditions for Flat-Rate that Eircom have to comply with.

IO should campaign the *regulator* to design a FRIACO package rather than leaving it up to telco negotiations where it is clearly failing.

OFTEL did this in the UK and it worked.

dahamsta

Hi Fungus,

Negotiations for a FRIACO product should not be taking part between the telco's. The ODTR should state the conditions for Flat-Rate that Eircom have to comply with.

The ODTR maintains that it is not legally entitled to mandate a flat-rate product in Ireland.

IO should campaign the *regulator* to design a FRIACO package rather than leaving it up to telco negotiations where it is clearly failing.

IrelandOffline has, and has received the above answer many, many times. If you read the report of IrelandOffline's recent meeting with the ODTR, you will see that the ODTR maintains that IrelandOffline should lobby the telco's. And as you can see from this report, the OLO's think it is up to the ODTR.

Rock -> IrelandOffline <- Hard Place

OFTEL did this in the UK and it worked.

I'm afraid that's not correct Fungus. FRIACO was mandated in the UK in response to a complaint by WorldCom against BT. However it /has/ happened in other countries.

adam

JTMan

The ODTR maintains that it is not legally entitled to mandate a flat-rate product in Ireland.

A critical area, as I know is been done, is focusing the canvassing on getting the additional power of mandating packages to the ODTR.

FRIACO was mandated in the UK in response to a complaint by WorldCom

Yeah okay, WorldCom made the complaint which lead to FRIACO but they did not deisgn it. AOL, CUT and OFTEL *deisgned* the package together. CUT had a huge input in the design of the package.

Fergus

afaik, BT came up with FRIACO by themselves thinking it would give them an edge with a new product option to sell to Internet users. But then Worldcom got em under the EU directive about SMPs having to offer other operators wholesale access to own products.

JTMan

afaik, BT came up with FRIACO by themselves

#

Are you joking! NO, No. BT did not deisgn FRIACO. As Stated AOL, CUT and OFTEL Designed FRIACO. BT did design a Flat-rate package before FRIACO called Sufttime and were partically responsible for Surfttime2. Surftime1 and 2 failed.

Fergus

Sorry, I meant Surftime