yasser arafat a muppet

Flemmish Flame

Now that the situation in the Middle East escalating and burning. Everybody is automatically blaming the Israeli's and they will never the world peace price however a lot of people seem to forget, although Israel has made hudge mistakes in the past and regularly goes overboard in the meassures taken. However this does not cover the fact that the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat in the few that he has been granted governement has done nothing what so ever to (re)form the state of Palistina into a modern young state with all the marks and features of democratic society. No instead Yasser has done nothing about the refugees in Jordania. He has not done a single thing to convince the people of Palistina that dialogue is more longer yet more efficient and you can actually cross a street safely. He openly socializes with extremists and does nothing what soever to refute them.
No in my way of thinking the Israeli's are as much to blame as the palestinian leaders. Yet they don't let anybody tell them what do .... And that Idiot of Arafat does.... because the biggest winner of this all is the Arabic League... their bankaccounts, as every oil producing country, are getting bigger and bigger

Victor

So he isn't to blame?

mike65

Yassar Arafat is either the most evil man in the middle east or the least effective, which is to say either he is not able to take control of his people in which case he is useless or he has control and is therefore conplicit in the terrorist campign against the Israeli public.

Mike.

Felix Randel

why should he talk with a gun literaly pointed as his head. To do so would make the israeli's think that they can achieve anything from the tactics of muder and mahem. The israelis need to be tought a lesson they wont forget, and that will only be achieved through suicide bombings.

mike65

why should he talk with a gun literaly pointed as his head. To do so would make the israeli's think that they can achieve anything from the tactics of muder and mahem. The israelis need to be tought a lesson they wont forget, and that will only be achieved through suicide bombings.

:rolleyes:


Arafat has had several oppotunities to talk peace but somehow manages to find enough reasons not to.

To quote the quote-
"Yassar Arafat never misses an oppotunity to miss an oppotunity."

Mike.

Felix Randel

Replace the word peace with surrender and you get closer to the truth. He cant just wave a magic wand and say yes there's peace. For peace Israeli would have to not only give up land but change completely how their society works, other wise there will never be an end to the violence. As long as one group are subjitcated and looked down upon as some kind of lower life forms, how will those wounds heal.

Arafat cant make promises he wont be allowed to keep, he cant make speeches that will wipe away years of oppression and mistakes on the Israeli part, he can declare peace tomorrow until every body both Israeli and Palestinian realize peace is the only way forwards.

Everybody says they want peace, what they really want is victory and then peace as a result, and the Israelis don't see why they will never achieve both.

dathi1

Arafat has had several opportunities to talk peace but somehow manages to find enough reasons not to.

oh yeah...so lets go in and bulldoze a few more Arab kids in the ruins cos that definitely wont get any TV coverage in a restricted military zone unlike our innocent victims in Jerusalem last Friday.. and oh let me see ahh yes!! blow up some more red crescent ambulances and em...illegally occupy more territory sure haven't we stolen the the rest anyway...and give 2 ****s to the UN. oh and we can always bring up the Holocaust if the Europeans get nasty with sanctions treats... and then we can always blame Arafat cos hes the Terrorist.

Sand

The israelis need to be tought a lesson they wont forget, and that will only be achieved through suicide bombings.

Thats one of the most evil things Ive ever read tbh.

Felix Randel

"The palestinians need to be though a serious lesson, and that will only be achieved by Military action"

Israeli press offcier on sky news

gandalf

Oh my God Felix what have you done. I am actually agreeing with Sand, well theres a first for everything.

Suicide bombings are not the answer, they are making a bad situation worse, far worse. The only people that can influence the Isreali Government is the US. If the Americans withdraw its economic and Military help until the Isreali Government complies with outstanding UN resolutions then you will see this conflict end very very quickly, the Palestinians will have to give proper assurances that they will do everything to stop terror attacks and the other Arab nations will have to state publically that they recognise Isreals right to exist.

Oh course with the US Governments track history of supporting the UN this is probably just a pipe dream.

Gandalf.

mike65

Dathi1, The above I suspect gives your ages away, I'm old enough to remember Black September et al, you'd think the Palestinians had never murdered anyone, ever. The Isreali action at the moment is self-defeating (the second most stupid/evil man in the Middle-east is Ariel Sharon). The suicide campiagn of the
Fata etc is also doomed to have no postive effect from the Palestinian perspective.

At some point both sides will have to sit down and both sides are going to have to give way on some basic issues, I just belive the PLO have futher to move. I actually suspect they dont want peace
as long as Israel exsists. The PLO have led "thier" people up the
garden path, any objective person should be able see they arer worse off now than at any time in recent history. Arafat is a corrupt and useless terrorist/politican. He could do a
lot worse than look at Gerry Adams, he wants what I don't want, but I belive he is a democrat at heart.

Mike.

Bateman

Without (a) condoning the use of suicide bombers, and (b) using the well-deserved sarcasm of Daithi, I must defend Arafat; he is hated the world over, he is not going to bend over backwards to the occupiers.
I think its often very easy to ignore what Arafat says: ie he does not support suicide bombing. Alright alright, he can say it in stronger terms, but the fact remains that he has called it, says he does not support it. So what else does he do? if he criticises the suicide bombers, there are 2 advantages. One, how does he know it will do any good? I mean it probably won't, in my view. The other disadvantage is that he willl alienate large sections of his own people by saying anything too harsh about the Al Aq'sa Brigades etc etc.
Its easy to see Israel as the victim when we see pictures all the time of the scene of suicide bombers. But how long will it be until independent inspectors are allowed into Jenin, which currently resembles an earthquake zone. The Palestinian people have nothing; Israel has made sure of that, and they have also made sure that they have nothing to lose. Tough.
And Ariel Sharon is a fat, obnoxious, evil bastard

Bateman

the other Arab nations will have to state publically that they recognise Isreals right to exist.

---

This has happened.

gandalf

My belief was that it was been offered as part of the Saudi peace deal but I don't think its actually happened yet.

Gandalf.

Felix Randel

Originally posted by gandalf
Oh my God Felix what have you done. I am actually agreeing with Sand, well theres a first for everything.

Suicide bombings are not the answer, they are making a bad situation worse, far worse. The only people that can influence the Isreali Government is the US. If the Americans withdraw its economic and Military help until the Isreali Government complies with outstanding UN resolutions then you will see this conflict end very very quickly, the Palestinians will have to give proper assurances that they will do everything to stop terror attacks and the other Arab nations will have to state publically that they recognise Isreals right to exist.

Oh course with the US Governments track history of supporting the UN this is probably just a pipe dream.

Gandalf.

Never said it was, but to allow isreal to act with impunity. to invade and murder at will without retaliation in some form, would only encourage a repeat performance. The isrealis need to know that 1) yes they can invade palestinian land but 2) there weman and children will suffer the exact same faith as the palestinain weman and children.

Whats the alternative, peace talks? After recent events there can be no peace talks, only surrender talks

dathi1

I'm old enough to remember Black September et al,

was a direct result of Israeli Illegal Occupation and Murder. do you remember the stern gang?

mike65

We could trade atrocites allnight....:( They will trade atrocities
all night and day and night and day and night and day-cont. p94

Mike.

Gargoyle

Originally posted by Felix Randel


Never said it was, but to allow isreal to act with impunity. to invade and murder at will without retaliation in some form, would only encourage a repeat performance. The isrealis need to know that 1) yes they can invade palestinian land but 2) there weman and children will suffer the exact same faith as the palestinain weman and children.

Whats the alternative, peace talks? After recent events there can be no peace talks, only surrender talks

Reminds me of what I heard an Israeli editorialist say the other day. His suggestion was that any suicide bomber should know without question that if he (or she) commits a suicide bombing, his immediate family will be killed.

ie: 1) yes they can commit suicide bombings but 2) there wives and children will be suffer the exact same fate as the victims of their bombing.

Now, would you agree with that policy?

BlitzKrieg

A teacher told me this today dunno if true:


A little detail most westerners miss in the whole palestinian isreali conflisct that about 30-40% of those palestinians living in fear etc etc are actually christian...But because of both Isreali propaganda and Western steriotyping they are automatically believed to be ALL muslim.


-Doesnt make a difference if Muslim or christian in my opinion its still wrong but I have friend who says all the palestinians should be shot because they are rag head allah worshipping etc etc offensive remarks about muslims...


-Of course this is the same guy who thought Bin laden was Isreali until a few of us corrected him...

bonkey

Originally posted by BlitzKrieg

A little detail most westerners miss in the whole palestinian isreali conflisct that about 30-40% of those palestinians living in fear etc etc are actually christian...But because of both Isreali propaganda and Western steriotyping they are automatically believed to be ALL muslim.

The figure I heard was 3% to 4%. One of us is out by a factor of 10...

jc

colinsky

Originally posted by Felix Randel

2) there weman and children will suffer the exact same faith as the palestinain weman and children.

I don't think that threatening them with Islam is really going to help the situation.

Flemmish Flame

in my knowledge Israel has not been recognised by the Arab countries some of them have yet others are adamant to do this

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by Bateman
the other Arab nations will have to state publically that they recognise Isreals right to exist.

---

This has happened.

No it hasn't. The closest any of them have come is Egypt in 1978. They have dropped the 'we want to drive all the Jews into the sea' part of their approach to Israel. None of the Arab states have recognised Israel's right to exsist.

Bateman

I would say that offering it as aprt of the peace plan is a de facto recognition. "Recognition", and ceasing to support Military Hamas, etc etc are two different things, one will not necessarily come with the other, so what good will recognition do?
Maybe Israel's right to exist will be "recognised" when Israel themselevs "recognise" that they have blatantly carried out war crimes eg helicopter gunships shooting indiscriminately in narrow streets from high in the air.

Gargoyle

Originally posted by BlitzKrieg
A teacher told me this today dunno if true:


A little detail most westerners miss in the whole palestinian isreali conflisct that about 30-40% of those palestinians living in fear etc etc are actually christian...But because of both Isreali propaganda and Western steriotyping they are automatically believed to be ALL muslim.

Tell me then, how many Christian suicide bombers have there been?

Victor

Originally posted by bonkey
The figure I heard was 3% to 4%. One of us is out by a factor of 10...

Bonkey's figure would seem more accurate.

Flemmish Flame

hate to say but gargoyle has a point there, Bateman;)

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by Victor


Bonkey's figure would seem more accurate.

My understanding, and this could be wrong I think it was just a man in a pub who told me, is that a majority of the Palestinians living in Israel itself ie minus the West Bank and Gaza are Christians. However these are split between Greek Orthodox, Armenians, Catholics, Maronites, Copts etc etc

And you thought Taig v Prod was confusing.......

Victor

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
My understanding, and this could be wrong I think it was just a man in a pub who told me, is that a majority of the Palestinians living in Israel itself ie minus the West Bank and Gaza are Christians. However these are split between Greek Orthodox, Armenians, Catholics, Maronites, Copts etc etc

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html

Israel: Ethnic groups: Jewish 80.1% (Europe/America-born 32.1%, Israel-born 20.8%, Africa-born 14.6%, Asia-born 12.6%), non-Jewish 19.9% (mostly Arab) (1996 est.)

Religions: Jewish 80.1%, Muslim 14.6% (mostly Sunni Muslim), Christian 2.1%, other 3.2% (1996 est.)

West Bank: Ethnic groups: Palestinian Arab and other 83%, Jewish 17%

Religions: Muslim 75% (predominantly Sunni), Jewish 17%, Christian and other 8%

Gaza Strip: Ethnic groups: Palestinian Arab and other 99.4%, Jewish 0.6%

Religions: Muslim (predominantly Sunni) 98.7%, Christian 0.7%, Jewish 0.6%